Twitter: Trysten vs Neville

Creeper · Jun 30, 2020

I do not expect Gallimore to be any better than Maliek Collins was for Dallas.

The biggest difference between Gallimore and Hill is character. Gallimore is a hard worker and he wants to get better. From reports out of Dallas, the same cannot be said about Hill. To me, this is the one trait that will make Gallimore a better player than Hill, if reports are true.

BAT · Jun 30, 2020

stasheroo said:
The most important attribute will be between the ears.

And work ethic.

big dog cowboy · Jun 30, 2020

xwalker said:
Trysten Hill

The problem with Hill has never been lack of effort.

The problem has been difficultly adapting to change and implemented the exact techniques the coaches are trying to get him to implement.

His 1st college coaching staff loved him as player and described him as a "high motor" player.

His 2nd college D-Coordinator also loved his abilities and "high motor". (The 2nd Head Coach didn't like him).

Marinelli said repeatedly that Hill was a "high motor" player in practice but just wasn't implementing the style/techniques that they were coaching him to use.

The basic issue is that both the 2nd college DC and Marinelli wanted him to be a pass rushing 3tech but Hill had been coached to be a run defending 3-4 NT by his original college coaches.

Fans jumped on the narrative that he is lazy because of 1 incident where he and another player were sent home for something that happened in a meeting (Either not paying attention or falling asleep).

What fans fail to realize is that some of the most intense on-the-field players in NFL history were not very good in the classroom (Charles Haley...).

Hill showed great effort in the preseason games and played as many or more snaps than any of the DLinemen.

His biggest issue was that he had no clue how to play vs Zone Run Blocking (Unfortunately neither did Marinelli...).

They had him practice at 3tech all off-season and that's where he played in the preseason games.

In the games he did play during the season, they primarily played him at 1tech.

Overall he looked decent when he did play during the season.

He had some quality snaps on run plays where he got a good push on the OL and made the tackle.

He had one play where he almost hit the QB before the handoff to the RB.

He had actually penetrated to that depth before the handoff but was about a foot too far to the side.

That play showed a physical ability that very few 300+ pound players possess.

The question with Hill is whether he can "Take Coaching".

Marinelli was "old school" but he often seemed to speak in riddles and seemed a bit cryptic at times.

New DL coach Jim Tomsula is more of a Caveman. The season he was Head Coach for the 49ers (2015) I nicknamed him Caveman in discussions here at CZ.

His message to players will be very literal based on his press conferences as 49ers HC. He won't be cryptic or nuanced.

Despite being a Caveman, Tomsula has been regarded as a "players coach" and in tune with modern players need to check social media and those types of issues.

Much like Wade Phillips, Tomsula is a quality defensive coach but should never have been a Head Coach.

GREAT post.

Dreski · Jun 30, 2020

xwalker said:
Trysten Hill

The problem with Hill has never been lack of effort.

The problem has been difficultly adapting to change and implemented the exact techniques the coaches are trying to get him to implement.

His 1st college coaching staff loved him as player and described him as a "high motor" player.

His 2nd college D-Coordinator also loved his abilities and "high motor". (The 2nd Head Coach didn't like him).

Marinelli said repeatedly that Hill was a "high motor" player in practice but just wasn't implementing the style/techniques that they were coaching him to use.

The basic issue is that both the 2nd college DC and Marinelli wanted him to be a pass rushing 3tech but Hill had been coached to be a run defending 3-4 NT by his original college coaches.

Fans jumped on the narrative that he is lazy because of 1 incident where he and another player were sent home for something that happened in a meeting (Either not paying attention or falling asleep).

What fans fail to realize is that some of the most intense on-the-field players in NFL history were not very good in the classroom (Charles Haley...).

Hill showed great effort in the preseason games and played as many or more snaps than any of the DLinemen.

His biggest issue was that he had no clue how to play vs Zone Run Blocking (Unfortunately neither did Marinelli...).

They had him practice at 3tech all off-season and that's where he played in the preseason games.

In the games he did play during the season, they primarily played him at 1tech.

Overall he looked decent when he did play during the season.

He had some quality snaps on run plays where he got a good push on the OL and made the tackle.

He had one play where he almost hit the QB before the handoff to the RB.

He had actually penetrated to that depth before the handoff but was about a foot too far to the side.

That play showed a physical ability that very few 300+ pound players possess.

The question with Hill is whether he can "Take Coaching".

Marinelli was "old school" but he often seemed to speak in riddles and seemed a bit cryptic at times.

New DL coach Jim Tomsula is more of a Caveman. The season he was Head Coach for the 49ers (2015) I nicknamed him Caveman in discussions here at CZ.

His message to players will be very literal based on his press conferences as 49ers HC. He won't be cryptic or nuanced.

Despite being a Caveman, Tomsula has been regarded as a "players coach" and in tune with modern players need to check social media and those types of issues.

Much like Wade Phillips, Tomsula is a quality defensive coach but should never have been a Head Coach.

I’m excited to see what changes the new coaching staff brings. I’m most excited about Tomsula! Hopefully he brings good change for our DLine

gimmesix · Jun 30, 2020

xwalker said:
Hill showed great effort in the preseason games and played as many or more snaps than any of the DLinemen.

His biggest issue was that he had no clue how to play vs Zone Run Blocking (Unfortunately neither did Marinelli...).

They had him practice at 3tech all off-season and that's where he played in the preseason games.

In the games he did play during the season, they primarily played him at 1tech.

Overall he looked decent when he did play during the season.

He had some quality snaps on run plays where he got a good push on the OL and made the tackle.

He had one play where he almost hit the QB before the handoff to the RB.

He had actually penetrated to that depth before the handoff but was about a foot too far to the side.

That play showed a physical ability that very few 300+ pound players possess.

I agree with your comments that the take on him that he's lazy is inaccurate. His problems lie with technique. His college film and his play for us show two primary issues IMO. The first one is he has a tendency to come up high out of his stance and not keep his base squared. This allows offensive linemen to get into his body and turn and guide him out of the hole or wide of his target. The second is that he has a problem reading plays and redirecting himself. He tends to try to blast off and just go without locating the ball and having a plan for how to get there. That can get him upfield but also allows the offense to use his momentum and lack of direction against him to make him a non-factor.

xwalker · Jun 30, 2020

fivetwos said:
Well, as far as projected draft status, one was a steal and the other a reach.

Could be part of things.

NFL.com Pre-Draft Rankings:
- Hill: 8th best DT
- Gallimore: 9th best DT

Actual Draft Results:
- Hill: 7th DT drafted
- Gallimore: 7th DT drafted

Carson · Jun 30, 2020

Hill will only be as good as Hill wants to be.

He either works hard, quits pouting and becomes a player. Or continues to pout, not work hard and be out of the league soon.

gimmesix · Jun 30, 2020

fivetwos said:
You dont need three years to know that the team had a second round grade on Gallimore and that the general consensus on Hill was not the same.

It's hard to say where teams valued Hill since we took him in the second. I remember there was some talk that other teams were poised to take him in that round if Dallas didn't.

And despite the talk that Dallas had a second-round grade on Gallimore, he went in the third round, so that's his true value no matter where he was graded.

Teams make mistakes all the time, and Hill might be one, but I don't think we can pretend to know that Hill wouldn't have gone in the second if Dallas didn't take him or that some team meant to take Gallimore in the second.

alicetooljam · Jun 30, 2020

stasheroo said:
The most important attribute will be between the ears.

Exactly...comes down to the heart/drive of the individual and so far it appears Hill doesnt have it until he proves otherwise.

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard."

Obviously we all have hopes they both come out of the their corners swinging this year and for years to come...

BAT · Jun 30, 2020

xwalker said:
Trysten Hill

The problem with Hill has never been lack of effort.

The problem has been difficultly adapting to change and implemented the exact techniques the coaches are trying to get him to implement.

His 1st college coaching staff loved him as player and described him as a "high motor" player.

His 2nd college D-Coordinator also loved his abilities and "high motor". (The 2nd Head Coach didn't like him).

Marinelli said repeatedly that Hill was a "high motor" player in practice but just wasn't implementing the style/techniques that they were coaching him to use.

The basic issue is that both the 2nd college DC and Marinelli wanted him to be a pass rushing 3tech but Hill had been coached to be a run defending 3-4 NT by his original college coaches.

Fans jumped on the narrative that he is lazy because of 1 incident where he and another player were sent home for something that happened in a meeting (Either not paying attention or falling asleep).

What fans fail to realize is that some of the most intense on-the-field players in NFL history were not very good in the classroom (Charles Haley...).

Hill showed great effort in the preseason games and played as many or more snaps than any of the DLinemen.

His biggest issue was that he had no clue how to play vs Zone Run Blocking (Unfortunately neither did Marinelli...).

They had him practice at 3tech all off-season and that's where he played in the preseason games.

In the games he did play during the season, they primarily played him at 1tech.

Overall he looked decent when he did play during the season.

He had some quality snaps on run plays where he got a good push on the OL and made the tackle.

He had one play where he almost hit the QB before the handoff to the RB.

He had actually penetrated to that depth before the handoff but was about a foot too far to the side.

That play showed a physical ability that very few 300+ pound players possess.

The question with Hill is whether he can "Take Coaching".

Marinelli was "old school" but he often seemed to speak in riddles and seemed a bit cryptic at times.

New DL coach Jim Tomsula is more of a Caveman. The season he was Head Coach for the 49ers (2015) I nicknamed him Caveman in discussions here at CZ.

His message to players will be very literal based on his press conferences as 49ers HC. He won't be cryptic or nuanced.

Despite being a Caveman, Tomsula has been regarded as a "players coach" and in tune with modern players need to check social media and those types of issues.

Much like Wade Phillips, Tomsula is a quality defensive coach but should never have been a Head Coach.

Comparing Tomsula to Wade is like comparing Landry to Garrett, laughable.

Tomsula is best as DL coach, not DC and certainly not a HC.

BourbonBalz · Jun 30, 2020

stasheroo said:
The most important attribute will be between the ears.

Spot on! Hill has all the measurables. The question is, can he play football at this level? I hope the answer is YES.

fivetwos · Jun 30, 2020

xwalker said:
NFL.com Pre-Draft Rankings:

Hill: 8th best DT

Gallimore: 9th best DT

Actual Draft Results:

Hill: 7th DT drafted

Gallimore: 7th DT drafted

Hey man, I'm not exactly on the against Hill bandwagon and I hope he becomes a useful member of the DLine, and has every shot to do so.

However using one specific sites rankings to make that point isnt fair. The guy was generally considered overdrafted.

I'll offer the opinion that the 20 draft was much deeper than the 19 draft, so the comparision is apples vs oranges.

Heck there are people out there that say Garrett was a great coach. We all have opinions, and that's the purpose of this forum, no?

fivetwos · Jun 30, 2020

gimmesix said:
It's hard to say where teams valued Hill since we took him in the second. I remember there was some talk that other teams were poised to take him in that round if Dallas didn't.

And despite the talk that Dallas had a second-round grade on Gallimore, he went in the third round, so that's his true value no matter where he was graded.

Teams make mistakes all the time, and Hill might be one, but I don't think we can pretend to know that Hill wouldn't have gone in the second if Dallas didn't take him or that some team meant to take Gallimore in the second.

I think all that stuff is ridiculous.....like no we cant take this guy at 17 because he is ranked in the 20s by most internet sites...the value is bad.

So sure, it matters none.

The perception at the time was that he was a bit of a reach, and as far as fans being against him, passing on Thornhill and safety still being an issue definitely plays into it.

That's all I'm saying on this thread.

I didnt heave the remote at the TV at the pick, nor have I given up on a 20-21 year old with talent.

darthseinfeld · Jun 30, 2020

stasheroo said:
The most important attribute will be between the ears.

Exactly. Its not a lack of athletic ability that has people writing Hill off. Its football character.

If he comes into camp dialed in, he will beat Gallimore for snaps. But odds are he wont come in dialed in

Big_D · Jun 30, 2020

xwalker said:
NFL.com Pre-Draft Rankings:

Hill: 8th best DT

Gallimore: 9th best DT

Actual Draft Results:

Hill: 7th DT drafted

Gallimore: 7th DT drafted

The issue with where they drafted Hill was the off the field factor. Everyone said he wasn't motivated hence the reason they got absolutely nothing out of him but the Cowboys gambled anyway. It's nice they grabbed an interior linemen, but you just knew the Dline whisperer was behind it. Another part of the problem was he was their only answer after the Ram debacle besides the usual bottom feeder FAs. With Garrett and Marinelli here I no longer got too excited about the draft anyway. That's really the biggest difference between Gallimore and Hill.. A real HC finally! Hill still reeks of the previous regime.

gimmesix · Jun 30, 2020

fivetwos said:
I think all that stuff is ridiculous.....like no we cant take this guy at 17 because he is ranked in the 20s by most internet sites...the value is bad.

So sure, it matters none.

The perception at the time was that he was a bit of a reach, and as far as fans being against him, passing on Thornhill and safety still being an issue definitely plays into it.

That's all I'm saying on this thread.

I didnt heave the remote at the TV at the pick, nor have I given up on a 20-21 year old with talent.

Right. I don't judge any player off where some draft guide(s) has him ranked. I was indifferent to the pick because I didn't know anything about him. The things I then read about him made me feel he was a boom or bust prospect who needed a lot of work before we would find out which he would be. I didn't expect much from him last year (maybe more than we got, but not much more).

Those who want to close the book early on prospects look at players who bolster that kind of judgment like Taco Charlton, but there are plenty of other players who started slowly and found themselves. Hopefully, we'll at least see some good signs of what he can be this year.

Ranched · Jun 30, 2020

Gallimore will likely back up McCoy and Dontari Poe.

Williamsboys · Jun 30, 2020

This years draft hopefull makes up for a couple of blunders, namely Taco and Hill.

Cowboyny · Jun 30, 2020

I think many were disappointed in the Hill selection due to several safeties had fallen to the Cowboys pick and decided to take him. Many were calling him a bust last season cause he was inactive for many weeks. In his in season snaps, he flashed at times, I remember a few plays, one on the goal line where he blew up the run play with his quickness off the snap.

Some players take longer to develop, there is usually a steep learning curve for defensive lineman. I remember Parcells complaining about Ware early on. Let's hope the team can at least hit on one of Hill/Gallimore. Having a veteran like McCoy should only help their development at the position.

jnday · Jun 30, 2020

xwalker said:
It is comical that the majority of fans like or love the Gallimore pick but hated the Hill pick.

Based strictly on game footage, they are very similar players in many ways.

Both are very quick and projected as 3tech pass rushing type DTs but both played more snaps in college at the 1tech or 0tech spots.

Both played somewhat opposite of the general style of players aligned at their positions (specific to their final college seasons).

Gallimore played a 3tech pass rushing style while most often aligning as a 1tech.

Hill was moved to 3tech in his final college season but played more of a 1 or 0 tech style.

Gallimore is known for his effort and Hill is known for his inconsistent effort. Effort makes a lot of difference to me.

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