Why you don't need to tank

G2 · Dec 18, 2020

What matters to me the most about the earliest of picks is the opportunity to trade back for more picks.

jazzcat22 · Dec 18, 2020

America's Cowboy said:
It's always the wimps who say such things. Been there. Done that (rooting for a loss a time or two for the better of the team). Ugly stares but not one time has any physical confrontation happened.

What do you mean by this?

MoistMayonnaise · Dec 18, 2020

The best thing about the tanking scenario is we are so bad we don't have to tank. Just play down to our level and we lose out and the 4-5 pick.

CouchCoach · Dec 18, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
People kill me coming up with all these scenarios as to why the Cowboys need to play to lose so they can get a better draft pick.. If you watched the special on the top 60 players in franchise history ask yourself how many of them were top 10 picks?

Emmitt? - Nope 17th
Roger? - Not even a first rounder
Witten? - second rounder
Zack Martin - Nope 16th
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th
Larry Allen - Nope - second round
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted
Nate Newton - Undrafted
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round
Demarcus Ware - 11th close..
Michael Irvin? - 11th .
Bob Lilly? - 13th
Romo? - Undrafted
Flozell? - Second rounder.

Yeah.. that list is getting long .. so let's go to the shorter list..

Of the all time 60 greatest Cowboys here are your top 10 picks:

Troy Aikman 1-1
Too-Tall Jones - 1-1
Tony Dorsett - 2nd overall
Randy White - 2nd overall
Zeke - 4th overall
Tyron Smith - 9th overall
Deion - 5 th overall (by the Falcons)

Unless I have missed someone that is the entire list of top 10 overall picks who have turned into great players for the Cowboys. 7 out of 60. In fact there are almost as many undrafted guys on the list as top 10 picks. Point being, there is plenty of talent to be had throughout the draft. You simply need good scouting to find them and good coaching to develop them. I think the Cowboys scouting department has done a pretty good job finding good players.. I'm not sure I can say the same about our ability to coach and develop them over the past two decades. Here's hoping this coaching staff gets better at it. If they don't then it really doesn't matter where or who we draft, this team is going to suck. And we will continue to watch guys go elsewhere and win Super Bowls.. and look good doing it.

Ronnie, someone may have already pointed this out but the majority of those players in that first grouping were not picked by this brain trust and Martin and Ware were 1st's and Bryant was a faller, just like Lamb was.

jazzcat22 · Dec 18, 2020

hittheskids said:
The best thing about the tanking scenario is we are so bad we don't have to tank. Just play down to our level and we lose out and the 4-5 pick.

One thing I noticed this year.
In the past Garrett teams played down to the level of other teams, and rarely up to the level of better teams. We seen it for 10 years.
Though the players played hard, did not give up, except seemed so last year at times.

MM's teams have not really played down to the level of teams, and have played hard, up to the level of some teams, like the Steelers. They too played hard except the defense at times. But injuries still the main reason they seem to not play hard or up to the level we as fans expect. They are decimated so it is hard to truly judge.

Have a healthy team, fix the defense, I think we see a big difference going forward.

kskboys · Dec 18, 2020

Cowboy Lover said:
I'll have to see how much the rookies are contributing...but....Remains to be seen for miami too. Looks like they're hoping for a wild card?

Yes, it remains to be seen.

Tanking worked great for INDY w/ Luck, but then terrible GMing tore them apart.

FVSTONE · Dec 18, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
People kill me coming up with all these scenarios as to why the Cowboys need to play to lose so they can get a better draft pick.. If you watched the special on the top 60 players in franchise history ask yourself how many of them were top 10 picks?

Emmitt? - Nope 17th
Roger? - Not even a first rounder
Witten? - second rounder
Zack Martin - Nope 16th
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th
Larry Allen - Nope - second round
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted
Nate Newton - Undrafted
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round
Demarcus Ware - 11th close..
Michael Irvin? - 11th .
Bob Lilly? - 13th
Romo? - Undrafted
Flozell? - Second rounder.

Yeah.. that list is getting long .. so let's go to the shorter list..

Of the all time 60 greatest Cowboys here are your top 10 picks:

Troy Aikman 1-1
Too-Tall Jones - 1-1
Tony Dorsett - 2nd overall
Randy White - 2nd overall
Zeke - 4th overall
Tyron Smith - 9th overall
Deion - 5 th overall (by the Falcons)

Unless I have missed someone that is the entire list of top 10 overall picks who have turned into great players for the Cowboys. 7 out of 60. In fact there are almost as many undrafted guys on the list as top 10 picks. Point being, there is plenty of talent to be had throughout the draft. You simply need good scouting to find them and good coaching to develop them. I think the Cowboys scouting department has done a pretty good job finding good players.. I'm not sure I can say the same about our ability to coach and develop them over the past two decades. Here's hoping this coaching staff gets better at it. If they don't then it really doesn't matter where or who we draft, this team is going to suck. And we will continue to watch guys go elsewhere and win Super Bowls.. and look good doing it.

Seriously, does everyone think this team is losing on purpose??????????????????? They're not, it's just they are that god awful team that needs some major purging.

DallasEast · Dec 18, 2020

The best thing about pro-tanking or anti-tanking is that both concepts are beyond the control of fans. How both this rest of the season and draft next April will unfold shall either be accepted for reality or will continue the teeth gnashing that goes hand-in-hand with the misconception that wishing alone makes roster dreams come true.

Roadtrip635 · Dec 18, 2020

gjkoeppen said:
And with EVERY team having LESS cap space if those cap casualties didn't accept smaller offers from their team what makes you think they will take a lesser amount from another team where they also have to have all the additional expenses and pain in the butt of moving.
.
.

Because it happens every year, guys that teams would like to keep get cut or traded, but it's amplified going into next season with that much less cap space. Some will take a little less to stay but there will be many teams having to make hard decisions. I'm not talking about higher talent, but those mid-tier vets that can help solidify a unit or provide a valuable rotational role. There will be some bargains available in trade with lower round picks than other seasons with teams trying to get under the cap, as well. It will be an interesting off season.

Aviano90 · Dec 18, 2020

Sydla said:
Yes. Listing players from a different time that weren't Top 10 picks doesn't disprove this theory at all. Plus, the value of a higher pick could be as important as any potential player if a team can trade that pick for a windfall of other picks.

Based on this draft and who might be available and the fact there could be 4 QBs taken in the Top 10 picks, having a top pick could result in the Cowboys being able to trade out and grab a few more premium picks.

Or it hopefully prevents Jerry from giving up so much to move up in the draft.

America's Cowboy · Dec 18, 2020

jazzcat22 said:
What do you mean by this?

Lol. Not you bro. I've heard this said so many times on social media over the years, and literally, it's by the wimpiest guys you could run into.

Roadtrip635 · Dec 18, 2020

DallasEast said:
The best thing about pro-tanking or anti-tanking is that both concepts are beyond the control of fans. How both this rest of the season and draft next April will unfold shall either be accepted for reality or will continue the teeth gnashing that goes hand-in-hand with the misconception that wishing alone makes roster dreams come true.

A year like this, I just want to see the team play better and show some promise for next season and lose on a last second Hail Mary.

TwoCentPlain · Dec 18, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
I dunno.. maybe it's the old player and coach in me.. but aside from games played after everything is clinched, I've never really thought of any game as "meaningless." I have zero interest in watching my team lose. I guess that makes me one of your "morons."

As a player and coach, we’re you involved with a draft? That is, did you play or coach in the NFL because that is the only place with the draft?

Yeah, the pickup games I played, we always played to win and impress the young ladies. We just picked players with a draft right before each game.

Now, if the ladies rewarded a loss for some reason, well, I could drop a ball or two here and there.

Ken · Dec 18, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
People kill me coming up with all these scenarios as to why the Cowboys need to play to lose so they can get a better draft pick.. If you watched the special on the top 60 players in franchise history ask yourself how many of them were top 10 picks?

Emmitt? - Nope 17th
Roger? - Not even a first rounder
Witten? - second rounder
Zack Martin - Nope 16th
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th
Larry Allen - Nope - second round
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted
Nate Newton - Undrafted
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round
Demarcus Ware - 11th close..
Michael Irvin? - 11th .
Bob Lilly? - 13th
Romo? - Undrafted
Flozell? - Second rounder.

Yeah.. that list is getting long .. so let's go to the shorter list..

Of the all time 60 greatest Cowboys here are your top 10 picks:

Troy Aikman 1-1
Too-Tall Jones - 1-1
Tony Dorsett - 2nd overall
Randy White - 2nd overall
Zeke - 4th overall
Tyron Smith - 9th overall
Deion - 5 th overall (by the Falcons)

Unless I have missed someone that is the entire list of top 10 overall picks who have turned into great players for the Cowboys. 7 out of 60. In fact there are almost as many undrafted guys on the list as top 10 picks. Point being, there is plenty of talent to be had throughout the draft. You simply need good scouting to find them and good coaching to develop them. I think the Cowboys scouting department has done a pretty good job finding good players.. I'm not sure I can say the same about our ability to coach and develop them over the past two decades. Here's hoping this coaching staff gets better at it. If they don't then it really doesn't matter where or who we draft, this team is going to suck. And we will continue to watch guys go elsewhere and win Super Bowls.. and look good doing it.

Now post all of the misses.

It is where you pick that matters. How many guys picking mid to lower 1/3 of the draft have we missed by a few picks in the 2nd-5th round. That is where it will really pay off to be higher in the draft.

A guy like Witten was a 3rd round pick but he was 5th in the round. We likely don't get him if we are 15th pick in that round.

It matters.

CowboyRoy · Dec 18, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
People kill me coming up with all these scenarios as to why the Cowboys need to play to lose so they can get a better draft pick.. If you watched the special on the top 60 players in franchise history ask yourself how many of them were top 10 picks?

Emmitt? - Nope 17th
Roger? - Not even a first rounder
Witten? - second rounder
Zack Martin - Nope 16th
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th
Larry Allen - Nope - second round
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted
Nate Newton - Undrafted
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round
Demarcus Ware - 11th close..
Michael Irvin? - 11th .
Bob Lilly? - 13th
Romo? - Undrafted
Flozell? - Second rounder.

Yeah.. that list is getting long .. so let's go to the shorter list..

Of the all time 60 greatest Cowboys here are your top 10 picks:

Troy Aikman 1-1
Too-Tall Jones - 1-1
Tony Dorsett - 2nd overall
Randy White - 2nd overall
Zeke - 4th overall
Tyron Smith - 9th overall
Deion - 5 th overall (by the Falcons)

Unless I have missed someone that is the entire list of top 10 overall picks who have turned into great players for the Cowboys. 7 out of 60. In fact there are almost as many undrafted guys on the list as top 10 picks. Point being, there is plenty of talent to be had throughout the draft. You simply need good scouting to find them and good coaching to develop them. I think the Cowboys scouting department has done a pretty good job finding good players.. I'm not sure I can say the same about our ability to coach and develop them over the past two decades. Here's hoping this coaching staff gets better at it. If they don't then it really doesn't matter where or who we draft, this team is going to suck. And we will continue to watch guys go elsewhere and win Super Bowls.. and look good doing it.

They can play hard and try to win all they want. I would never expect a team to try and lose. But that isnt going to stop me from hoping they lose.

Difference is that you dont understand the difference in the two.

Just l like you dont understand what a great back looks like. All common sense, football 101 stuff.

And I guess on top of it, you dont even understand the simple concept of "draft capital" or the advantages of better draft position. Again, common sense stuff.

RonnieT24 · Dec 18, 2020

ninja said:
As a player and coach, we’re you involved with a draft? That is, did you play or coach in the NFL because that is the only place with the draft?

Yeah, the pickup games I played, we always played to win and impress the young ladies. We just picked players with a draft right before each game.

Now, if the ladies rewarded a loss for some reason, well, I could drop a ball or two here and there.

Nope.. never got to the NFL.. when I talk about games mattering it was as a player and a coach. Since I never got involved in any drafting my mindset has never shifted from wanting to win.. period.

FuzzyLumpkins · Dec 18, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
People kill me coming up with all these scenarios as to why the Cowboys need to play to lose so they can get a better draft pick.. If you watched the special on the top 60 players in franchise history ask yourself how many of them were top 10 picks?

Emmitt? - Nope 17th
Roger? - Not even a first rounder
Witten? - second rounder
Zack Martin - Nope 16th
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th
Larry Allen - Nope - second round
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted
Nate Newton - Undrafted
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round
Demarcus Ware - 11th close..
Michael Irvin? - 11th .
Bob Lilly? - 13th
Romo? - Undrafted
Flozell? - Second rounder.

Yeah.. that list is getting long .. so let's go to the shorter list..

Of the all time 60 greatest Cowboys here are your top 10 picks:

Troy Aikman 1-1
Too-Tall Jones - 1-1
Tony Dorsett - 2nd overall
Randy White - 2nd overall
Zeke - 4th overall
Tyron Smith - 9th overall
Deion - 5 th overall (by the Falcons)

Unless I have missed someone that is the entire list of top 10 overall picks who have turned into great players for the Cowboys. 7 out of 60. In fact there are almost as many undrafted guys on the list as top 10 picks. Point being, there is plenty of talent to be had throughout the draft. You simply need good scouting to find them and good coaching to develop them. I think the Cowboys scouting department has done a pretty good job finding good players.. I'm not sure I can say the same about our ability to coach and develop them over the past two decades. Here's hoping this coaching staff gets better at it. If they don't then it really doesn't matter where or who we draft, this team is going to suck. And we will continue to watch guys go elsewhere and win Super Bowls.. and look good doing it.

When you look across the league and at the number of all pros and Hall of famers the majority of them are selected in the top 10 of the draft.

This notion that draft spot talent level doesn't matter should be a non starter but for some reason it's not.

CowboyRoy · Dec 18, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
All true.. but 5-37-59-91 is not a huge difference from 8-40-62-94 to me. I still get 4 of the top 100 players. If I scout well and coach well they will be fine. The Garrett regime drafted in the middle of the draft most of his tenure thanks to all them 8-8 seasons.. Yet managed to get Dez, Fredbeard, Zack, Tyron, Zeke, Byron, Murray, and Dak. 7 All pro players while almost always drafting in the middle. Two, Tyron and Martin, probably on a hall of fame trajectory unless injury takes them out. That aint nothin to sneeze at. With better coaching that nucleus would have a ring by now. Or maybe a LITTLE more focus on drafting quality on defense. While they have not completely ignored it.. they have certainly reached for more guys on defense than most of us would like. Hopefully now that Rod is not here to fall in love with a guy during the interview we can just draft the best f-in football player on defense. Send him to charm school if we need him to be likeable.

So in summary............you dont understand the simple concept of drafting higher is better? Why would you admit that?

CowboyRoy · Dec 18, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
Nope.. never got to the NFL.. when I talk about games mattering it was as a player and a coach. Since I never got involved in any drafting my mindset has never shifted from wanting to win.. period.

Winning the draft is where winning start genius.

Unless you do stupid things like draft fat stupid ewoks with the 4th pick. But none the less, the opportunity was there to take Jaylon Ramsey and they blew it.

DCwarrior · Dec 18, 2020

jazzcat22 said:
So a question to the tankers.
Not that you would go out of your way to go to a sports bar to watch them if it was the only way to do so.

So say, if you had to go and you had no other choice not too.
And the crowd was all wanting Dallas to win. Would you actively be rooting for a loss in front of them? Saying we must have a higher draft pick. Knowing you may get your butt whipped.

Cowboy fans whip about as much butt as the Cowboys.... not much!

Why you don't need to tank

G2

Taco Engineer

jazzcat22

MoistMayonnaise

Devil's Advocate

CouchCoach

jazzcat22

kskboys

Well-Known Member

FVSTONE

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DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365

Roadtrip635

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Aviano90

Go Seahawks!!!

America's Cowboy

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Roadtrip635

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TwoCentPlain

Numbnuts

Ken

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CowboyRoy

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RonnieT24

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FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish

CowboyRoy

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CowboyRoy

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DCwarrior

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