Cowboys’ New All-Time Sack Champions

CowboyRoy · Jul 14, 2021

NickZepp said:
The only real knock on Haley when he got to Dallas was he wasn't healthy. He only played one full season in Dallas. Even in 1995 he missed the last 3 regular season games and first 2 playoff games. Did play a big role in the Super Bowl game though. But as far as impact goes and making big plays and setting the tone for that defense, you are correct. Even though he didn't have the stats for the 92 and 93 seasons he was a big part of that culture change.

Haley transformed that defense.

pete026 · Jul 14, 2021

Aerolithe_Lion said:
You wouldn’t believe the biggest nugget they uncovered. Check out this Bombshell:

Purple People Eaters

8th / Alan Page / 1967-1981 / 148.5
18th / Carl Eller / 1964–1979 / 133.5
22nd / Jim Marshall / 1960-1979 / 130.5

Ladies and Gentleman, the greatest D-line of all time.

I wonder if they took a couple off Marshall's total for his safety lol.

My brother is a Vikings fan so I harass him with stuff like this all the time.

One brother a long-time Packers fan and the other, a Vikings fan. Gotta love that family cohesiveness!

McKDaddy · Jul 14, 2021

terra said:
I have to laugh at those still ragging on Ware.

I don't feel like I'm ragging on Ware but his "sin" in my eyes was that while in Dallas he did not really develop & hone new moves. He simply tried to get around the corner the vast majority of the time (even when it was clear it wasn't effective).

How many times did Eli simply step up & let him go behind him as he marched down the field against us?? It seemed like thousands of times.

But magically when he goes to Denver he starts using a variety of moves and being effective.

I felt like he was the star Defensive player in Dallas and coasted thru the country club atmosphere. In Denver he had to actually perform to get on the field.

SportsGuru80 · Jul 14, 2021

Harvey Martin deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

quickccc · Jul 14, 2021

lkelly said:
Didn't Harvey Martin have a big sack year? I wonder what that total was (if I'm thinking of the right Cowboy). Thought I had read it was 20+.

(Edit: clicked on his name via that link and saw that it was 20 in 1977.)

i thought someone (per Wikipedia) claimed the Cowboys club unofficially stamped 23 sacks in one single season for Harvey.
i think officially DWare still hold the Cowboys record for sacks in a single season as well as Cowboys all time total sacks leader.

SportsGuru80 · Jul 14, 2021

big dog cowboy said:
While I find this interesting and appreciate the work...........it's about dang time!

Exactly... They need to make those stats OFFICIAL.

quickccc · Jul 14, 2021

Hagman said:
Yea, the name for the old Rams front line.

it sure beats " Hot Boyz" term. :muttley:

NickZepp · Jul 14, 2021

xwalker said:
How about the 89 to 91 Eagles with:
Reggie White
Jerome Brown
Clyde Simmons

For reference to those that didn't see those teams, Brown might have been an even better player than White...

White had 23.5 sacks in the USFL. If you include that with his sacks in the NFL he's at over 220 career sacks. Reggie White was averaging around 20 sacks a year in 86-88 so yeah. Jerome Brown only had over 10 sacks once in his career. Where as White only had less than 10 sacks twice in his career. White was the best pass rusher the league has seen.

NickZepp · Jul 14, 2021

SportsGuru80 said:
Exactly... They need to make those stats OFFICIAL.

The problem is a lot of older games have no footage for it. So it makes it harder to get the accurate information. Really a QB sack should have been a stat much earlier. It was already being called that at least a decade before.

NickZepp · Jul 14, 2021

CowboyRoy said:
Haley transformed that defense.

Jimmy Johnson transformed the defense to make it all about speed but Haley brought the attitude.

Irvin88_4life · Jul 14, 2021

Risen Star said:
I'll take Haley. He was nasty and he played best when the games meant the most.

Ware was more talented though.

Well to be fair, Ware didn't have a chance in big games as a Cowboy cause you have to play in championship games and superbowls for that.

Haley on the other hand won 5 superbowls

Pacowboy1968 · Jul 14, 2021

Aerolithe_Lion said:
Recently, Statistic-accumulating website ProFootball-Reference went on the arduous journey of combing through old film and play-by-play scorecards to count all sacks made by defensive players all the way back to 1960.

The reason is because today, only sacks made after the 1982 season are officially acknowledged by the NFL. They haven’t even bothered to research what happened prior to that season. However, since some of the greatest pass rushers who ever lived were at the ends of their careers or outright retired at that point, PFR wanted to rectify the disservice to the older players. For instance:

The greatest season in NFL history, unofficially, was by Arizona Cardinals rookie Al Baker, who amassed 23 sacks in 1978. Strahan’s faux sack of Favre in 2001 never mattered, because it still wasn’t enough. Al Baker started crying when he heard the news.

What won’t come as a surprise to many, Deacon Jones now has monster year after monster year in sack totals on his career stat sheet. He’s third all-time only behind Bruce Smith and the Minister of Defense (unofficially).

But! The meatiest part for you guys: Randy White, Too Tall Jones, Bob Lilly.

Dallas Cowboys all-time Sack Leaders
(career totals may include stats from additional teams)

Name - Sack Total - NFL Rank

Demarcus Ware - 138.5 - 13th
Harvey Martin - 114 - 32nd
Randy White - 111 - 35th
Ed Jones - 106 - 39th
Jim Jeffcoat - 102.5 - 49th
Charles Haley - 100.5 - 52nd
George Andrie - 98.5 - 57th
Jethro Pugh - 96.5 - 63rd
Bob Lilly - 95.5 - 68th

For me, this is incredibly interesting. Hopefully some of you feel as rewarded as I do by their hard work.

Imagine if Too Tall hadn't missed time due to his boxing career. I always felt he was underrated

Az Lurker · Jul 14, 2021

Aerolithe_Lion said:
You wouldn’t believe the biggest nugget they uncovered. Check out this Bombshell:

Purple People Eaters

8th / Alan Page / 1967-1981 / 148.5
18th / Carl Eller / 1964–1979 / 133.5
22nd / Jim Marshall / 1960-1979 / 130.5

Ladies and Gentleman, the greatest D-line of all time.

My mother lived in Minnesota during those years and tells a story about walking backwards on a street talking to her friends when she ran into what she thought was a public mailbox but turned out to be Alan Page

Flamma · Jul 14, 2021

lkelly said:
Didn't Harvey Martin have a big sack year? I wonder what that total was (if I'm thinking of the right Cowboy). Thought I had read it was 20+.

(Edit: clicked on his name via that link and saw that it was 20 in 1977.)

I'm pretty sure I was watching a week 13 Cowboys game of 1977 against the 49ers when a statistic came up at the bottom of the screen that said Harvey Martin current had 23 sacks. Don't know if he got any against Denver in the final week.

dwmyers · Jul 14, 2021

One thing to keep in mind is that on a per game basis, guys like Bob Lilly had fewer chances to rush the passer. Run plays were hovering around 60% of all plays then.

Be nice if those stats could be converted to sacks per pass attempt. Might give you a better feel for how well they rushed the passer.

D-

Bobhaze · Jul 14, 2021

lkelly said:
Didn't Harvey Martin have a big sack year? I wonder what that total was (if I'm thinking of the right Cowboy). Thought I had read it was 20+.

(Edit: clicked on his name via that link and saw that it was 20 in 1977.)

Yeah and Harvey Martin did that in a 14 game season.

Bobhaze · Jul 14, 2021

SportsGuru80 said:
Harvey Martin deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

At least the ROH. He’s already in the Texas Sports HOF.

NickZepp · Jul 14, 2021

Harvey Martin and Too Tall Jones should both be in the ring together. Martin was the better pass rusher for his time in the league and Jones was just so consistent over a long time. Martin may have been the best overall pass rusher during that period. Fred Dean was up there. Lee Roy Selmon was a top guy around that time, Jack Youngblood was probably the best in that era statistically but Martin is certainly in the top of that class. The late 80s early 90s had the game changed by LT, White, Bruce and Greene completely redefined and put sacks on a different level.

What's amazing is all those late 80s-90s guys are just so far above everyone. It'll probably be several more years before we see guys get close to that numbers. Aaron Donald probably will end up close, but nobody else is really on pace. If Von Miller can have a few more years like he had in his prime he could get over 150. JJ Watt has only had 1 season over 10 sacks since 2015 so I don't see him getting a ton more even if he plays 4 or 5 more years. Maybe he ends around 130ish. 150 sacks is gonna be pretty rare for a while.

JD_KaPow · Jul 14, 2021

CowboyRoy said:
Interestingly i recall only ONE big sack that Ware made when it mattered. That sack fumble in the New Orleans game when Romo was playing. Might have been in overtime or at the end of the game to seal the victory. As many sacks as he had, he wasnt a guy that typically turned it on when it mattered most.

That says a lot more about your memory and expectations than it does about Ware.

It's always better to NOT need big plays at the end of the game. You do that by building up leads early, and sacks play a big part in that. Early game sacks always come "when it matters." I want a guy who shows up all game, personally,
One-quarter of Ware's sacks as a Cowboy came in the 4th quarter, which I would think is slightly more than you would expect (in blowouts, either the other team is running all the time by then or you're in a prevent rushing 3, or you're sitting starters, so there are fewer opportunities). And a number of those were critical.
He sacked McNabb on 3rd down at midfield with 1:30 left to preserve a 4-point lead. He sacked Eli at the Dallas 21 in the 4th quarter to keep them from scoring and preserve a 4-point lead. He sacked Warner on 3rd down with less than 2 minutes left in a game the Cowboys trailed by a field goal to give them a chance to come back (which they did). That's just a couple random examples.

JD_KaPow · Jul 14, 2021

CowboyRoy said:
Ill take Haley over Ware all day and every day. Haley, although he had less sacks overall would get that big sack when we needed at key points in big games. He was an emotional leader on the defense. Had that edge and put people in place in the locker room when needed.

From 1994-1996 (you can't search individual plays easily before that), Haley had 24 sacks as a Cowboy. One (1) of them came in the 4th quarter of a close game. He did have the sack-fumble in the Super Bowl, of course, but in a game that ended 52-17, I suppose we could argue about how big a play that was. He had one sack total in the 1994-1996 postseasons.

Cowboys’ New All-Time Sack Champions

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