Why you don't need to tank

[JoeKing]

Tanking for years seems to have finally paid off for the Cleveland Browns. It seems to be the better way than the Cowboy's 25 years of mediocrity.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

The best thing about pro-tanking or anti-tanking is that both concepts are beyond the control of fans. How both this rest of the season and draft next April will unfold shall either be accepted for reality or will continue the teeth gnashing that goes hand-in-hand with the misconception that wishing alone makes roster dreams come true.

I think the concepts say a lot about the person. If you "get" both concepts....probably pretty rational. If you are overly obsessed one way or the other....might be an issue somewhere.

I do understand both concept but Imma err toward winning....always. I will deal with the draft when it comes.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

People kill me coming up with all these scenarios as to why the Cowboys need to play to lose so they can get a better draft pick.. If you watched the special on the top 60 players in franchise history ask yourself how many of them were top 10 picks?

Emmitt? - Nope 17th
Roger? - Not even a first rounder
Witten? - second rounder
Zack Martin - Nope 16th
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th
Larry Allen - Nope - second round
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted
Nate Newton - Undrafted
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round
Demarcus Ware - 11th close..
Michael Irvin? - 11th .
Bob Lilly? - 13th
Romo? - Undrafted
Flozell? - Second rounder.

Yeah.. that list is getting long .. so let's go to the shorter list..

Of the all time 60 greatest Cowboys here are your top 10 picks:

Troy Aikman 1-1
Too-Tall Jones - 1-1
Tony Dorsett - 2nd overall
Randy White - 2nd overall
Zeke - 4th overall
Tyron Smith - 9th overall
Deion - 5 th overall (by the Falcons)

Unless I have missed someone that is the entire list of top 10 overall picks who have turned into great players for the Cowboys. 7 out of 60. In fact there are almost as many undrafted guys on the list as top 10 picks. Point being, there is plenty of talent to be had throughout the draft. You simply need good scouting to find them and good coaching to develop them. I think the Cowboys scouting department has done a pretty good job finding good players.. I'm not sure I can say the same about our ability to coach and develop them over the past two decades. Here's hoping this coaching staff gets better at it. If they don't then it really doesn't matter where or who we draft, this team is going to suck. And we will continue to watch guys go elsewhere and win Super Bowls.. and look good doing it.

Emmitt? - Nope 17th Not A QB
Roger? - Not even a first rounder Could have been the 1st overall pick in the 1964 if not for military obligation.
Witten? - second rounder Not A QB
Zack Martin - Nope 16th Not A QB
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th Not A QB
Larry Allen - Nope - second round Not A QB
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted Not A QB
Nate Newton - Undrafted Not A QB
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round Not A QB
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round Not A QB
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted Not A QB
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round Not A QB
Demarcus Ware - 11th close.. Not A QB
Michael Irvin? - 11th . Not A QB
Bob Lilly? - 13th Not A QB
Romo? - Undrafted If you think you can find another Undrafted Franchise QB, I'm Open to it.
Flozell? - Second rounder. Not A QB

 

[G2]

Emmitt? - Nope 17th Not A QB
Roger? - Not even a first rounder Could have been the 1st overall pick in the 1964 if not for military obligation.
Witten? - second rounder Not A QB
Zack Martin - Nope 16th Not A QB
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th Not A QB
Larry Allen - Nope - second round Not A QB
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted Not A QB
Nate Newton - Undrafted Not A QB
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round Not A QB
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round Not A QB
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted Not A QB
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round Not A QB
Demarcus Ware - 11th close.. Not A QB
Michael Irvin? - 11th . Not A QB
Bob Lilly? - 13th Not A QB
Romo? - Undrafted If you think you can find another Undrafted Franchise QB, I'm Open to it.
Flozell? - Second rounder. Not A QB

Thanks, this whole time I thought they were all QBs.

 

[fivetwos]

Well..

We haven’t had a great season since we had a top 5 pick...

Maybe tanking was good..

Also, the last time we were winning Superbowls our QB was the #1 pick in the draft.

The 88 Cowboys didnt try to lose, they were fine at doing so despite a full effort.

Jimmy built a great roster.....one that took Jerry 4-5 years to destroy....but everyone on that team fell in behind Aikman, who was already in their lap when they came around. We will never know what may have happened with Walsh instead, but I doubt it becomes what it did.

One more win in 1988 and we end up with Tony Mandarich instead of Troy Aikman.

Would it have been worth it? No chance.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So basically, if you are an organization who is interested in a franchise QB, this idea of not trying to draft at the very top of the draft is not supported, in general. This is not the only reason, of course, there are many, many other reasons why you might want to draft higher but really, if this is the strategy of the team, then you really don't need any more reasons then the one given above.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The 88 Cowboys didnt try to lose, they were fine at doing so despite a full effort.

Jimmy built a great roster.....one that took Jerry 4-5 years to destroy....but everyone on that team fell in behind Aikman, who was already in their lap when they came around. We will never know what may have happened with Walsh instead, but I doubt it becomes what it did.

One more win in 1988 and we end up with Tony Mandarich instead of Troy Aikman.

Would it have been worth it? No chance.

Maybe not. GB really liked Mandarich. They might have taken him regardless.

 

[quickccc]

People kill me coming up with all these scenarios as to why the Cowboys need to play to lose so they can get a better draft pick.. If you watched the special on the top 60 players in franchise history ask yourself how many of them were top 10 picks?

Emmitt? - Nope 17th
Roger? - Not even a first rounder
Witten? - second rounder
Zack Martin - Nope 16th
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th
Larry Allen - Nope - second round
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted
Nate Newton - Undrafted
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round
Demarcus Ware - 11th close..
Michael Irvin? - 11th .
Bob Lilly? - 13th
Romo? - Undrafted
Flozell? - Second rounder.

Yeah.. that list is getting long .. so let's go to the shorter list..

Of the all time 60 greatest Cowboys here are your top 10 picks:

Troy Aikman 1-1
Too-Tall Jones - 1-1
Tony Dorsett - 2nd overall
Randy White - 2nd overall
Zeke - 4th overall
Tyron Smith - 9th overall
Deion - 5 th overall (by the Falcons)

Unless I have missed someone that is the entire list of top 10 overall picks who have turned into great players for the Cowboys. 7 out of 60. In fact there are almost as many undrafted guys on the list as top 10 picks. Point being, there is plenty of talent to be had throughout the draft.

You simply need good scouting to find them and good coaching to develop them. I think the Cowboys scouting department has done a pretty good job finding good players.. I'm not sure I can say the same about our ability to coach and develop them over the past two decades.

Here's hoping this coaching staff gets better at it. If they don't then it really doesn't matter where or who we draft, this team is going to suck. And we will continue to watch guys go elsewhere and win Super Bowls.. and look good doing it.

Sure it’s not a cement guarantee about a top 5 overall pick – but you’d still want having the flexibility and/or the best chances at either securing the targeted player most coveted, or that top 5 selection being invaluable that it's the covet of another NFL team
wanting to trade down up for that pick

– if you’re not satisfied with the bracket of players prospects available at your draft slot, and according to your own draft board, then it gives you flexibility to stay or move around.

- In 2013, Cowboys were not enamored with the group of players still onboard in the 1st round, at the time,.. so they moved down, gathered additional draft picks while eventually drafting a player of interest in future all pro center travis Fredrick.

- I hated losing and being a 4-11 team after 2015 year, but contrary to various opinions, that 4th overall brought us one of the most explosive and dynamic backs (at that time) his first 2 years in the NFL.
He brought us an Adrian Peterson type force,.. to team up with Romo’s lethal passing (at least that was the plan pre-injury Romo)

- It's about the value of flexibility of either taking a player rated so high on your draft board if he is available,.. or move down further in the round, while gathering valuable additional picks for more key players.

" Tanking " gives us more the value of flexibility, and higher the draft pick, the likelihood that other teams could be willing to trade up if you're willing .. or the higher up the draft pick you yourself will covet a player that's high up on your draft board.

 

[stilltheguru]

You forgot Roy and Tnew. (I didnt check all replies)

 

[TheCoolFan]

The defense is terrible and the Cowboys' last 10 years of drafts have not yielded many impact players because they have not had the opportunity to take the blue chip prospect with the high draft pick. I'll gladly take my chances tanking and getting a high pick to help in rebuilding the defense. Morris Claiborne was a bust, no doubt about that. However, that still should not make them gunshy.

This defense needs an impact-maker. Not just a player with a ceiling of being a serviceable starter or a Pro Bowler but a true defensive anchor who opposing offenses always need to account for. Someone who will always be in the Defensive Player of the Year discussion. It's debatable whether there is one in this draft anyway but if there is, your chances of finding one is with some of the prospects who will be projected to go earlier rather than later.

 

[RonnieT24]

So basically, if you are an organization who is interested in a franchise QB, this idea of not trying to draft at the very top of the draft is not supported, in general. This is not the only reason, of course, there are many, many other reasons why you might want to draft higher but really, if this is the strategy of the team, then you really don't need any more reasons then the one given above.

This team doesn't need a franchise QB because it already has one. This team needs defensive playmakers.. You don't need to be in the top 5 or even the top 10 to find those. Especially in the positions of greatest need for this team. Namely DT, and safety. EVERY NFL team should be "not trying to draft at the top of the draft" because EVERY NFL team should be trying to win every time they kick off on Sunday. TRYING to draft at the top of the draft is not supported, in general. Because it means TRYING to lose which flies in the face of everything most true competitors know and feel about the nature of competition itself. You don't try to lose.. ever.. You don't not give your all.. ever.. I don't want any player or coach associated with my team who doesn't share those two basic beliefs. Ever.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Because it happens every year, guys that teams would like to keep get cut or traded, but it's amplified going into next season with that much less cap space. Some will take a little less to stay but there will be many teams having to make hard decisions. I'm not talking about higher talent, but those mid-tier vets that can help solidify a unit or provide a valuable rotational role. There will be some bargains available in trade with lower round picks than other seasons with teams trying to get under the cap, as well. It will be an interesting off season.

You don't see how silly your explanation is. You seem to think that the smaller cap will affect every team except the Cowboys and that they will be there and able to scoop up these cap casualties. News flash, the smaller cap will also affect the Cowboys too. Teams will be relying on their draft picks and UDFA's both of which will be cheaper to sign than cap casualty vets. So either these cap casualties lower their contract demands to that of a rookie or there may be a large amount of them sitting waiting for injuries during the season so teams will sign them.
.
.

 

[kskboys]

It's my belief that we do have fans that enjoy being "miserable"...constant complaining...and try to encourage others to be/do the same.

Im an assessor and an evaluator and a problem solver. That is the vogue in which I watch the games, and enjoy doing so.

 

[Alexander]

Thing is few if any teams tank on purpose.

This is a game of emotion and pride.

It will happen as a natural course of events if your team and coaching is weak.

 

[kskboys]

And that does not negate the FACT..that if you draft well...you can find good players anywhere.

Or that you can EASILY screw up those high picks.

And that is surely worth losing for.

Of course. And picking closer to the front increases the odds of finding better players.

 

[Roadtrip635]

You don't see how silly your explanation is. You seem to think that the smaller cap will affect every team except the Cowboys and that they will be there and able to scoop up these cap casualties. News flash, the smaller cap will also affect the Cowboys too. Teams will be relying on their draft picks and UDFA's both of which will be cheaper to sign than cap casualty vets. So either these cap casualties lower their contract demands to that of a rookie or there may be a large amount of them sitting waiting for injuries during the season so teams will sign them.
.
.

There will be more cap casualties this year than other seasons and there will be solid players available for less than would have been expected in previous seasons. News Flash, I never once posted how the Cowboys would be able to take advantage of this off season. I simply posted that it will be an interesting off-season because there will be solid players for less than expected. It's silly that you got so bent out of shape over a general comment.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Here is a breakdown of HoF players by round.

https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/hall-of-famers-by-draft-round/

Cherrypicking Cowboys is fun and all but then there is the reality.

 

[Aviano90]

The team doesn’t need to tank because they suck. They are doing just fine losing while trying to win.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I love 538. Here is a graph of draft status x average value over first 5 years.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Note the steepness as you approach the origin.

 

[Captain43Crash]

People kill me coming up with all these scenarios as to why the Cowboys need to play to lose so they can get a better draft pick.. If you watched the special on the top 60 players in franchise history ask yourself how many of them were top 10 picks?

Emmitt? - Nope 17th
Roger? - Not even a first rounder
Witten? - second rounder
Zack Martin - Nope 16th
Dez Bryant - Nope 24th
Larry Allen - Nope - second round
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted
Nate Newton - Undrafted
Erik Williams? - Nope 3rd round
Bob Hayes - Nope 7th round
Drew Pearson - Nope undrafted
Harvey Martin - Nope 3rd round
Demarcus Ware - 11th close..
Michael Irvin? - 11th .
Bob Lilly? - 13th
Romo? - Undrafted
Flozell? - Second rounder.

Yeah.. that list is getting long .. so let's go to the shorter list..

Of the all time 60 greatest Cowboys here are your top 10 picks:

Troy Aikman 1-1
Too-Tall Jones - 1-1
Tony Dorsett - 2nd overall
Randy White - 2nd overall
Zeke - 4th overall
Tyron Smith - 9th overall
Deion - 5 th overall (by the Falcons)

Unless I have missed someone that is the entire list of top 10 overall picks who have turned into great players for the Cowboys. 7 out of 60. In fact there are almost as many undrafted guys on the list as top 10 picks. Point being, there is plenty of talent to be had throughout the draft. You simply need good scouting to find them and good coaching to develop them. I think the Cowboys scouting department has done a pretty good job finding good players.. I'm not sure I can say the same about our ability to coach and develop them over the past two decades. Here's hoping this coaching staff gets better at it. If they don't then it really doesn't matter where or who we draft, this team is going to suck. And we will continue to watch guys go elsewhere and win Super Bowls.. and look good doing it.

You didn’t make your point.

Those top 10 picks were “Special” players. Roger would have been a top 10 pick easily if he didn’t serve his
country for 3-4 years after being drafted.

Deon = best CB ever!

Randy White = top 5 DT all time!

Also, with a 4-5 draft pick we can possibly move down and get 2 later round 1st round picks. Look at all the great players on your list in the middle to late 1st round!