The Elite QB Farce

[Diehardblues]

Winning always matters. Fortunately the HOF also recognizes Elite talent without winning championships.

But when it comes to QB’s and the most polarized and important position winning probably is most important factor.

So , regardless if you throw a fluttering ball , not very many TD’s or yards but win multiple championships then you will have a greater opportunity to get in because we hold winning as the greatest achievement.

And why results matter. Otherwise you better throw for more yards and TD’s than the rest of the league. The combination of both of course places you in higher grounds of eligibility.

But that’s what I love about the HOF. It doesn’t distinguish who’s greater except for the description of 1st Ballot, etc.. Once you’re in, you’re in. Only about 320 have been inducted for a 100 years of the NFL. That’s quite an Elite group!!

 

[keysersoze]

He probably turns off penalties to win.

And makes his own team by creating players. Lol

 

[mattjames2010]

I was being silly, you're a dick. There's a difference. Hit right back? Lmao. Poor little fella.

And you're just wrong, as always. Hang it up.

 

[CouchCoach]

Good points on the Browns. That was a miss by me

Eagles gave up a future 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd and a 4th to move up switch places and got a 5th round pick thrown in

I’m not sure we could have, or should have, offered anything that would have been more attractive to the Browns than that jackpot

The Eagles were far more motivated and looking for a starting QB, the Cowboys still had Romo coming back and a QB pick was nothing more than a project, even if they'd taken Lynch. Moore was still the #2.

Just about everything they did that off season was with the idea of Romo being the QB1, up to taking the most well rounded RB in the draft. Part of Elliott's job would have been to protect Romo.

 

[Silverstar]

I don’t know if he “refuses” so much as he hasn’t had a good opportunity

As to Brees - he wasn’t very good ... at all ... his first three years. Records and stats clearly show Dak performed better in his first four years than Brees did. Brees didn’t make the Pro Bowl until year four and didn’t win a playoff game until year 6 after he joined a future HOF coach in New Orleans. It’s not fair to look back at a HOF QB career that spans 19 years, 14 of which were with Peyton and play “what if” when Dak has only had 4 years with Garrett.

when it comes to 2016, we would have taken Wentz at 4 if he hadn’t gone to Philly at 2

We were trying to trade up to to the top of the 2nd round for Lynch but Denver took him at 28.

The Cowboys were going to take the best QB they could get in the 2016 draft. This was the planned year that Jerry was going to find a replacement for Romo.

Here are the QB’s taken before we got Dak

Goff - 1
Wentz - 2
Lynch - 28
Hackenberg - 51
Brissett - 91
Kessler - 93
Cook - 100
Dak - 135

Neither the Rams not the Eagles were going to take our #4 overall for #1 or #2 because both teams desperately needed a QB. I suppose we could have given them the #4 overall (Zeke) and our 2017 1st to move up to #2 for Wentz (I use Jimmy’s draft value calculator which is the standard) but since the Eagles were desperate and already in love with Wentz it probably would have taken more.

With Romo still considered to have a couple of good years left we took a QB that we thought could develop under him, that being Dak. The timeline was just accelerated when Romo got hurt

2014 was Arguably Romo’s best year, the Cowboys went 12-3 and Romo made the pro bowl. No way we were drafting a QB in 2015 but that ended up being the year Romo only played 4 games, we went 4-12, and it became obvious we needed to look to the future at QB which was prompted the Cowboys plans for the 2016 draft. Good thing because Romo got hurt again That year and only played 1 game

I’d say we handled the 2016 draft pretty darn well considering our resources and the available QB pool.

Do you disagree?

Yes, because your take is borderline ridiculous for the simple fact that Jerry NEVER intended to draft a QB at #4 in 2016. Romo was coming back healthy as the starter and drafting a QB was not the priority. Jerry wanted to secure a backup QB for Romo with our second pick to groom for the future. It was always going to be either Zeke or Ramsey at #4...not Wentz! You act like Romo was in a wheelchair or something during that draft.

BTW, I never mentioned Dak, Romo or the 2016 draft in my post. So, if you were trying to read between the lines or whatever there you got it wrong.

 

[G2]

And you're just wrong, as always. Hang it up.

You keep following me little man. You can't stop, lol.

 

[Diehardblues]

The irony is Dak defenders using ‘surrounding team’ as the reason for JG and Tannehill’s success, but completely ignoring it for Dak. Dak gets all the excuses when they keep failing.

Even with Tannehill, the Titans pass blocking is bottom of the league. They’ve allowed like 56 sacks.

After all of these years on these forums it’s finally sinking into me. FAN forum.

Fans defend their guy to the hilt and will bash any and everyone in order to prop up their guy. That’s when it’s time for me to bail out cause I’m about the sum not individuals.

I had player crushes when I was a kid. I’d probably go to these extremes to defend Dandy or Roger. But these kids are young enough to be my grandsons. And probably some of the fans on this site. I really don’t have the temperament anymore for this.

This argument about HOF is best example I can think of. But we’ve had others before whether it’s bashing Troy, Jimmy, Landry, etc.

If we can’t agree on the basis of HOF inductees elite status there there is no basis we can all agree on which is sad because then it becomes all about being right or wrong to just prop up your argument or guy. Not a discussion that interest me. Later

 

[Kwyn]

Yes, because your take is borderline ridiculous for the simple fact that Jerry NEVER intended to draft a QB at #4 in 2016. Romo was coming back healthy as the starter and drafting a QB was not the priority. Jerry wanted to secure a backup QB for Romo with our second pick to groom for the future. It was always going to be either Zeke or Ramsey at #4...not Wentz! You act like Romo was in a wheelchair or something during that draft.

BTW, I never mentioned Dak, Romo or the 2016 draft in my post. So, if you were trying to read between the lines or whatever there you got it wrong.

I’m afraid you are mistaken. Wentz and Lynch were our targets that year. We missed on Wentz (I think he’ll be good) and lynch (thabk God)

 

[keysersoze]

Dak is a laughing stock. No these fans won’t..

I live here. They already have. Jimmy G makes them nervous. He’s gonna be blamed for any shortcomings. Luckily his defense can make up for his mistakes by getting him the ball back in good field position after his interceptions, sacks and fumbles. He has a strong arm. But that’s all.

 

[keysersoze]

The above takes away any credibility you may have had.

He had no credibility to begin with.

 

[Kwyn]

Yes, because your take is borderline ridiculous for the simple fact that Jerry NEVER intended to draft a QB at #4 in 2016. Romo was coming back healthy as the starter and drafting a QB was not the priority. Jerry wanted to secure a backup QB for Romo with our second pick to groom for the future. It was always going to be either Zeke or Ramsey at #4...not Wentz! You act like Romo was in a wheelchair or something during that draft.

BTW, I never mentioned Dak, Romo or the 2016 draft in my post. So, if you were trying to read between the lines or whatever there you got it wrong.

You said this

I think if you can't get your QB in the 1st round, then you trade to the top of the 2nd (like Chargers with Brees) and make sure you get the best QB left.
However, Jerry simply refuses to do that when drafting QB's, even though it's the most important position.

Can you imagine if Brees was a Cowboy all this time?

Each of my comments was a response to your points.

I addressed Brees and my comments pretty strongly rebuffed yours.

I addressed your easily tossed off comment about Jerry “never” doing anything to address QB with a fact based response.

I even went so far as to address your tossaway about getting to the top of the second round by discussing how they targeted Lynch.

Im wondering if maybe you don’t quite know what you’re posting which probably leaves many people trying to respond and make sense of it.

is that type of disconnect and confusion a common occurrence for you on the board?

 

[TWOK11]

Yes, he is. Watch more football.

By what objective metric?

 

[mattjames2010]

By what objective metric?

By the fact that he can beat winning teams with far less talent on offense than what Dak has. How did Dak look when Smith and Zeke went out? How did he look this year against good teams with far more talented WRs and an all-pro RB, and a top 5 offensive line when facing good teams?

Jimmy G won shootouts this year, so no, it wasn't just because of his defense. Dak compares to Carr.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Yes, because your take is borderline ridiculous for the simple fact that Jerry NEVER intended to draft a QB at #4 in 2016. Romo was coming back healthy as the starter and drafting a QB was not the priority. Jerry wanted to secure a backup QB for Romo with our second pick to groom for the future. It was always going to be either Zeke or Ramsey at #4...not Wentz! You act like Romo was in a wheelchair or something during that draft.

BTW, I never mentioned Dak, Romo or the 2016 draft in my post. So, if you were trying to read between the lines or whatever there you got it wrong.

Reports are Jerry really wanted Bosa in that draft and only took Zeke after charges selected him at 3. Some wanted Wentz so bad that they try and make it like that's what Jerry wanted

 

[TWOK11]

By the fact that he can beat winning teams with far less talent on offense than what Dak has. How did Dak look when Smith and Zeke went out? How did he look this year against good teams with far more talented WRs and an all-pro RB, and a top 5 offensive line when facing good teams?

Jimmy G won shootouts this year, so no, it wasn't just because of his defense. Dak compares to Carr.

Ah, the good old “eye test”

As I thought

 

[mattjames2010]

Ah, the good old “eye test”

As I thought

That isn't just the eye test, was Dak capable of beating winning teams this year consistently with a ton of help around him? I have a fact here, not an eye test.

Did Jimmy G win shootouts, dispelling the myth that he only got by due to the 49ers D (that was injured later in the season and gave up a lot of points)? Try again.

 

[TWOK11]

That isn't just the eye test, was Dak capable of beating winning teams this year consistently with a ton of help around him? I have a fact here, not an eye test.

Did Jimmy G win shootouts, dispelling the myth that he only got by due to the 49ers D (that was injured later in the season and gave up a lot of points)? Try again.

I asked for objective data and you give spurious round about arguments that essentially amount giving Garappolo credit for being on a better team.

 

[keysersoze]

That isn't just the eye test, was Dak capable of beating winning teams this year consistently with a ton of help around him? I have a fact here, not an eye test.

Did Jimmy G win shootouts, dispelling the myth that he only got by due to the 49ers D (that was injured later in the season and gave up a lot of points)? Try again.

Jimmy G squeaked out last minute wins by field goal because Kittle and Samuel broke tackles. Not because of some great heroics. Jimmy ain’t %#!t. Cut it out.

 

[Silverstar]

Each of my comments was a response to your points.

I addressed Brees and my comments pretty strongly rebuffed yours.

I addressed your easily tossed off comment about Jerry “never” doing anything to address QB with a fact based response.

I even went so far as to address your tossaway about getting to the top of the second round by discussing how they targeted Lynch.

Im wondering if maybe you don’t quite know what you’re posting which probably leaves many people trying to respond and make sense of it.

is that type of disconnect and confusion a common occurrence for you on the board?

Apparently, you have a reading comprehension problem.
Your comments to my original post were about comparing Brees first 4 years to Dak's first 4 years and so on, but here's the thing...I NEVER mentioned Dak in my post!!!
You decided to go off on some rant about the 2016 draft and how Jerry wanted Wentz at #4...NOT TRUE!
Jerry TRIED to move up and get Lynch? Well, it didn't happen because apparently Jerry REFUSES (key word) to do what it takes in terms of offering draft capital or players etc when it comes to getting QB's high in the draft...and that was my point.
Now, here you are patting yourself on the back because you think you "rebuffed" my original post in this thread (which was a response to another poster btw) is like a joke and just utter nonsense! I mean...don't you get that?
Here's my original post...read it again.

"Quincy was drafted at 53 and I don't really consider that to be a premium pick for a QB.
I think if you can't get your QB in the 1st round, then you trade to the top of the 2nd (like Chargers with Brees) and make sure you get the best QB left.
However, Jerry simply refuses to do that when drafting QB's, even though it's the most important position.

Can you imagine if Brees was a Cowboy all this time?"

Where did I mention Dak or Romo?
Where did I mention the 2016 draft at all?
When did I use the word "never" in my post?

When did Jerry trade up to draft a QB in the second round or the first round for that matter? It never happened dude...you want me to give Jerry his props for trying?
I don't know why you responded to my post above the way you did. I really think your the one that's disconnected and confused.

 

[mattjames2010]

I asked for objective data and you give spurious round about arguments that essentially amount giving Garappolo credit for being on a better team.

LOL I just gave objectivity! Stuff that can't be debated. Raw statistics that lack all context is not objective. What do you want? Do you want to use ESPN QBR? You know, the QBR that thought Trubisky was a top 3 QB last year?

Wins/losses and patterns you see Dak have against winning teams and good defenses is exactly what I'm going by lol

And his OFFENSE is not better. He doesn't have a Cooper, Gallup, Zeke, or a top 5 offensive line. His biggest weapon is Kittle, he has a top 15 offensive line, and a couple of nobodies as WRs.