Vick vs Prescott?

kskboys · May 12, 2022

Proof said:
yeah "knock it off" is something you say when someone says something goofy and you're jokingly highlighting it in a way that's not disrespectful. kinda that opposite of your approach, but we can't all be gentlemen.

but anywho, ironic? no. more of concerted and dramatic effort to improve on Roddy's end. Here it is from his own mouth though:

One person who worked for the Falcons at the time White first arrived admitted the brass in Flowery Branch had a huge case of buyer's remorse after they saw White in his first training camp and through most of his first two seasons. That person said there was a moment during White’s rookie season when an assistant coach stood up in a meeting and said White simply wasn’t good enough to play in the NFL and there was no argument in response.

“I guess the easiest way to put it was that I just finally grew up,’’ White said.

That’s the simple way to put it, but White is quick to point out that it was much more complex than that. He’s even quicker to point out that he had some help.

“I’d gone through life just getting by on being a good natural athlete,’’ White said. “That’s the way I approached it my first two years and, in the NFL, it’s not good enough to just be an athlete.’’

“When coach [Jim] Mora and his guys were here, I was eating a lot of cheeseburgers and going at about 215 [pounds],’’ White said. “When Paul Petrino came in, he sat me down and said, 'You need to get back to where you were in college.' I got back to around 205 to 208 and I suddenly realized I was moving faster and jumping higher. But it wasn’t just that. Paul Petrino worked me so hard and pushed me to string together good practices, go out there and do it every day.’’

Paul Petrino got some help from another source. In 2007, the Falcons brought in veteran wide receiver Joe Horn, in large part because they weren’t sure if White could play. But Horn ended up being part of the reason White has been playing so well in recent years.

“Playing with Joe was the best thing to ever happen to me,’’ White said. “He was a guy who had been to Pro Bowls and he took me under his wing and really taught me what this league is all about. He’s the one who made me realize what’s expected of you if you’re going to be a good pro. He’s the one who taught me that you have to prepare mentally every day and you have to go out and practice hard every day. He’s the one who showed me that this game takes so much more effort than I was putting into it.’’

It was disrespectful. Try again.

Proof · May 12, 2022

kskboys said:
It was disrespectful. Try again.

trust me, it wasn't. all good. convo has run it's course.

kskboys · May 12, 2022

DCowboyz said:
I'd always choose Mike Vick because well he's my favorite QB of all time. I think he would have been a better passer if he didn't end up in prison.

Don't see how. The two years before Vick left the Falcons, they had degraded into a mediocre team w/ Vick having been exposed and relegated to a gimmick.

61-51-1. Vick's record as a starter. The overglorifying of this mediocre starter is puzzling.

kskboys · May 12, 2022

Proof said:
trust me, it wasn't. all good. convo has run it's course.

The Trust me thing is both sadly humorous and ironic.

LACowboysFan1 · May 12, 2022

kskboys said:
Don't see how. The two years before Vick left the Falcons, they had degraded into a mediocre team w/ Vick having been exposed and relegated to a gimmick.

61-51-1. Vick's record as a starter. The overglorifying of this mediocre starter is puzzling.

Hey, he was "exciting"!

:laugh:

kskboys · May 12, 2022

LACowboysFan1 said:
Hey, he was "exciting"!

That he was!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we're all guilty at times of overrating our childhood heroes!!!!

There was a guy a few years ago who just swore Bill Bates was a pro bowl type S!!!

RonnieT24 · May 12, 2022

kskboys said:
Don't see how. The two years before Vick left the Falcons, they had degraded into a mediocre team w/ Vick having been exposed and relegated to a gimmick.

61-51-1. Vick's record as a starter. The overglorifying of this mediocre starter is puzzling.

This is always a flawed to go to.. Eli Manning was 117-117 as a starter.. So Vick was better than a two time Super Bowl champ and future hall of famer? Vick was a great player for a minute. Nothing more, nothing less. He never developed to where he needed to be as a passer. You may not want to believe it, but before he went to San Francisco.. Steve Young was Michael Vick.. Strong arm, 4.3 speed, marvelous athlete and no idea how to really play the position of QB. It took the great Bill Walsh almost 3 years to fix him. Maybe he could have fixed Vick too.. We'll never know.

kskboys · May 12, 2022

RonnieT24 said:
This is always a flawed to go to.. Eli Manning was 117-117 as a starter.. So Vick was better than a two time Super Bowl champ and future hall of famer? Vick was a great player for a minute. Nothing more, nothing less. He never developed to where he needed to be as a passer. You may not want to believe it, but before he went to San Francisco.. Steve Young was Michael Vick.. Strong arm, 4.3 speed, marvelous athlete and no idea how to really play the position of QB. It took the great Bill Walsh almost 3 years to fix him. Maybe he could have fixed Vick too.. We'll never know.

Disagree w/ great, but go along w/ everything else.

Young was always a good passer, he just took off too soon. You may not believe it, but Young's rushing attempts did not go down, they went up, culminating in a high of 76 attempts in 1992, his 8th year in the league, his 6th w/ Walsh. What changed was him going through progressions first and picking his times to run much better.

RonnieT24 · May 12, 2022

kskboys said:
Disagree w/ great, but go along w/ everything else.

Young was always a good passer, he just took off too soon. You may not believe it, but Young's rushing attempts did not go down, they went up, culminating in a high of 76 attempts in 1992, his 8th year in the league, his 6th w/ Walsh. What changed was him going through progressions first and picking his times to run much better.

A couple of things.. the only reason his high of attempts went up in 1992 was that was the first time he started 16 games. The 4.8 rushes per game that year were only the 4th highest of his career. And remember Walsh left the 49ers after the '89 Super Bowl and handed over the reins to Seifert. But absolutely.. maturing with going through reads and knowing when to let the ball go was what got things to finally click for him. He was 31 when that all came together for him. Guys like him are the #1 reason why I laugh at people declaring that "Dak can never be..." all the time. QBs who will do the work will continue to get better until their bodies start to break down. For all his purported flaws as a passer, Dak is already light years ahead of what Young was when he came into the league.. but he's also not getting tutored by Bill Walsh..

kskboys · May 12, 2022

RonnieT24 said:
A couple of things.. the only reason his high of attempts went up in 1992 was that was the first time he started 16 games. The 4.8 rushes per game that year were only the 4th highest of his career. And remember Walsh left the 49ers after the '89 Super Bowl and handed over the reins to Seifert. But absolutely.. maturing with going through reads and knowing when to let the ball go was what got things to finally click for him. He was 31 when that all came together for him. Guys like him are the #1 reason why I laugh at people declaring that "Dak can never be..." all the time. QBs who will do the work will continue to get better until their bodies start to break down. For all his purported flaws as a passer, Dak is already light years ahead of what Young was when he came into the league.. but he's also not getting tutored by Bill Walsh..

This is always a flawed go to!!!!!!

Exceptions don't make rules. Most players are what they're going to be around 3-4 years into their careers.

aikemirv · May 12, 2022

I don't know why anyone would try to compare Dak with Vick - that's just stupid. Now the comparison would be Vick to Lamar Jackson because he is the only one closest to Vicks athletic skills. They are probably about equal in running ability. I go back and forth on Jacksons throwing ability. Some games he looks good and others he is horrid - must just be poor mechanics!

Proof · May 12, 2022

kskboys said:
The Trust me thing is both sadly humorous and ironic.

you don’t seem to know how to properly utilize ironic. “trust me” is because I know how to be disrespectful and that definitely was not it. we disagreed and that was that. had no reason or desire to be disrespectful, and it wouldn’t need interpretation if i were.

RonnieT24 · May 12, 2022

kskboys said:
This is always a flawed go to!!!!!!

Exceptions don't make rules. Most players are what they're going to be around 3-4 years into their careers.

For other positions maybe but QB is a different animal. Young is far from some isolated example. There is LOOONG list of QBs who had their best seasons north of their 30th birthday. Some of the great ones like Elway, Montana, Rodgers, Young, Brady, Manning et al but also a lot of borderline JAGS.. Chris Chandler, Matt Ryan, Jeff Garcia, Rich Gannon, Tony Romo, Randall Cunningham, Trent Dilfer, Vinny Testaverde. And those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Because the QB position is so very much mental it's folly to expect that every one of them will learn what they need to learn at the exact same pace. Not only do THEY all have different mental acuity but they all have different teachers too!! Then you factor in where they came from in college.. The systems and demands their college offenses made of them. Some guys play in pro style offenses that are balanced some guys play in sling it every down offenses.. some guys hand off 50 times a game.. others run it themselves 20 times a game.

I've said many times that Dak probably falls close to that last group. Mullen used him as a throwing fullback at MSU and sent him to the NFL with awful throwing mechanics.. But Dak put in the work to become a better passer and continues to do so.. The injuries stunted his progress in 2020/2021.. but when he WAS actually healthy you could see that he had taken some huge leaps forward as a passer. But he's still does not possess naturally refined mechanics so he needs to be working on them every single day. When the calf robbed him of the ability to go through the footwork drills to the extent that he needed to we all saw the regression in his footwork, accuracy and overall game. People like to point to "cover 2" neutering our offense but what really neutered our offense was Dak's right lower leg.

atlantacowboy · May 12, 2022

Silly comparison. Totally different QBs in style and ability. Vick was a phenom athlete of rare ability. He was Lamar Jackson before Lamar Jackson. But that style of play only gets you so far in the playoffs when teams shut down the ability of the QB to run and force them to pass from the pocket. Dak isn't better than either. He is too slow to outrun anyone and struggles completing passes against defenses that bring the pressure. His numbers our the result of running up scores in blowouts, and playing catch-up against defenses designed to kill clock.

Motorola · May 12, 2022

kskboys said:
Don't see how. The two years before Vick left the Falcons, they had degraded into a mediocre team w/ Vick having been exposed and relegated to a gimmick.

61-51-1. Vick's record as a starter. The overglorifying of this mediocre starter is puzzling.

What limited Vick's career also was his lack of work effort to become a better QB during practices, film sessions, etc. Relied too much on his athletic abilities instead of focusing to improve the skills, mindset, and drive needed for being a complete NFL QB.
He also as enabled by his HC Jim L. Mora....he seldom pushed Vick, and at times coddled him.

G2 · May 12, 2022

erod said:
You simply don't understand football. You're not alone.

Yeah, you have a firm grasp of reality, lol. What's next? Your "eye test?"
Let me guess, "you played football?"
:laugh:

Anyone who is seriously trying to make a case in favor of Vick over Prescott AS A QB, regardless of rushing yards, criminal past and overall douchebaggery toward animals deserves to be laughed at.

There's plenty to discuss in terms of realistic arguments about Prescott's Pros & Cons, why go so hard in the paint defending Vick?

G2 · May 12, 2022

Section446 said:
One guy changed the game, the other is just a dude.

Lol

G2 · May 12, 2022

kskboys said:
Don't see how. The two years before Vick left the Falcons, they had degraded into a mediocre team w/ Vick having been exposed and relegated to a gimmick.

61-51-1. Vick's record as a starter. The overglorifying of this mediocre starter is puzzling.

It's only because he never put up numbers in garbage time, lol
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to hear that here.

aikemirv · May 12, 2022

Motorola said:
What limited Vick's career also was his lack of work effort to become a better QB during practices, film sessions, etc. Relied too much on his athletic abilities instead of focusing to improve the skills, mindset, and drive needed for being a complete NFL QB.
He also as enabled by his HC Jim L. Mora....he seldom pushed Vick, and at times coddled him.

He really had no touch either.

SteveTheCowboy · May 12, 2022

DCowboyz said:
I'd always choose Mike Vick because well he's my favorite QB of all time. I think he would have been a better passer if he didn't end up in prison.

This could be the comment of the year.

Vick vs Prescott?

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