Comparing Zeke to HOF RBs

Bobhaze

Bobhaze

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I obviously didn’t do a very good job of setting this post up...but my intention was to see where most fans think Zeke will end up among some of the greats. It’s seems like many people just see the name Zeke and start firing “agenda” opinions, which is fine...I guess. But I am curious if anyone had an opinion associated with the info presented- such as how Zeke will end up vs the greats.
 
aria

aria

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Bobhaze said:
I obviously didn’t do a very good job of setting this post up...but my intention was to see where most fans think Zeke will end up among some of the greats. It’s seems like many people just see the name Zeke and start firing “agenda” opinions, which is fine...I guess. But I am curious if anyone had an opinion associated with the info presented- such as how Zeke will end up vs the greats.
Click to expand...
As far as where he will end up among the greats in regards to total yards, he could do that provided he continues carrying the ball as much as he has or has a very lengthy career AND continues to play behind a top 5-10 O line. I’m honestly surprised the O line has held up as long as it has. He has been, bar none, the most fortunate RB in the league for the last 4 years and there are still guys putting up better stats with much worse O lines. If and when he starts playing behind a mediocre O line, his individual talents won’t be good enough to allow him to put up the same numbers and he’ll be exposed.

Personally, I’d be curious to know how many of those other RB’s had as good as an O line as he has had, assuming it keeps up, because I think most of those guys had a lot of individual talents that made them great, not just their O line whereas zeke wouldn’t even be in the HOF conversation if it weren’t for his O line. As I’ve pointed out several times, outside of total yards which is directly related to carries, zeke does not have HOF statistics or the “it” factor to make it to the hall.

*Yes, I know Emmitt had a great O line for part of his career but anyone who watched him play also saw how much better he was than zeke in most areas.
 
Bobhaze

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If Zeke has 4 more rushing years like his first 4 years, at aged 29, he will have 10,808 yards, making him 23rd on the all time rushing list. That’s great but is it elite?

In other words, Zeke will have to put forth some better years than he’s had so far to make the HOF. I certainly hope he will. The next two- three years will probably define whether or not he’s truly a great back. We will see.
 
Kingofholland

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Outside of not generating big runs and a few drops last season hard to complain about Zeke. Personally I think we're watching a back that will post at least 12k+ career rushing yards.

Let's be clear though Zeke isn't a speed back, he's a power runner with good agility and adequate speed. Decent comparison is Edgerrin James who didn't post a run longer than 40 yards after his rookie season but had 6 very productive NFL seasons and is now a hall of famer. I believe Zeke has more upside but fans have to stop expecting McCaffrey or Barkley type highlight plays. Totally different runners.

My advice to the Cowboys? Be smarter with Zeke's snaps. He played 84% of snaps last season but had about the same number of touches his rookie year playing 224 less snaps. Even if you said you're going to give Zeke 10 less snaps a game you probably get a fresher Zeke and more production. Then you get Pollard on the field for 10 more chances to hit that home run play everyone is expecting.
 
quickccc

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DFWJC said:
I think you may be underappreciating the totality of Gore's career.

He didn't just grind out yards by showing up every week--which in and of itself would be good in a Franco Harris sort of way.

But instead, he actually has a career yards per carry average HIGHER than Emmitt.
Over that long of a career......That says he was may more than some think

So he's the 3rd all-time leading rusher (may even make it to 2nd) who also has averaged 4.3 ypc over an entre career.

2010's All-Decade Team
2006 All Pro (1695 rushing 485 receiving)

He's in...imo
Click to expand...

Gore gotta be a A Football Life or 30 for 30 incoming documentary in the making. All these years ...All these yards, and so various NFL teams ..and being 3rd All time surpassing so many umpteens of HOFers that has gone

He's not exciting and no one really follows him, he rarely makes the highlight reel ...he probably has
the least All pros and pro bowls of any HOF candidate in consideration.
This isn't Jerome Bettis or Earl Campbell, with rare combination of overwhelming size, brutal power, surprising burst.

Never led NFL in rushing, He's methodical but yet he keeps churning, he keeps compiling rushing
yards to compare with the top all timers, and he keeps passing upon teams after teams like a journeyman, but
yet he keeps compiling the yards,. ,,,, every team gears up, scheme -plans and is frighten of a Dickerson, Sanders, Bettis, Campbell, Faulk, Emmitt, etc, but you dont hear of players and teams rave out of fright
vs Gore ....... he is the game ultimate underrated marvel, imo.

:rolleyes:
 
Redball Express

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Bobhaze said:
Zeke Elliott has had an outstanding 4 year career to date. He will start the 2020 season at age 25. So far, he has rushed for 5,405 yards, averaging 1,351 yds per season. He currently sits at 115th in the NFL all time rushing list, and 4th all time Cowboys rusher behind Emmitt Smith, Tony Dorsett and Don Perkins.

The list of NFL RBs who achieve greatness after 7 years of toting a pigskin is not very long. Very, very few RBs even play after their 30th birthday much less excel. In fact, I have divided most of the great RBs into 3 categories of success:

I. The Longevity Group- the few great RBs that played very well all the way into their 30s- I call them the Longevity Group. Incredibly durable and productive for many, many years. Well past 30.
  • Emmitt Smith
  • Tony Dorsett
  • Walter Payton
  • John Henry Johnson
  • John Riggins
  • Marcus Allen
  • Curtis Martin
  • Adrian Peterson
  • Frank Gore
Everyonet on this list except Gore and Peterson are HOFers, and they both will be in a few years. This is elite territory. All had at least two 1,000 yard seasons after 30. Will Zeke make it to this level? I say it’s doubtful because of his aggressive style of running.

II. Late 20’s Group- Then there are those RBs who have been great but peaked before 30. I call them the Late 20s Group because they all peaked at before aged 30. Some played after 30, but never had big seasons. All great but not as much longevity as the prior group.
  • Jim Brown- retired at 29 at his absolute peak.
  • Larry Czonka
  • Franco Harris
  • Barry Sanders- had a great season at 30, then retired.
  • OJ Simpson
  • Eric Dickerson
  • Thurman Thomas
  • LaDainian Tomlinson
  • Jerome Bettis
  • Marshall Faulk
  • Edgerrin James
There are a few others but you get the idea. All of these players are in the Hall of Fame, but had peaked at or before 30. This is the type of career I think Zeke will have. Great, possibly HOF. But peaked before 30.

III. The Great Short Timers- these are all great players who were absolute stars but injuries shortened or ended their careers. They all had monsters seasons, but their career was like a bottle rocket.
  • Gayle Sayers
  • Bo Jackson
  • Billy Sims
  • Terrell Davis
  • William Andrews
Sayers and TDavis made the HOF despite careers shortened by injury. The others were great players that made a huge splash then faded.

Of these three groups, I see Zeke having a career like the second group. The guys who peak in their late 20s. I don’t know if Zeke will be a HOFer, but he has a chance if he takes care of his body and avoids injury.

It will be fun to see how the next 4-5 seasons go for him because he will probably peak or decline somewhere in there.
Click to expand...
What scared me?

Seen everyone play except John Henry Johnson.

I am suddenly feeling very tired.

:omg:
 
cern

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aria said:
Well then you don’t want zeke, his short yardage success is a big myth, he’s not even top 10 in most situations and he sucks in the red zone. It’s all good though, thankfully we didn’t pay him the most ever for a RB at the time because he sat out with 2 years left on his contract. Jerry is smart like that. We could have paid a guy like CJ Anderson near the vet minimum to have equal or better success in those situations.

Scroll down to look at his short yardage success.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/
Click to expand...
I feel pretty confident zeke will get the first on 3rd and short most times. And just having him lined up in the backfield in those situations opens up other possibilities.
 

buybuydandavis

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DFWJC said:
I think you may be underappreciating the totality of Gore's career.

He didn't just grind out yards by showing up every week--which in and of itself would be good in a Franco Harris sort of way.

But instead, he actually has a career yards per carry average HIGHER than Emmitt.
Over that long of a career......That says he was may more than some think

So he's the 3rd all-time leading rusher (may even make it to 2nd) who also has averaged 4.3 ypc over an entre career.

2010's All-Decade Team
2006 All Pro (1695 rushing 485 receiving)

He's in...imo
Click to expand...

Pro Football Reference doesn't have him as All Pro in 2006, although that was a very good season.

A good back with one very good season, no rings, but a long, productive career.
 
quickccc

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Kingofholland said:
Outside of not generating big runs and a few drops last season hard to complain about Zeke. Personally I think we're watching a back that will post at least 12k+ career rushing yards.

Let's be clear though Zeke isn't a speed back, he's a power runner with good agility and adequate speed. Decent comparison is Edgerrin James who didn't post a run longer than 40 yards after his rookie season but had 6 very productive NFL seasons and is now a hall of famer. I believe Zeke has more upside but fans have to stop expecting McCaffrey or Barkley type highlight plays. Totally different runners.

My advice to the Cowboys? Be smarter with Zeke's snaps. He played 84% of snaps last season but had about the same number of touches his rookie year playing 224 less snaps. Even if you said you're going to give Zeke 10 less snaps a game you probably get a fresher Zeke and more production. Then you get Pollard on the field for 10 more chances to hit that home run play everyone is expecting.
Click to expand...

i guess you and i see Zeke differently.
Backs with just " adequate " speed don't post 83 yard and 72 yard TD screens, you don't see 60 yard TD runs as we saw him make in 2016 as a rookie.

what made zeke special enough to make him the 4th overall pick in 2016, was his combination of size, power, one cut vision, receiving skills and breakaway home run speed, plus he is a heckuva blitz-blocker.
- NFL.com had him compared to Edgrin James so i'm guessing that's where you're James to Zeke

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ezekiel-elliott/3219454c-4c28-9284-cdcc-74694c8d1749

i don't expect zeke to have barkley like elusiveness, he won't make a number of defenders miss and whiff in the open field as a Barkley does. And that's both runner and receiver.
Like an Adrian Peterson, he's a one cut runner . He gets a deep hand off , he feels for hole and opening, make that one cut accordingly and boom he's gone to the house. ..
..
That's what a Peterson did,, that's also what kind of ball barrier zeke is. Also several defensive players have
said how zeke punishes you and wears you down as a ball carrier. He's an angry runner who takes on tacklers
and has such powerful, hard churning load that he is always moving forward.
And underrated is his terrific knack and competitiveness for the goal line end zone.

But this zeke version does not have that splash run speed that he came in with at 2016, and we have to get that back.plus better scheme design for him with deep hand offs from center vs these RPO draw plays we went way too much, imo.
 
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https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...las-cowboys-offensive-line-is-the-best-around

Steelers Ryan Shazier tells everyone why the Cowboys offensive line is the best around


Linebacker Ryan Shazier pays some heavy compliments to the Cowboys offensive line and running game.
by Dave Halprin Jul 20, 2017, 2:00pm EDT

Ryan Shazier is a linebacker for the Pittsburgh Steelers. He’s also a guy that could have been a Cowboy. The Dallas front office coveted Shazier in the 2014 draft, but the Steelers had the pick directly in front of the Cowboys and snatched him up. The Cowboys did pretty well anyway, picking up All-World guard Zack Martin.

Shazier has an article up at The Players’ Tribune about the five toughest guys he’s faced in the NFL. It starts out talking about Tyron Smith and how he is one of the toughest he’s ever faced, but quickly morphs into a gushing compliment about the Cowboys offensive line, and Ezekiel Elliott, too.

Shazier on Zeke Elliott:

" As a linebacker, when you get heavy guys like Zeke and Le’Veon in open space, they run so hard that you don’t even want to tackle them as the game goes on. Every tackle costs you a little bit of punishment. Zeke is a heavy, heavy, heavy runner, and he wears defenses down.
We’ve noted how physical a runner Zeke is, even though people usually talk about his agility or vision. Zeke will punish defenders, and defenders around the league are taking notice."

It’s nice to read an unfiltered opinion of the Cowboys offensive line and running game from a player who knows.
 
quickccc

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With the Cowboys taking on a more passing approach as they seem to do under Kellen Moore and figure to
do under WCO pass oriented McCarthy, the attack may not be led by a run oriented attack as the
past years under zeke.

But it's not just out of the question as even the aforementioned Edgrin James still has led the NFL in rushing, despite Colts being clearly led by Peyton Manning pass attack.

But all indications zeke won't be ask to be grind and pound under McCarthy as he was asked to do under Garrett.
i thought the previous coaching was insistent on trying to bulk him up and mold him into an Emmitt type ground game and less the splash type he was in 2016. ..imo.
i had several issues with how Zeke was handled by the past coaching staff but that's another story.

If he can afford the crushing type ACL injuries that James and Peterson went through at some point of their careers, return in top conditioning form he was in 2016 and take less physical pounding vs previous years, he will;; have a lengthy and productive career as those aforementioned Hall of Famer.

i'm just interested to see if we will continue to get a Curtis Martin methodical runner or a return to the Adrian Peterson type player
 
John813

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Zeke could make it if he remains durable and gets a lot of carries. Volume type production.
But what may doom him is the salary cap from getting that volume over time.

It's the NFL, Not For Long, and if coaches/FO think they could replace a 27(in the future) year old back with thousands of touches with a guy making 1mil a year from the 2nd round, then his career may not last as long here. Especially if he slows down some more and/or he loses his backers in the FO.
Once he becomes a FA, he could bounce around team to team, where they may not value the run game as much as Garrett leaned on it, or the traditional bellcow approach.

Another 4 years, or 8 years total, is a super long life for a RB to stay on one team. Especially when their cap hit isn't a bargain.
 
DFWJC

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buybuydandavis said:
Pro Football Reference doesn't have him as All Pro in 2006, although that was a very good season.

A good back with one very good season, no rings, but a long, productive career.
Click to expand...

He was 2nd team All Pro
Maybe they only list 1st team?
Then also 5 Pro Bowls....I get that ProBowls are weird, but far less so for RBs than QBs

I dont care either way on Gore, just giving an opionion.
3rd all-time leading risher
Very good receiver
And one of the very best ever pass protecting RBs
All Decade Team
 
TexasHillbilly

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aria said:
I’ll NEVER let up on this chump until he no longer wears a Cowboys uniform which couldn’t be soon enough. I think most people have accepted that, lol.
Click to expand...
Not sure about this. I think Zeke still has plenty of juice left and he is dangerous catching passes out of the backfield. He still has good vision and I think if he doesn't run the ball 30+ times a game it will probably help his longevity as a player. Maybe he needs to grow up and watch the off field antics but he is still darn good. jmho

He's also not going anywhere according to his contract. As long as he produces, he will be a wearing a Cowboy uniform.
 
aria

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TexasHillbilly said:
Not sure about this. I think Zeke still has plenty of juice left and he is dangerous catching passes out of the backfield. He still has good vision and I think if he doesn't run the ball 30+ times a game it will probably help his longevity as a player. Maybe he needs to grow up and watch the off field antics but he is still darn good. jmho

He's also not going anywhere according to his contract. As long as he produces, he will be a wearing a Cowboy uniform.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I agree with a decent amount of this.
 
SteveTheCowboy

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CowboyRoy said:
Say whatever you want about Zeke his career has gone downhill since his rookie year.

Its abundantly obvious that his rookie success was a product of the best Oline in football.

Zeke simply isn't as good as we all thought he was. It was fools gold. And on top of it all the guy is a immature moron that is anything but a leader for this team.

He needs LOTS of carries to be productive. When it comes to dominating games and making big plays it rarely happens.

But yah, he is tough and he is a good blocker. :muttley:
Click to expand...


To be fair...he's had some issues. What player was hounded by GODell? He should have never received a suspension, let alone SIX freaking games and you know it. The holdout? I have no excuse for it. Coming in not prepared? I have no excuse for that.

This "number of carries" thing you use as your whole basis...is BS. Of COURSE he needs carries. That's the way a good running game works. You beat them and pound them into submission. Zeke has always worked this way....he may have 45 yards in the first half....but 145 at the end of the game. That's how a good big RB works. 2016 TEAM success is PROOF!

Let's look at Emmitt's "number of carries":

91 - 365
92 - 373
94 - 368
95 - 377
96 - 327
98 - 319
99 - 329

Zeke:
16 - 322
17 - 242
18 - 304
19 - 301

Hmmm...is Emmitt a great back? Because of number of carries? Of course he is. So is Zeke. I've told you this before, and I know I can't convince you of anything, but I can at last show other people how ridiculous your notion is. There certainly could be some OTHER reason for you to hate him...but not this.
 
gjkoeppen

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Bobhaze said:
Zeke Elliott has had an outstanding 4 year career to date. He will start the 2020 season at age 25. So far, he has rushed for 5,405 yards, averaging 1,351 yds per season. He currently sits at 115th in the NFL all time rushing list, and 4th all time Cowboys rusher behind Emmitt Smith, Tony Dorsett and Don Perkins.

Of these three groups, I see Zeke having a career like the second group. The guys who peak in their late 20s. I don’t know if Zeke will be a HOFer, but he has a chance if he takes care of his body and avoids injury.

It will be fun to see how the next 4-5 seasons go for him because he will probably peak or decline somewhere in there.
Click to expand...


Here's something that you failed to mention about the HOF'ers you listed. None of them had a 6 game suspension. Supposedly off the field actions are not to be considered for entrance into the HOF but suspensions are. Also how many of those other players had rushing yards per season continue to get smaller and smaller each season 6 years before turning 30. Elliott had a great rookie season in 2016 with 1631 yards but since then in 2017 a 6 game suspension, in 2018 he had 1434 yards and in 2019 he had 1357. Started at 1631 yards and now at 1357 yards. That's a downward slide. Now Elliott is still young enough to turn things around but so far based on what Elliott has done the HOF is not a real possibility.
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