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The Elite QB Farce

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by CouchCoach, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. CouchCoach

    CouchCoach Well-Known Member

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    I've seen so much of that here. "Got to have an elite QB" and "can't get it done without that elite QB".

    The only thing I agree with is that the Cowboys do not have an elite QB and he probably won't ever be considered that.

    Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson, Watson all have been mentioned with as that old guard elite or the new guard. Mahomes is in that group and along with Rodgers, the only ones left in the playoffs and is Rodgers there because he's played elite this season or is it the RB and DE's? And the fact that Brees, Rodgers and Wilson only have one ring doesn't seem to matter.

    Did you catch Brees, Jackson, Wilson and Watson trying to lift their teams? Or did you catch Tannehill in his last two playoff games with <200 yards? Which is it better to have? The QB to lift the team or the team to support the QB? Ask Brady, Brees, Wilson, Jackson and Watson.

    This is not about Prescott, it is about every team has to build around the QB and Brees, Rodgers and Wilson are proof. Elway was elite and he wouldn't have any rings if not for a HC and RB and an offensive philosophical change..

    Roger and Troy had to have teams around them, same with Starr, Bradshaw, Montana and Brady wasn't that bad this season, the team around him wasn't the usual standard.

    It's one thing we've seen, different kinds of teams can do it different ways, there isn't just one template. Get that elite QB and ride the wave. This isn't baseball when they can ride a pitcher or two.

    I do not think if the Cowboys had any of those elite QB's this season, it would have been much different.
     
  2. mattjames2010

    mattjames2010 Well-Known Member

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    There are 3 QBs better than Prescott in the playoffs right now with the Titans getting hot on defense with a dominating ground game never seen in the NFL post-season.

    Yeah, good luck getting to the Super Bowl relying on outliers and a middling QB without an elite defense. Also the Super Bowls since 2010

    Brady x3
    Rodgers
    Eli and Peyton Manning
    Flacco
    Foles
    Wilson

    Go look up how Flacco and Foles had to play to get to the Super Bowl. Again, good luck with relying on outliers to win one. Also, good luck paying a middling QB elite QB money and thinking you can get a 2012 Ravens D that sticks around long enough to win one.
     
  3. Aviano90

    Aviano90 Go Seahawks!!!

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    Elite is one of the most misused terms to describe players. It’s handed out like candy on October 31st these days.
     
  4. CATCH17

    CATCH17 1st Round Pick

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    Overpaying the QB position hurts more then anything IMO.

    Rodgers is highly paid so maybe he can buck the trend of highly paid QB's winning a championship but he is an actual elite QB.
     
  5. numnuts23

    numnuts23 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed...you don't have to have an elite QB to win. However you also can't pay a non elite QB elite money and expect to win. That's the problem Dallas is facing right now.
     
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  6. Killerinstinct

    Killerinstinct Well-Known Member

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    The worst possible scenario is having an avg QB paid as an elite QB.
     
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  7. bewp7

    bewp7 Well-Known Member

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    yeah ur right there are definitely different ways to do it, but like u said even with the elite guys they need a team around them which is why the one thing u cannot do imo is fall into the trap of paying a non-elite quarterback like he is one! it’s hard enough to build a great roster around the qbs who actually deserve that type of money and cap hit!
     
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  8. boxer-rumble

    boxer-rumble Well-Known Member

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    I’d rather have an elite defense and running game along with an average to above average QB play. Only thing is, the QB we have wants 35mil/year.
     
  9. Oneiros

    Oneiros Well-Known Member

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    Would you really consider Garoppolo as being a better QB than Dak?

    I'm not sure I'd go that far. I would say that they're pretty even.

    The one thing Garoppolo has that Dak didn't this year was an elite defense and a team committed to running it down their opponents throats.

    But in terms of overall QB play I see him having slightly better pocket awareness than Dak has, also seems to rely on his legs a bit more than Dak has recently, and that's about it.

    This is in no way a knock on Garoppolo because I think he's a very good QB but I wouldn't exactly say that he's better.

    In fact, among a lot of 9ers fans locally that I speak with you'll hear many of the same criticisms of him as you would Dak but at the end of the day the common theme is that he just finds a way to win.
     
  10. Nav22

    Nav22 Well-Known Member

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    LOL there’s no universe in which 2019 Rodgers and Garoppolo were better QBs than Dak.

    You lose all credibility with nonsense like that.

    Give Dak an elite defense and give Rodgers/Garoppolo the mediocre, allergic-to-takeaways Cowboys defense and it’s a different story.

    Eli is a joke and Peyton was trash the year he won with Denver, I hope you’re smart enough to know that.
     
  11. keysersoze

    keysersoze Well-Known Member

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    I have been trying to get these Lames to understand this for a while now. I have never seen an ELITE QUARTERBACK win a super bowl based solely or even mainly on his throwing prowess. Can an elite quarterback help win a ring? Of course. But They have never won without a good running game, a solid Oline, an above average defense and most importantly Great Coaching. I’d prefer my quarterback to be an intricate part of what makes the entire offense effective. Whether he’s a bus driver, a runner, a scrambler, a dink and dunker, a gun slinger etc. As long as he plays his role in the team’s success I’m good with it. For instance. Troy Aikman wasn’t exactly elite and dynamic. But he was damned good at what he did. And that was enough to win championships.
     
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  12. Proof

    Proof Well-Known Member

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    Eli, Eli, Flacco, Foles and Payton. Half of the ten were not very good QBs. Peyton as a shell of his former self along for the ride.

    Not particularly outliers when it’s half.
     
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  13. keysersoze

    keysersoze Well-Known Member

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    :hammer:
     
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  14. mattjames2010

    mattjames2010 Well-Known Member

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    I watched enough of Garoppolo this year to know he has played better than Dak. He has shown he can win shootouts as well, we saw this with the Saints. I would even say Tannehill played better than Dak down the stretch, but I'll give him the edge here.
     
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  15. mattjames2010

    mattjames2010 Well-Known Member

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    Eli Manning was a 2x Super Bowl MVP and a first round talent. He made 2 throws that are iconic in the Super Bowl, and also played his best against highly ranked defenses in 2007 to get to a Super Bowl. He's also borderline HOF. Peyton Manning may not have had the arm strength anymore, but his intellect didn't go away. You think they would have won with freakin' Brock? Downplaying the Manning's is LOL worthy.

    And I already mentioned what Foles and Flacco had to do - Flacco benefited from a great defense and had one of the best post-season runs as a QB (go look at his numbers) and Foles is a cinderella story.
     
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  16. keysersoze

    keysersoze Well-Known Member

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    Garoppolo has a Defense who gets him the ball back in good position after he makes his usual mistakes. Even 49er fans know Dak is better.
     
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  17. Proof

    Proof Well-Known Member

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    Dak blows Garrapolo out of the water. Jimmy actually had a really solid year, on par with the years people complained most about Dak, and he’s hidden by his elite D. He’s also made 80 million dollars over the past three years, to Daks 2.
     
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  18. blueblood70

    blueblood70 Well-Known Member

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    do not need one but its nice to have , if you dont have one you have to be so much better in other areas.. however my moneys on the last elite one standing ie Mahomes..

    sure you can win other ways but not paying elite money to an average qb. you think Tannehill is demanding 34-40mil?

    thats the issue , not keeping dak but paying him less so we can build in other areas..

    it took some of those teams 4-5 bad years with high draft picks to get back where they are today..then the window small and you end up like the rams where you sold out to win before all the big contracts starting tearing down the team..

    I for sure think we can build around dak with an improved defense and special teams and a better coaching staff sure...BUT not if Dak is still wanting to be paid more then a goff or wentz..

    I saw a case keenum MN go 10-6 and go to the playoffs so sure Dak can but Case made 15mil and dak again is asking for too much..

    so yes you are correct with a possible 5 élite qbs coming a decade available to 32 teams there has to be other ways..Baltimore found it im not sure I call LJ elite QB vs an elite athlete that poses mismatch issues..

    thats what we need a coaching staff to utilize the less then elite talent to get us to the promise land..
    its a two way street..
     
  19. OmerV

    OmerV Well-Known Member

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    Something I've pointed out before is that those kind of "elite" QBs aren't as available to just go get as people seem to think. If they were, why would it take 20 years of drafts to fill out what is a very short list? Brady was drafted 20 years ago, Brees, 19 years ago, Rodgers 15 years ago … Even Wilson, who is one of the younger QBs on the list, is going into his 10th season. That's the bulk of the short list of elites, so obviously just going out and getting one isn't something a team can simply decide to make happen. And, realistically, the reason QB salaries have skyrocketed so much is because there aren't even enough top QB's, much less elite ones.

    By the way, I don't think Jackson and Watson have quite earned their way into elite status yet. They are the next ones just on the outside and ready to come in, but in my mind they aren't quite there. In my mind Mahomes is the only youngster that has earned his way in

    You made a great point about Elway. Another point to consider is that Flacco, Dilfer, Foles, and Brad Johnson have won Super Bowls, none of whom can be called elite.
     
  20. mattjames2010

    mattjames2010 Well-Known Member

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    LOL you mean like the defense that gave up 46 against the Saints, 31 against LA, 26 and 25 against Arizona, and 29 against the Falcons? Oh, he won every single one of those except the Falcons game, by the way.

    49ers defense got hit with injuries down the stretch and weren't playing great football. Jimmy G still won.
     
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