If Tannehill can do it, why not Dalton

Blitzen · Oct 14, 2020

Future said:
$12m AAV does not get you a difference maker. These guys just don't exist.

Jadaveon Clowney and Yannick Ngakoue (13 and 12) don't make any difference on this team. Kyle Van Noy, and JPP certainly don't either.

Good point. Since neither Dak nor Dalton can make the difference in making this current team a real contender, the Cowboys should let them both go and start a real rebuild. They need all the cap they can get their hands on.

Future · Oct 14, 2020

Blitzen said:
Good point. Since neither Dak nor Dalton can make the difference in making this current team a real contender, the Cowboys should let them both go and start a real rebuild. They need all the cap they can get their hands on.

Cap space doesn't mean anything if you don't have a quarterback.

Blitzen · Oct 14, 2020

Future said:
Cap space doesn't mean anything if you don't have a quarterback.

We don't seem to have a difference maker for this team. Dak was 1-3 and the team was trending to 4-12. He should go to a team that actually has a defense. Best move for him and a Dallas team in such disarray.

coult44 · Oct 14, 2020

blueblood70 said:
just had to look up the ages and they are the same age, have had a similar career path ie numbers are very close etc

knowing that Tannehill was all but labeled a JAG, close to bust, never going to be a winner or star and yet the Tians go insert him change the game plan to more run oriented smart football with great defense and hes all of a sudden resurrected his career..

Why Not Dalton, i know maybe not here but if somehow it happened where he plays above average here and we somehow salvage this season and big maybe on Daks status and future given the injury and contract up in the air,

he has a few good years left and could bridge the Cowboys to the next young QB, maybe Nooch..who knows..

just watching RT go to a afccg after his first stop was a failure and now has his team 4-0 , why not Dalton?

its not that big of stretch and i know the entire volume of responses is we dont have that kind of defense, not yet is the answer.. lets just focus on our offense because thats all he can control..

wonder what MM is truly thinking these if AD has a very high grade to end this season..

lots of options are at our disposal because you tag Dak with Non franchise and take offers on trade if AD is deemed good enough to lead for few years while preparing the next guy..

If you dont get the offers you like and Dak and his agent finally see hes not getting better offers maybe deal is struck and this becomes MOOT..

just spit balling over coffee.

DEFENSE!!!

foofighters · Oct 14, 2020

jazzcat22 said:
7 points from their defense. Not from the offense, to be clear.
7 points from a very short field. Most bad offense should be able to do that.
9 points from 3 FG's of over 50 yards. I guess the defense held, but a very good K can overcome that.

So the offense gets a FG, a TD and a 2 point conversion. And those drives were helped by the defense being stupid with penalties.

So the 34 points narrative is not really what it seems. True, overall they gave up 27 points, so at least try to be correct with the actual points given up.

Doesn't matter. 34 points is 34 points. The QB still has to overcome the grand total for the W.

SSoup · Oct 14, 2020

They really aren't that comparable.

I suppose Dalton's CIN stint and Tannehill's MIA stint look similar if you just look at individual performance. Passer rating of 87.5 versus 87.0. A TD-to-INT ratio of 1.72 touchdowns per interception versus 1.64 touchdowns per interception. 7.1 yards per attempt versus 7.0 yards per attempt. But I think Miami was an appreciably worse team/offense so Tannehill individually performing similarly to Dalton despite worse conditions tells me which one was being held back by his situation and which one wasn't.

Dalton peaked and then declined in Cincinnati. By the end, he was playing worse than he ever had and posted a passer rating of 78 in his last year (basically regressing to the level of looking like Tannehill as a rookie). Tannehill's worst years were his first two in Miami. He then finished his time there with a 4-season stretch where he posted passer ratings of 92, 88, 93, 92. Those three years in the 90's are better than all but one of Dalton's seasons. Tannehill had advanced to the point where his average performance was better than Dalton's 2nd best season in his entire career.

But even if we throw that out and pretend they're basically the same player... Tannehill blew up in Tennessee without having to do it behind 3 bench players on his starting offensive line. Tannehill posted a passer rating of 117.5, 30 points higher than his career passing rating in Miami, in his first year in Tennessee. Asking for that kind of blow-up from Dalton when we're starting 3 bench players on the o-line is just not fair or realistic. I don't care how good our WRs are, the difference between our current o-line and Tennessee's is bonkers.

Also: Tannehill was asked to throw 23 passes per game in his big blow-up season in Tennessee. If you think, with our team and our defense, that Dalton is only going to be asked to throw 23 times per game, I have horrible news for you. He's not in nearly as manageable a situation as Tannehill was in.

This is such an unfair ask.

Worth mentioning that Dalton has a passer rating of 57 in 4 playoff games. Tannehill has a passer rating of 98 in 3 playoff games. Kid yourself all you want, but these two really aren't on the same level.

HungryLion · Oct 14, 2020

McKDaddy said:
but there is absolutely nothing concrete to say he can't do it. its just statistical bias. i saw him doing some nice things in training camp. let not make up our minds without proof. let him show what he can or can't do.

I’ll say it again. Relying on the hope and prayed than Dinucci will end up being a good QB. Isn’t a good long term strategy. It’s far too risky.

Is it possible? Sure. It’s just incredibly unlikely.

you shouldn’t hinge a teams future on something that is incredibly unlikely.

If they move on from Dak. The only thing that makes sense is to draft a QB and draft one high.

Relying on Dinucci as a long term strategy would be the equivalent of me relying on winning the lottery as a long term financial strategy. Not smart.

CooterBrown · Oct 14, 2020

I think Dalton will thrive in this offense. He is much better than Tannehill. Dalton was not the Bengals problem over the years. In his career he has passed for over 31,000 yards and ,for a surprising stat, he has 22 career rushing touchdowns. In 2016 he was #35 in the Top 100 players as voted on by the players. The Jones' get beat up about some of their roster decisions, but they hit it out of the park with this one.

The stats say the Cowboys got lucky playing against such bad pass defenses so far. But, stats are almost always misleading. For example: Seattle, Cleveland, and Atlanta have very poorly ranked pass defenses. Part of that ranking is that Dak threw for over 450 yards against each of them. This is like a pointless chicken or the egg debate: Did the Cowboys do well against them because their pass defense ranking is bad? Or, is their pass defense ranking bad because the Cowboys did well against them? Of course it can be adjusted for by looking at each of their games, taking out the game vs Cowboys, and re-averaging their pass defense. More number crunching than I want to do, but I think you'll find their pass defenses are not nearly as bad as their rankings would otherwise indicate.

And, I think "fans" who advocate throwing in the towel on the season just because Dak is out are being a bit hasty. This team has glaring weaknesses, but it isn't the QB position.

Aviano90 · Oct 14, 2020

Anything is possible. We start to find out Monday night.

McKDaddy · Oct 14, 2020

DakPresgoat said:
I’ll say it again. Relying on the hope and prayed than Dinucci will end up being a good QB. Isn’t a good long term strategy. It’s far too risky.

Is it possible? Sure. It’s just incredibly unlikely.

you shouldn’t hinge a teams future on something that is incredibly unlikely.

If they move on from Dak. The only thing that makes sense is to draft a QB and draft one high.

Relying on Dinucci as a long term strategy would be the equivalent of me relying on winning the lottery as a long term financial strategy. Not smart.

I wasn't saying you should count on it just saying he's on the team because he was evaluated and deemed to have some qualities. Give him time & see what he can become. I very much believe in letting performance dictate rather than just label players JAG's because of their draft position, perceived weaknessess, etc.. A lot of folks thought Herbert wasn't worth drafting as anything more than a lottery pick, so far he is displaying a lot of very good qualities. Who knows how his career will be evaluated later but for now he's outperforming the "experts" expectations. Dinucci might do the same.

GORICO · Oct 14, 2020

blueblood70 said:
just had to look up the ages and they are the same age, have had a similar career path ie numbers are very close etc

knowing that Tannehill was all but labeled a JAG, close to bust, never going to be a winner or star and yet the Tians go insert him change the game plan to more run oriented smart football with great defense and hes all of a sudden resurrected his career..

Why Not Dalton, i know maybe not here but if somehow it happened where he plays above average here and we somehow salvage this season and big maybe on Daks status and future given the injury and contract up in the air,

he has a few good years left and could bridge the Cowboys to the next young QB, maybe Nooch..who knows..

just watching RT go to a afccg after his first stop was a failure and now has his team 4-0 , why not Dalton?

its not that big of stretch and i know the entire volume of responses is we dont have that kind of defense, not yet is the answer.. lets just focus on our offense because thats all he can control..

wonder what MM is truly thinking these if AD has a very high grade to end this season..

lots of options are at our disposal because you tag Dak with Non franchise and take offers on trade if AD is deemed good enough to lead for few years while preparing the next guy..

If you dont get the offers you like and Dak and his agent finally see hes not getting better offers maybe deal is struck and this becomes MOOT..

just spit balling over coffee.

Blue-baby---- me loves your optimism....i say the same thing..why not Dalton?...i mean he threw some difficult yet precise passes on sunday....dont count out our offense yet...if we can have a decent O line we will be OK

and imagine they adjust on defense where players are not over thinking but reacting to the ball...and we get a decent defense?....its possible we could hurt someone in playoffs

Adreme · Oct 14, 2020

blueblood70 said:
just had to look up the ages and they are the same age, have had a similar career path ie numbers are very close etc

knowing that Tannehill was all but labeled a JAG, close to bust, never going to be a winner or star and yet the Tians go insert him change the game plan to more run oriented smart football with great defense and hes all of a sudden resurrected his career..

Why Not Dalton, i know maybe not here but if somehow it happened where he plays above average here and we somehow salvage this season and big maybe on Daks status and future given the injury and contract up in the air,

he has a few good years left and could bridge the Cowboys to the next young QB, maybe Nooch..who knows..

just watching RT go to a afccg after his first stop was a failure and now has his team 4-0 , why not Dalton?

its not that big of stretch and i know the entire volume of responses is we dont have that kind of defense, not yet is the answer.. lets just focus on our offense because thats all he can control..

wonder what MM is truly thinking these if AD has a very high grade to end this season..

lots of options are at our disposal because you tag Dak with Non franchise and take offers on trade if AD is deemed good enough to lead for few years while preparing the next guy..

If you dont get the offers you like and Dak and his agent finally see hes not getting better offers maybe deal is struck and this becomes MOOT..

just spit balling over coffee.

Bluntly Tannehill was a better QB. The thing with Tannehill is he would show you moments where you think he really has it down and could be an above-average QB but then inevitably something would happen like an injury or being coached by Adam Gase, and it would be onto next season. I watched a LOT of Dalton, all you ever see from him is a guy who is hard carried by his roster. For people who do not see a lot of AFC North football, he was carried to the playoffs by an elite defense and elite WRs (and a solid TE and RB) and then was just putrid when any playoff team just dared him to beat them.

Verdict · Oct 14, 2020

blueblood70 said:
just had to look up the ages and they are the same age, have had a similar career path ie numbers are very close etc

knowing that Tannehill was all but labeled a JAG, close to bust, never going to be a winner or star and yet the Tians go insert him change the game plan to more run oriented smart football with great defense and hes all of a sudden resurrected his career..

Why Not Dalton, i know maybe not here but if somehow it happened where he plays above average here and we somehow salvage this season and big maybe on Daks status and future given the injury and contract up in the air,

he has a few good years left and could bridge the Cowboys to the next young QB, maybe Nooch..who knows..

just watching RT go to a afccg after his first stop was a failure and now has his team 4-0 , why not Dalton?

its not that big of stretch and i know the entire volume of responses is we dont have that kind of defense, not yet is the answer.. lets just focus on our offense because thats all he can control..

wonder what MM is truly thinking these if AD has a very high grade to end this season..

lots of options are at our disposal because you tag Dak with Non franchise and take offers on trade if AD is deemed good enough to lead for few years while preparing the next guy..

If you dont get the offers you like and Dak and his agent finally see hes not getting better offers maybe deal is struck and this becomes MOOT..

just spit balling over coffee.

Dalton id a better QB than Tannehill.

HungryLion · Oct 14, 2020

McKDaddy said:
I wasn't saying you should count on it just saying he's on the team because he was evaluated and deemed to have some qualities. Give him time & see what he can become. I very much believe in letting performance dictate rather than just label players JAG's because of their draft position, perceived weaknessess, etc.. A lot of folks thought Herbert wasn't worth drafting as anything more than a lottery pick, so far he is displaying a lot of very good qualities. Who knows how his career will be evaluated later but for now he's outperforming the "experts" expectations. Dinucci might do the same.

Sure evaluate as you go. But don’t rely on. Which was my point. I’m saying don’t rely on it. That doesn’t mean just cut Dinucci and the coaches to not evaluate how he looks.

Disagree on Herbert. He was a a consensus top 10 pick and incredibly well scouted coming out of a major college program.

Captain-Crash · Oct 14, 2020

if you're a stats prescott lover, you can't expect dalton to do much, since his excuses are, the offensive line, defense, special teams, and coaching is so bad. right?
so why be so down on dalton when you had so many excuses for stats?

gjkoeppen · Oct 14, 2020

blueblood70 said:
just had to look up the ages and they are the same age, have had a similar career path ie numbers are very close etc

knowing that Tannehill was all but labeled a JAG, close to bust, never going to be a winner or star and yet the Tians go insert him change the game plan to more run oriented smart football with great defense and hes all of a sudden resurrected his career..

Why Not Dalton, i know maybe not here but if somehow it happened where he plays above average here and we somehow salvage this season and big maybe on Daks status and future given the injury and contract up in the air,

he has a few good years left and could bridge the Cowboys to the next young QB, maybe Nooch..who knows..

just watching RT go to a afccg after his first stop was a failure and now has his team 4-0 , why not Dalton?

its not that big of stretch and i know the entire volume of responses is we dont have that kind of defense, not yet is the answer.. lets just focus on our offense because thats all he can control..

wonder what MM is truly thinking these if AD has a very high grade to end this season..

lots of options are at our disposal because you tag Dak with Non franchise and take offers on trade if AD is deemed good enough to lead for few years while preparing the next guy..

If you dont get the offers you like and Dak and his agent finally see hes not getting better offers maybe deal is struck and this becomes MOOT..

just spit balling over coffee.

I admit I only read until your big maybe on Prescott's injury. Not a single medical person with first hand knowledge of Prescott's injury has even remotely hinted that there is any question or doubt that Prescott won't be fully recovered and read for the 2021 season. Those that want Prescott gone and/or want Dalton as the QB continue to say, imply or hint Prescott may not be ready for 2021 but have less than ZERO to back that up. I've read a couple people use the Alex Smith injury as an example but it's not because Smith had to have 17 surgeries to get him back on the field. Again not a single medical person with first hand knowledge has even hinted that any other surgeries will be needed.

You may just call it spit balling but it's clear you just wanted to start yet another "lets bash Prescott so Dalton will be the QB next season" thread.
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blueblood70 · Oct 14, 2020

gjkoeppen said:
I admit I only read until your big maybe on Prescott's injury. Not a single medical person with first hand knowledge of Prescott's injury has even remotely hinted that there is any question or doubt that Prescott won't be fully recovered and read for the 2021 season. Those that want Prescott gone and/or want Dalton as the QB continue to say, imply or hint Prescott may not be ready for 2021 but have less than ZERO to back that up. I've read a couple people use the Alex Smith injury as an example but it's not because Smith had to have 17 surgeries to get him back on the field. Again not a single medical person with first hand knowledge has even hinted that any other surgeries will be needed.

You may just call it spit balling but it's clear you just wanted to start yet another "lets bash Prescott so Dalton will be the QB next season" thread.
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you musty be drunk if thats clear

2018, 2019, 2020 no deal for Daks o 2021 post injury things go smoother?!..catch a whiff of reality.....

now Dak gets hurt may hold out if FT, so w t f do you think needs to be a scenario what happens if Dak wants far more then he did the last 2 offseasons of negotiations AFTER he gets hurt..

who give a flying rats behind if you think this was a bash dak thread as it was not , it was hypothetical and actually could happen, doctors dont know about complications down the road like JSmith injury no-one knew if he could recover and play again and Alex smith got infections that caused a ton of complications and we wont know that about dak for month or so..

so if this was clear to you you might want to get some uppers to wake you up..lmao not bash dak thread a what if totally hypothetical thread IF Daltons plays well, daks stands at a hard at ridiculous number and we may trade him..thats it..

gjkoeppen · Oct 14, 2020

blueblood70 said:
you musty be drunk if thats clear

2018, 2019, 2020 no deal for Daks o 2021 post injury things go smoother?!..catch a whiff of reality.....

now Dak gets hurt may hold out if FT, so w t f do you think needs to be a scenario what happens if Dak wants far more then he did the last 2 offseasons of negotiations AFTER he gets hurt..

who give a flying rats behind if you think this was a bash dak thread as it was not , it was hypothetical and actually could happen, doctors dont know about complications down the road like JSmith injury no-one knew if he could recover and play again and Alex smith got infections that caused a ton of complications and we wont know that about dak for month or so..

so if this was clear to you you might want to get some uppers to wake you up..lmao not bash dak thread a what if totally hypothetical thread IF Daltons plays well, daks stands at a hard at ridiculous number and we may trade him..thats it..

You're doing a great job of Prescott hating. ALL of you arguments are based on UNKNOWNS, GUESSES, AND SPECULATION and ZERO on any actual FACTS.

Lets start out with your timeline. Just before the 2018 season the Cowboys made an offer of 33 mi. a year that Prescott turned down stating he was going to gamble on his performance and that he would not negotiate during the season so he could concentrate on football. Then after the season the Cowboys were prepared to start negotiating but Prescott's agent said he will submit what Prescott would accept. The Cowboys waited a month for this submission and when it didn't come they again reached out and tried to start negotiating and again France stalled until he finally said 38 mil a year and a 3 year contract fully guaranteed. The negotiations weren't going anywhere and time was running out before the start of free agency so the Cowboys applied the tag. They continued to try to negotiate before the July 15th deadline but France wouldn't budge. Finally in the last hour or so on July 15th Prescott was negotiating himself and he and the Cowboys agreed on 35 mil. a year on a 4 year deal but could not get the guaranteed money done before the deadline. Now even those in the sporting world that were questioning the negotiations now after Prescott's injury now say that even though he'll be ready to play for the 2021 season he won't be able ask for what he did last year because of the biggest thing is EVERYONE knows the cap will be smaller for 2021. It been reported that the agency France works for is unhappy with him for how he handled Prescott and that they may part ways with him. Many in the sporting world have said that after Prescott took over his own negotiations last summer that if he retains France he will tell him if the Cowboys offer a certain amount to take it or he will fire him.

Now your two examples to make it seem like there is this BIG chance that Prescott won't be ready for 2021. Jaylon Smith and Alex Smith. With Jaylon the doctors knew immediately following his surgery that there was a probability that he would have a condition called drop foot and that it would take time for the nerves to regenerate. The surgeon that did the surgery is also the Cowboys surgeon and he told the Cowboys he wouldn't be ready to play at any time his rookie season. The Cowboys gambled with a rookie contract on a player prior to his injury was a top 5 pick.not a big contract like Prescott will get now.

Now Alex Smith and again immediately following his 1st surgery they knew he would need 2 other surgeries to remove pins that were put in during the first surgery. They didn't know then that 13 more surgeries were going to be needed but again NOT ONE medical person with first hand knowledge of Prescott's injury has even hinted that there won't be a total and complete recovery and be ready to play the 2021 season.

Again your Prescott hating based on your unknown things, guesses and speculations yet you act like they are all facts. Oh the chances of Jerry and Stephen deciding to trade Prescott are about the same as me winning the lottery or you to stop being a Prescott hater.
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blueblood70 · Oct 15, 2020

gjkoeppen said:
You're doing a great job of Prescott hating. ALL of you arguments are based on UNKNOWNS, GUESSES, AND SPECULATION and ZERO on any actual FACTS.

Lets start out with your timeline. Just before the 2018 season the Cowboys made an offer of 33 mi. a year that Prescott turned down stating he was going to gamble on his performance and that he would not negotiate during the season so he could concentrate on football. Then after the season the Cowboys were prepared to start negotiating but Prescott's agent said he will submit what Prescott would accept. The Cowboys waited a month for this submission and when it didn't come they again reached out and tried to start negotiating and again France stalled until he finally said 38 mil a year and a 3 year contract fully guaranteed. The negotiations weren't going anywhere and time was running out before the start of free agency so the Cowboys applied the tag. They continued to try to negotiate before the July 15th deadline but France wouldn't budge. Finally in the last hour or so on July 15th Prescott was negotiating himself and he and the Cowboys agreed on 35 mil. a year on a 4 year deal but could not get the guaranteed money done before the deadline. Now even those in the sporting world that were questioning the negotiations now after Prescott's injury now say that even though he'll be ready to play for the 2021 season he won't be able ask for what he did last year because of the biggest thing is EVERYONE knows the cap will be smaller for 2021. It been reported that the agency France works for is unhappy with him for how he handled Prescott and that they may part ways with him. Many in the sporting world have said that after Prescott took over his own negotiations last summer that if he retains France he will tell him if the Cowboys offer a certain amount to take it or he will fire him.

Now your two examples to make it seem like there is this BIG chance that Prescott won't be ready for 2021. Jaylon Smith and Alex Smith. With Jaylon the doctors knew immediately following his surgery that there was a probability that he would have a condition called drop foot and that it would take time for the nerves to regenerate. The surgeon that did the surgery is also the Cowboys surgeon and he told the Cowboys he wouldn't be ready to play at any time his rookie season. The Cowboys gambled with a rookie contract on a player prior to his injury was a top 5 pick.not a big contract like Prescott will get now.

Now Alex Smith and again immediately following his 1st surgery they knew he would need 2 other surgeries to remove pins that were put in during the first surgery. They didn't know then that 13 more surgeries were going to be needed but again NOT ONE medical person with first hand knowledge of Prescott's injury has even hinted that there won't be a total and complete recovery and be ready to play the 2021 season.

Again your Prescott hating based on your unknown things, guesses and speculations yet you act like they are all facts. Oh the chances of Jerry and Stephen deciding to trade Prescott are about the same as me winning the lottery or you to stop being a Prescott hater.
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you are arguing with yourself , have fun in pity land..

my thread was started as hypothetical that hasn't happened yet but is based on a reality that could happen..nothing about hating dak but you continue to try and steer it that way..

have fun typing i didnt bother to read past the first line.

Jake · Oct 15, 2020

Verdict said:
Dalton is a better QB than Tannehill.

There is absolutely no evidence to support that conclusion, but you're entitled to feel however you like about either of them.

If Tannehill can do it, why not Dalton

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Go Seahawks!!!

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Beyond tired of Jerry