Twitter: Trysten vs Neville

xwalker

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Rod Marinelli started Nick Hayden for years.

His absence is likely tied to him falling asleep and being late ie what was leaked. The eye test shows he can make plays in the NFL.

Yes, Hayden was always graded out with the least number of "loafs".

That was more important to Marinelli than the fact that Hayden got flattened on most plays.

I get the feeling that Ndamukong Suh would not have started for Marinellli because he would have to many "loafs".
 

xwalker

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I think his absence speaks louder than the plays he put in. On tape he wasn't that bad, but with all the DTs the Cowboys chose to play in front of him? Something's off there.
The Cowboys front 7 struggled in 2019 after the Rams exposed their weaknesses in the 2018 season playoff game.

The last thing they needed was an inexperience rookie. They couldn't figure out how to stop zone running plays with their veteran players.

Hill was actually decent in the preseason but his biggest issue just happened to be playing against zone running plays.
 

xwalker

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No he called me an idiot in a round about way which was an insult. It's not shocking you would stick up for him.

I can describe verbatim his multiple poor plays if I wanted to but I don't. Everyone knows that Tysten was not good last year and struggled. I don't have to write a 2500 word essay and make excuses for the kid.

FuzzyLumpkins and I have often disagreed and view most things in life from the opposite perspective; however, I respect that he actually watches game footage and states his own opinion, not the opinion of the media or the opinion of the mob of fans that go by narratives, not by what actually happened.

The point is that you and others want to voice your opinion without anything to actually back it up. The rallying cry is "I can describe verbatim his multiple poor plays if I wanted to but I don't."

It's fine if you don't want to put in the time to be informed about what actually happened, but when you post your opinions based on not being informed, I'm going to criticize those opinions.

I don't even understand why you post here if you are just going to repeat the mob narrative without actually becoming informed. There are plenty of people that will do that for you.
 

Sydla

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Anonymous sources bashing a person on anecdotes. Anonymous sources claiming that random coaches and players have an issue with a person. Yeah TMZ stuff.

And, again, it is obvious you are not used to working with people in their early 20s. A 21 year old has maturity issues. . . That goes with dog bites man and water is wet.

And again, it is him falling asleep in a morale meeting and being late to a meeting. It is not substance abuse, it is not about him not coming in. It is not about him being out of shape. It is not about him not applying new techniques and progressing in the scheme.

No it's about he said she said nonsense and anecdotes that are true for about 90+ of people his age grandstanded. TMZ stuff.

You can pull the clip up from Garrett's press conference in Nov 2019 when he was asked about Hill being late and he said Hill needed to grow and become more of a professional. No anonymous source there, it came right from Garrett. It's clear that Hill was rubbing the coaches the wrong way.

And no, not all 21 year olds in the NFL fall asleep and are late for meetings. In fact, I suspect the vast majority of NFL rookies actually make meetings on time, etc.
 

glimmerman

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You can pull the clip up from Garrett's press conference in Nov 2019 when he was asked about Hill being late and he said Hill needed to grow and become more of a professional. No anonymous source there, it came right from Garrett. It's clear that Hill was rubbing the coaches the wrong way.

And no, not all 21 year olds in the NFL fall asleep and are late for meetings. In fact, I suspect the vast majority of NFL rookies actually make meetings on time, etc.
Yeah I hope he starts showing up and plays well. Cause I think we lost Poe. Maybe McCoy. Not sure about McCoy yet. But Poe is gonna be gone due to latest news.
 

Sydla

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Yeah I hope he starts showing up and plays well. Cause I think we lost Poe. Maybe McCoy. Not sure about McCoy yet. But Poe is gonna be gone due to latest news.

If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, there would be a mountain of backlash against Jerry and the Cowboys if he cut him now.

I always viewed Poe as a one year rental anyway as he can be cut next year and save $4MM (with only a $750K dead money hit).
 

glimmerman

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If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, there would be a mountain of backlash against Jerry and the Cowboys if he cut him now.

I always viewed Poe as a one year rental anyway as he can be cut next year and save $4MM (with only a $750K dead money hit).
I am not sure JJ would care about the backlash. You know how he can be. He is finally backing off and hiring a HC and letting him hire his staff and don’t seem to be involved. Keeping out of the media and now being called out. I am interested in how he handles this.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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You can pull the clip up from Garrett's press conference in Nov 2019 when he was asked about Hill being late and he said Hill needed to grow and become more of a professional. No anonymous source there, it came right from Garrett. It's clear that Hill was rubbing the coaches the wrong way.

And no, not all 21 year olds in the NFL fall asleep and are late for meetings. In fact, I suspect the vast majority of NFL rookies actually make meetings on time, etc.

I never said all. What I said was that was common behavior from people that age. It generally starts in the early teenage years and continues on into the early twenties where young men need 10-12 hours of sleep a day. Put them in a job where they come in at 5AM and 6 or less hours of sleep and you are going to get narcolepsy.

I cannot comment on the stats for the NFL but given their workdays the writing is on the walls. People, men in particular, put unreasonable expectations on young men all the time. Chastising them for their biology is poor form.

And again, I did not argue that he was not late. All the other stuff your side of the argument about what the coaches and players feel about Hill is straight up TMZ nonsense.

It still goes back to what I first posted. It has to cause a bit of cognitive dissonance to hold that Garrett and Marinelli were poor coaches and with the same brain hold their actions and decisions as sacrosanct.
 

DanA

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  • The Real Issue
    • Hill had played as a 3-4 NT with the 1st college coaching staff, starting for 2 seasons.
    • He loved the original college coaching staff and bought into what they taught him which was to play the run as a priority.
    • The 2nd college coaching staff and Marinelli wanted him to be a pass rusher, but he had been programmed by the original staff to stop the run.
    • When he tried to implement Marinelli's "play the run on the way to the QB" he just ended up out of position.
    • His biggest issue in the preseason games was playing against zone run blocking.
    • The #1 problem for the Cowboys defense in 2019 was playing against zone run blocking.
    • The Rams exposed their weakness against zone run blocking in the 2018 season playoff game, and other offenses just followed that game plan in 2019.
    • The last thing the Cowboys needed in 2019 was a rookie didn't understand playing against NFL zone run blocking considering the coaches didn't know either.
1. Hill didn't play a lot in college
He started for 2 seasons then didn't start his final season but played more than the starting DTs and had the best stats of the UCF DTs that season.

He was actually awesome in multiple games that season.


2. Hill was in the dog house with college coaches
Not with the original coaching staff. Not with the 2nd D-Coordinator who did an interview after that draft and went into detail about Hill.

The 2nd D-Coordinator gave Hill a terrific review in the interview but he made it clear that Hill was slow to adapt to their scheme
The 2nd Head Coach got irritated because Hill was upset when his request to transfer with the original coaching staff was denied.


3. Hill appeared to be in the dog house with Cowboy coaches (reading between the lines)
Not according to Marinelli. Marinelli said "He has the want to and the work ethic but he is just not getting it"

4. Media have said "he was not well liked in the locker room"
I don't think that has been reported. Many media speculate that maybe that was the issue but I have not seen any media say they know it was an issue.

5. This has been reiterated by independent coaches (non cowboy) who train others in the off-season
I don't think so? Who? How would they know what happens in the Cowboys locker-room during the season?

6. He looked terrible in training camp
No, he did not. He looked very good physically. He just looked lost at times vs certain types of plays.

7. Hill simply didn't play as a second round pick in his rookie season despite defense crying out for a DT
Rookie 2nd round picks are historically hit or miss. Fans only remember the ones that were a hit but most 2nd round picks have very limited contributions as rookies.

You haven't really said anything above that I haven't already heard. Individually, I'd get behind you, but the accumulation of things starts to make me question. The interview was by Brandon Tucker who pretty much trains all of the Cowboys D-line including Tank, Taco, David Irving and now Aldon Smith. He was extremely complimentary about everyone including Taco, Irving and Aldon Smith. Then said the leadership group will either get him on page or break him because they're a tough, hard working group. He also apparently said more off air. There's an interview of Phillip Tanner talking about him immaturitywho was a special teams coach for the Cowboys last season. There's been veiled comments by David Helman, and Nick Eatman but you have to read between the lines with them, they will never let you know exactly what's going on because they are part of the Cowboys team in the building.
 

xwalker

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You haven't really said anything above that I haven't already heard. Individually, I'd get behind you, but the accumulation of things starts to make me question. The interview was by Brandon Tucker who pretty much trains all of the Cowboys D-line including Tank, Taco, David Irving and now Aldon Smith. He was extremely complimentary about everyone including Taco, Irving and Aldon Smith. Then said the leadership group will either get him on page or break him because they're a tough, hard working group. He also apparently said more off air. There's an interview of Phillip Tanner talking about him immaturitywho was a special teams coach for the Cowboys last season. There's been veiled comments by David Helman, and Nick Eatman but you have to read between the lines with them, they will never let you know exactly what's going on because they are part of the Cowboys team in the building.
That is all hearsay and innuendo.

Brandon Tucker was not in the locker-room.

Helman and Eatman are dumb and dumber without the funny stuff. They're lazy and just pander to fan narratives.

The college DC and Marinelli both commented about Hill on air. There is an issue but it is not about lack of effort or being a problem child. He just didn't use the technique/style that Marinelli wanted.
 

DanA

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That is all hearsay and innuendo.

Brandon Tucker was not in the locker-room.

Helman and Eatman are dumb and dumber without the funny stuff. They're lazy and just pander to fan narratives.

The college DC and Marinelli both commented about Hill on air. There is an issue but it is not about lack of effort or being a problem child. He just didn't use the technique/style that Marinelli wanted.

I don't think my suspicions are without basis (for the reasons already mentioned) and I've taken into account the interviews you're talking about. Hey, I respect you feel strongly otherwise but you haven't convinced it should be dismissed out of hand. Hell, all i'm saying is that there might be an issue with maturity and work ethic and that we really can't dismiss it as wrong.
 
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