I was just wondering if it's the older fans who see what I see in Dak

I guess having a party during a shutdown is sign of great leadership ...ohh yah

Dre11 said:

so he's the only one not scoring the td's? what about the wr drops, the line allowing sacks.

as far as combacks

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...tt-now-has-led-nine-fourth-quarter-comebacks/

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That was 16 month ago . That was not exactly a notable comeback , it was a back and forth game . Dak has no signature comeback anyone can recall that is worthy of mention .I can also credit that to the OL , RB, WR for many of these .

leeblair said:

I'm 53- almost 54 years old. I have been a fan of the Cowboys since the early 70's- when I was old enough to know about them.
I've seen the likes of Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Pat Haden, Danny White, Joe Montana, Brian Sipe, Dan Pastorini, Craig Morton, John Elway, Joe Theismann, Billy Kilmer, Ron Jaworski, Doug Williams, Troy Aikman, Warren Moon, and others like Brett Favre on their best and worst days.
It's not that Dak can't learn. He's a great athlete.
But I don't see in him the instincts of any of the quarterbacks I just mentioned in regards to leadership skills and making a team better.
I'm just curious if it's the older generation that sees what I see?
One thing Dak does better is that he doesn't throw many interceptions, but I am not sure if that comes from the fact that he strictly follows the route tree or is just more aware.
But he doesn't seem to have "it" when it comes to leadership.
But is it the older guys who see what I see?
Just curious.

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Same age here. I see what you're saying. But I'd hold off here a bit due to coaching. Romo didn't do much better under Garrett and I think he was a very good QB. Garrett was garbage. The one really good thing about Dak is that he is very good at protecting the ball and not throwing wild passes that lead to INTs. He'll hold the ball and take sacks before doing so.

I just have to nitpick here a little. Doug Williams and Brian Sipe? I love Doug Williams because he and his Commanders won me a king's ransom in that super bowl against the Broncos. But I didn't bet the Commanders because I thought Doug was better than Elway. Doug couldn't hold Elway's jock strap IMO. I bet the Commanders because I was getting 3 points with a team that was vastly superior to the broncos. A no brainer. To this day that line remains the worst in super bowl history IMO. It should have been Commanders minus double digits. That said, I though Doug was good. But I like Dak better than him or Sipe.

leeblair said:

I'm 53- almost 54 years old. I have been a fan of the Cowboys since the early 70's- when I was old enough to know about them.
I've seen the likes of Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Pat Haden, Danny White, Joe Montana, Brian Sipe, Dan Pastorini, Craig Morton, John Elway, Joe Theismann, Billy Kilmer, Ron Jaworski, Doug Williams, Troy Aikman, Warren Moon, and others like Brett Favre on their best and worst days.
It's not that Dak can't learn. He's a great athlete.
But I don't see in him the instincts of any of the quarterbacks I just mentioned in regards to leadership skills and making a team better.
I'm just curious if it's the older generation that sees what I see?
One thing Dak does better is that he doesn't throw many interceptions, but I am not sure if that comes from the fact that he strictly follows the route tree or is just more aware.
But he doesn't seem to have "it" when it comes to leadership.
But is it the older guys who see what I see?
Just curious.

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I'm about a year older.

I see a lack. Maybe it's what you mean by instincts.

I don't see a guy who reads the field like great QBs. His accuracy has improved a lot. He can run. He's durable. He's smart with the ball. But not a guy who sees the defense that well.

That probably does improve as the years go on. Romo says the game really slowed down for him in 2013. His 11th year in the league. Dak isn't all he will be yet. He made a big leap last year in his accuracy, and I think in his awareness of what the offense was doing. Still got a ways to go on the defense.

Keep in mind for all those guys you're remembering - you've seen them fully mature through their careers. Dak has miles to go before he sleeps.

The Fonz said:

I guess having a party during a shutdown is sign of great leadership ...ohh yah

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AAAAAAAAAAAAA

basel90 said:

Dak has way Too many questionable or flat out bad games at crucial times . He has to be doubted . Going 1-6 last season against winning teams is a horrendous look .
Last 3 years He had way too many games with no TDs ( New England , eagles , saints etc ) and the zero points against the colts in 2018 . Losses to the jets and bears last season. . He has flows that cannnot be ignored .
Great QBs don’t have the above on their resumes .

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That Colts game was just pathetic! But he has had quite a few really stinker performances and they always tend to come when Dallas really needs a win badly.

I’m in my mid 30s. Wasn’t alive for Staubach and was really young for Aikman. I coached a bit at the power conference level and have watched countless hours of film of the college and pro levels. As a hobby now that I’m in the real world I enjoy watching the all 22s or any other type of film I can get my hands on of the Cowboys. I’ve watched a ton of Dak’s film and I just don’t see a guy that has elite arm talent or elite anticipation. I see a guy who has worked hard on his fundamentals but those seem to go out the window when the pressure is on. Dak is a gamer and is at his best when things almost become playground ball. But I don’t think you can hang the hat of your franchise on someone like that. I like Dak, I root for Dak, and think we are stuck with him for better or worse. But I think we will have nothing to show for the huge contract once Dak’s career is in the rear view. But I hope I’m wrong and will gladly eat my words if Dak leads us to a title.

So the quick answer is no. I don’t think it’s an age thing.

Hadenough said:

That Colts game was just pathetic! But he has had quite a few really stinker performances and they always tend to come when Dallas really needs a win badly.

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Exactly . This is the most worrisome part of Dak’s career . No great or elite QB that I can recall has such a stigma after 4 years . I hope it is all jason Garrett’s offensive woes , but Dak at some stage will have to answer for these . No more hiding behind the garret excuse .

CowboysFaninHouston said:

listen up, and step a little closer to your speaker so you can hear better...the point I made is that Dak didn't quit...as the leader of the team, he didn't quit...that's your narrative. some players on the team quit. not entire 53....that's exaggeration from extreme fanatics similar to yourself.

if anything Dak kept the team fighting......the problem is you now are climbing up another angle....first he wasn't good, but that's been proven wrong, now his leadership is in question from a thread started by a very well known troll. now you are blaming him for quitting....

I blame coaching for most of what happened to this team. I blame coaching, bad calls for direct cause to several losses last year....

hopefully you sat close enough and I typed it really slow so you could read it slow, so you hopefully get it

what's with all the pent up anger and hatred? perhaps being locked down is causing you to go dilusional

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Still waiting on something to back up your claim that I said Dak quit. That faulty premise has been the basis for your rants making them irrelevant. Put up our shut up.

Now come here and give me hug then go get ready for school.

ClintDagger said:

I’m in my mid 30s. Wasn’t alive for Staubach and was really young for Aikman. I coached a bit at the power conference level and have watched countless hours of film of the college and pro levels. As a hobby now that I’m in the real world I enjoy watching the all 22s or any other type of film I can get my hands on of the Cowboys. I’ve watched a ton of Dak’s film and I just don’t see a guy that has elite arm talent or elite anticipation. I see a guy who has worked hard on his fundamentals but those seem to go out the window when the pressure is on. Dak is a gamer and is at his best when things almost become playground ball. But I don’t think you can hang the hat of your franchise on someone like that. I like Dak, I root for Dak, and think we are stuck with him for better or worse. But I think we will have nothing to show for the huge contract once Dak’s career is in the rear view. But I hope I’m wrong and will gladly eat my words if Dak leads us to a title.

So the quick answer is no. I don’t think it’s an age thing.

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Good eyes

ClintDagger said:

I’m in my mid 30s. Wasn’t alive for Staubach and was really young for Aikman. I coached a bit at the power conference level and have watched countless hours of film of the college and pro levels. As a hobby now that I’m in the real world I enjoy watching the all 22s or any other type of film I can get my hands on of the Cowboys. I’ve watched a ton of Dak’s film and I just don’t see a guy that has elite arm talent or elite anticipation. I see a guy who has worked hard on his fundamentals but those seem to go out the window when the pressure is on. Dak is a gamer and is at his best when things almost become playground ball. But I don’t think you can hang the hat of your franchise on someone like that. I like Dak, I root for Dak, and think we are stuck with him for better or worse. But I think we will have nothing to show for the huge contract once Dak’s career is in the rear view. But I hope I’m wrong and will gladly eat my words if Dak leads us to a title.

So the quick answer is no. I don’t think it’s an age thing.

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Great summary Clint. Its a fine line between protecting the ball (which is great) and not making plays because you don't throw the ball when you should.

Since you watch a lot of film I would be interested to know if you ever chart his passing attempts. I charted a number of games and came up with an average of around 25% of his passes were bad to horrible. I believe his best game was still in the 12-15% range. His worst was in the mid 30's. In contrast, I charted Brees and Wilson and found that they were in the 5-7% even on their average to below average games. That is just too inefficient for the offense to sustain drives. I believe a lot of it is because he doesn't have great anticipation and that he doesn't trust himself to make the throw unless he has no pressure & he sees it wide open. If he could get this part of his game in better shape, then I would feel more comfortable that the team can be successful (not just regular season wins) with him at QB.

Vtwin said:

Still waiting on something to back up your claim that I said Dak quit. That faulty premise has been the basis for your rants making them irrelevant. Put up our shut up.

Now come here and give me hug then go get ready for school.

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indirectly blaming Dak for team quitting....

"...... Does not excuse in any way the Dak "lead" team quitting with all their goals still in reach"....

I mean come on dude, why are you keep spinning trying to pigeon hole and blame him for not being able to lift an entire team, coaches, and a disasterous organization and blaming him for the loss, more specifically the eagles game and blaming the entire season on him..... if it walks like a duck, acts likes a duck, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck...well...you know the rest....

we have now gone from Dak sucks, because his stats are over blown, to he needs a ton of support to succeed, to he went 8-8, to his stats are over rated, to he has no leadership, to he didn't lift a team that quit on the coaches and organization to not sure what's next....

all of this because the contract negotiations is for $35M year and then all of a sudden the hate and anger towards him went over the top....if the contract negotiation was for 28M a year you would be here, singing his praises, talking up his leadership, how he was done wrong, the situation he was put in was impossible to over come, etc......

in fact many of the same dak detractors, were singing his praises last year (while I criticized him last summer and wanted to wait on a contract), given he was not making much money and not complaining and many of the same Dak detractors wanted him signed last summer and now, because of 3,4M extra in contract talks, he has become a villain to the dak detractors, including some calling him a scrub and not worthy of starting in this league behind any other current starting QB

and you here, trying to be oh so smart..."oh, no...show me a direct quote I said Dak quit this and Dak quit that...""

come on dude...grow up...grow some balls.....say what you mean and not dance around like a little kid trying not to get "trapped" and playing word games.

Ive been a Cowboys fan since the mid 70s when I was a little kid. I dont hate on Dak for the sake of it, but, I do see big flaws. And, lets face it, he is the QB for the Dallas Cowboys. If he is on the Jets its a different story. He is going to get much more attention on the Cowboys and the "industry standard" for players and coaches is to praise each other in the press. So he will get lots of praise, but IMO he is middle of the pack in terms of talent. Will win some and make some great plays, but isnt elite. Yes the coaching sucked, but Dak has accuracy and timing issues. For the first few years he had one of the best lines to stand there and wait for someone to run their route, turn around and wave at him to throw. Hes gotten a little better there but I had binged watched old early 90s Cowboys games recently and the difference is stark. Aikman's timing and accuracy were ridiculous.

The Fonz said:

I guess having a party during a shutdown is sign of great leadership ...ohh yah

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Believing it was anything unlawful or a lack thereof of leadership to Professional Football Team is a sign of Dak Hate Syndrome

I mean, the really old time Cowboys fans were contemptible for how they treated Don Meredith, so I don't know that there's a generation gap here. The Dak debate seems more like a case of "same as it ever was."

To this day, Cowboys teammates say they regret not accepting more of the fan and media blame that was mostly directed at Meredith when the '60s Cowboys fell short.

Longtime local broadcaster and CBS commentator Verne Lundquist on Monday recalled interviewing Meredith for the Cowboys' postgame radio show after a particularly unmerciful shower of boos on the quarterback, who earned 1966 NFL Player of the Year honors.

"I don't get these people," Lundquist recalled Meredith blurting. "Do they really think I'm not trying?"

Qcard said:

Believing it was anything unlawful or a lack thereof of leadership to Professional Football Team is a sign of Dak Hate Syndrome

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well that is bad leadership regardless ..I don't hate him or anyone else but i don't think he is qualified to lead this team with out surrounding him with all pro at every position... .Hello Chicago game Hello last game with Philly?
Andy Dalton is almost the same but cheaper so the extra money can be spent on other players.

The Fonz said:

well that is bad leadership regardless ..

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Characterizing this made up issue as bad leadership is YOUR OPINION.
It is a DUMB opinion but nonetheless an opinion

The Fonz said:

I don't hate him or anyone else but i don't think he is qualified to lead this team with out surrounding him with all pro at every position... .Hello Chicago game Hello last game with Philly?

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Well it is my opinion that your characterization is DUMB...so any progression of your opinion is bad reasoning...

But most rational fans don't judge a QB on one season. It takes at least 3-4 seasons to determine Franchise Tag exclusive or Non-exclusive.
If we use your DUMB logic.....Andy Dalton can have one good season with Cowboys and demand a raise....get real Hater

The Fonz said:

Andy Dalton is almost the same but cheaper so the extra money can be spent on other players.

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Andy Dalton. Is cheap because he's a FAILED Franchise QB
He has 118 Career INTs in 8 seasons and 14 Career Pick 6s

You'd have us watch McCarthy try to hide a $3M QB.....

Dak Hater.....

leeblair said:

I'm 53- almost 54 years old. I have been a fan of the Cowboys since the early 70's- when I was old enough to know about them.
I've seen the likes of Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Pat Haden, Danny White, Joe Montana, Brian Sipe, Dan Pastorini, Craig Morton, John Elway, Joe Theismann, Billy Kilmer, Ron Jaworski, Doug Williams, Troy Aikman, Warren Moon, and others like Brett Favre on their best and worst days.
It's not that Dak can't learn. He's a great athlete.
But I don't see in him the instincts of any of the quarterbacks I just mentioned in regards to leadership skills and making a team better.
I'm just curious if it's the older generation that sees what I see?
One thing Dak does better is that he doesn't throw many interceptions, but I am not sure if that comes from the fact that he strictly follows the route tree or is just more aware.
But he doesn't seem to have "it" when it comes to leadership.
But is it the older guys who see what I see?
Just curious.

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I am 47.

You have named a diverse group of QBs. Some of those have had some good traits and some bad traits. Some were able to overcome the negatives. Also time has a way of removing some of the memory and leaves us with a singular story.

For example. I recently watched an NFL network special on the 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers. HoF QB Terry Bradshaw played so poorly in the beginning of that season that he was replaced as starter.

Now back to your initial question about Dak:

I see a great deal of leadership in Dak. He also demonstrates incredible tenacity. Does he have some limitations? Yes. He doesn't have elite arm strength. His mechanics can get out of whack and that at times affects his accuracy. He is incredibly strong though and has a nice ability to move in and out of the pocket. He does appear to have some reluctance to throw a wr open.

But in terms of leadership, he appears to have that "it" factor to me, or at least as much as some of the QB you listed.

But there's a wide range of skills in that group. So no, I don't see what you're seeing. Maybe I am too young, but hell I've watched a lot of football in my 47 years.

From my vantage point, Dak is only as good as the players around him.

Qcard said:

Characterizing this made up issue as bad leadership is YOUR OPINION.
It is a DUMB opinion but nonetheless an opinion
Well it is my opinion that your characterization is DUMB...so any progression of your opinion is bad reasoning...

But most rational fans don't judge a QB on one season. It takes at least 3-4 seasons to determine Franchise Tag exclusive or Non-exclusive.
If we use your DUMB logic.....Andy Dalton can have one good season with Cowboys and demand a raise....get real Hater


Andy Dalton. Is cheap because he's a FAILED Franchise QB
He has 118 Career INTs in 8 seasons and 14 Career Pick 6s

You'd have us watch McCarthy try to hide a $3M QB.....

Dak Hater.....

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are u rooting for Dak or the Cowboys? since u are hating my point of view i see that a logical hate too so u could be labeled as a hater you should be above all of that ... you can disagree with someone but u have no right to see your point as the superior one