CFZ Are we undervaluing the defense?

The offense isn’t going to be as good this season so the defense is going to have to be better. We can’t rely on takeaways to get offenses off the field because we’re not likely to have as many this season. We have to become more physical upfront defensively. The Cowboys are banking on Neville Gallimore staying healthy and becoming a force.

CouchCoach said:

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

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I think we have a good defense.
When you compare it to the prior season
It's really incredible the improvement

CouchCoach said:

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

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Biggest weakness the defense had last year was allowing 4.5 yard per rush, 23rd in the league. In the playoff game, Mitchell and Deebo rushed for 168 yards on 37 tries - that's 4.5 yards per rush. They possessed the ball for 34 minutes, keeping their defense fresh and pressuring our offense.

Takeaways are great, but you can lead the league one year and be middle of the pack the next - with the same players/scheme. There's simply an element of luck involved, so you don't want to be too reliant on them. With guys like Parsons and Diggs I still expect the Cowboys will get their share.

Jake said:

Biggest weakness the defense had last year was allowing 4.5 yard per rush, 23rd in the league. In the playoff game, Mitchell and Deebo rushed for 168 yards on 37 tries - that's 4.5 yards per rush. They possessed the ball for 34 minutes, keeping their defense fresh and pressuring our offense.

Takeaways are great, but you can lead the league one year and be middle of the pack the next - with the same players/scheme. There's simply an element of luck involved, so you don't want to be too reliant on them. With guys like Parsons and Diggs I still expect the Cowboys will get their share.

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the young guys on the line have to show growth...its really that simple either we have drafted well or we have not. But yeah when a team can run on you its the biggest problem you have on the whole team. Same with the O-line, no other team needs 5 1st round picks to make an offense work....if the center gets pushed back all game again in his 3rd year, well thats an issue.

CouchCoach said:

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

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I agree wholeheartedly! Besides Parsons and Diggs, I see a bounce back year from Lawrence, more contributions from Gallimore, Armstrong, Joseph and Odigazuwa, and I like Williams and Ridgeway. Not only that, but we kept Kearse, and Cox is coming back.

I see 2 or 3 Pro Bowlers, with 3 or 4 more POTENTIAL Pro Bowlers. How good could a defense be with 7 or 8 Pro Bowlers? Quinn’s no dummy. Why would he leave now?

Cowpolk said:

As long as Jerry is still the Capitan this ship is not going down.

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You button pusher!✊

CouchCoach said:

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

Click to expand...

A massive YES as how many times have we held opponents to under 20 pts and still lost the game????

CouchCoach said:

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

Click to expand...

I see the defense improving. Ill take Williams and Fowler over Gregory. Maybe not early, but 2nd half of the year into the next couple years. And we saved 14 million doing it.

People are overblowing the loss of Cooper. We are more than prepared for his loss.

Ill take Steele over Collins and Smith blows away Williams.

The big issue for me is still the Oline. I dont think the changes we made were enough. This is going to be another year or two rebuild if we do things right. Adn we still have the slow and predictable Zeke in the run game.

Diehardblues said:

Gregory was probably a factor in our defense . How much is yet to be seen. And we haven’t seen Lawrence play a full season in years. The possibility of not having either for any amount of time could be impactful. Not sure Parsons could make up that loss.

And what will the impact be to our secondary if our pass rush isn’t as strong . It all starts up front and if our cornerstone pieces are out or not as strong then our defense is lessened. We shall see.

But boy howdy, my first take from this OP was we could walk thru brick walls. I’m fired up . Lol

As far as our DC, I think he didn’t get he job offer he was wanting . Like in Denver. He knows he must go to a team that can win right away or his HC career could be over . And the OP is probably right in that another year here with this defense provides an opportunity to up the anty. But it could go the other way too.

This is a risky place with our dysfunctional ownership and toxic atmosphere to be counting on it place you in a better position to move up. Personally I’d advise him to get out ASAP. Or he could go down with the ship .

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Since when has Gregory ever been a cornerstone? The guy still missed like 5 games and he only had 6.5 sacks. I think Williams in the 2nd half of the year makes up for that.

My issue is the run defense. Until they can shut down the run, we will have problems being a top defense.

Sydla said:

23 points in the playoffs isn't that impressive as they faced a middling offense with an average QB. I wouldn't put a ton of value into what the defense did in the playoffs.

Overall, the defense still has the same issues/questions:

• Where are the playmakers up the middle, especially at DT (Parsons isn't playing MLB every down)?
• Can they stop the run when it counts (they couldn't against the 49ers)?
• Can they rush the passer at a high level (even with Parsons, they still were middle of pack in sacks/pressures)?

They had a historic year in creating turnovers which masked a lot of their other defensive issues. What happens if this defense can't keep up that torrid pace in creating turnovers? I suspect if this team comes back to earth in the turnover department, this D could end up giving up points and yards like they did in previous years. This defense seems built on getting turnovers. If they don't, I suspect the lack of real talent at DT and the inability to be a dominant pass rush team will hurt them.

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Ill take that bet!

CouchCoach said:

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

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Didn't care for Gregory but reality was he was one of the few defensive linemen that actually started at least 10 games (Hill was injured/is a bust, Gallimore injured, D-law once again injured).

D-line has had very little consistency and is basically running on the hope that these young guys develop.

Add in the weak linebacker depth and the fact that those interceptions/turnovers where cool but historically hard to duplicate performances season after season and here we are basically a question mark on value

Jake said:

Biggest weakness the defense had last year was allowing 4.5 yard per rush, 23rd in the league. In the playoff game, Mitchell and Deebo rushed for 168 yards on 37 tries - that's 4.5 yards per rush. They possessed the ball for 34 minutes, keeping their defense fresh and pressuring our offense.

Takeaways are great, but you can lead the league one year and be middle of the pack the next - with the same players/scheme. There's simply an element of luck involved, so you don't want to be too reliant on them. With guys like Parsons and Diggs I still expect the Cowboys will get their share.

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Agreed.

If takeaways even become middle of the pack then that will be a huge blow. Linebacker depth is weak. The only starter (not backup or rotational guy) d-lineman that played over 10 games last year is no longer even on the roster.

Hard to say the Defense is undervalued when it's basically gonna be a dice throw on how they play

ESisback said:

You button pusher!✊

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I have these sudden mood swings did not start happening until I was 3 or 4 years old

PAPPYDOG said:

A massive YES as how many times have we held opponents to under 20 pts and still lost the game????

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I remember the Saints game. It reached the point whereby the only way the Cowboys could lose the game in the 4th quarter was if Prescott kept throwing the ball...he almost blew it but the D saved him from himself.

Swagger said:

I remember the Saints game. It reached the point whereby the only way the Cowboys could lose the game in the 4th quarter was if Prescott kept throwing the ball...he almost blew it but the D saved him from himself.

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Yep with fewer Cap dollars, the Defense has held their own the last 6 years (Just like the Niner game) but unfortunately, the cap FAT offense of ours lays eggs and the Cowboys lose!

Straight up...yes. It'll be a strength.

Sydla said:

23 points in the playoffs isn't that impressive as they faced a middling offense with an average QB. I wouldn't put a ton of value into what the defense did in the playoffs.

Overall, the defense still has the same issues/questions:

• Where are the playmakers up the middle, especially at DT (Parsons isn't playing MLB every down)?
• Can they stop the run when it counts (they couldn't against the 49ers)?
• Can they rush the passer at a high level (even with Parsons, they still were middle of pack in sacks/pressures)?

They had a historic year in creating turnovers which masked a lot of their other defensive issues. What happens if this defense can't keep up that torrid pace in creating turnovers? I suspect if this team comes back to earth in the turnover department, this D could end up giving up points and yards like they did in previous years. This defense seems built on getting turnovers. If they don't, I suspect the lack of real talent at DT and the inability to be a dominant pass rush team will hurt them.

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this bottom line

they won’t have the same number if TOs

they have to show me they can stop the run and pressure the passer with the front 4

they need to show they can keep it up in November and December

then I’ll buy into this defense

CouchCoach said:

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent

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This is key........I've said many times, that our best offseason signing was Quinn. He and Parsons raised the level of play for nearly every defensive player. In other words, I have no concern about the defense. We're a day-one top 10 D, maybe top 5 by mid-seasons.

Bobhaze said:

As you pointed out CC, no Cowboys team has ever played in a SB without an excellent defense. You have to have a good offense too obviously. But without a defense that can make key stops at key moments, the offense can’t do it alone.

And…It’s so often forgotten how good the defenses were for the last two SB winners. The 2020 Tampa Bay defense was what carried that team to the SB. Yes they have the GOAT at QB. But TBs defense saved Brady’s bacon in the NFC championship game when he threw 3 INTs and almost personally cost them the game. It was the TB defense that kept Aaron Rodgers out of the end zone late in the game to seal the win.

Look at the rams D last year. When they absolutely had to stop Joe Burrow and the bengals, they got huge plays from Aaron Donald and Von Miller. Without a stout defense, the rams don’t win the SB. This is after shutting down Brady and the Bucs offense earlier.

We certainly have more talent on the defense than we’ve had in over a decade. Parsons, Diggs, and some other youngsters could and probably should be better than last year. Dan Quinn appears to be the most capable DC we’ve had in a long time. This will be a very interesting year for the defense. They may be a big surprise. We’re less than 90 days from the 2022 season’s start.

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Since Quinn got here, our D drafting has changed. We are now drafting big meanies up front instead of ballet dancers. To to mention having actual S's on the roster!!!

CouchCoach said:

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

Click to expand...

Since 1994 the Arlington Jonesboys have done the opposite of the Dallas Cowboys and under valued defense.

Some interesting question from this time last season:

• Is Diggs a legit no.1 CB and are Brown/Lewis good enough until the rookies develop?

I think prevailing opinion was that while Diggs showed plenty of promise as a rookie (particularly with takeaways), it was asking a lot for him to be the no.1 while Brown/Lewis presented an underwhelming floor that we can only hope a rookie could surpass if the CB's were to be semi-decent. Diggs was an All-Pro takeaway machine and after a poor showing in the AB vs AB matchup, Brown was extremely consistent, same with Lewis and the rookies never really got a look in.

Heading into the 2022 season you've got to be pretty confident in the starting three CB's with upside coming from the 2nd year players, and even Diggs could (and should) be more consistent in general play even if it's a tall order to match the takeaways. There's areas we should be much better and more consistent.

• Can Wilson and the cheap vets provide enough at safety?

I think it's fair to say we had a lot of worries about safety going into the season. We paid a pittance for Kearse, Kazee, and Hooker at if you expected output comparable to their salary than we were screwed. Considering the price, the output was nothing short of extraordinary. Wilson was injury most of the season (starting just three games) but it wasn't really felt with solid, consistent safety play, particularly from Kearse.

This season we lost Kazee but I think it's fair to say the general consensus is that we should be pretty good at safety. Particularly if Wilson can get back to his 2020 performances where he had plenty of impact plays and Hooker can continue to progress from the achilies injury. Mukuamu, if he can do anything, would be a nice bonus.

• Will our Interior D-line hold up with Gallimore, rookies and JAG vets?

My recollection is being pretty frustrated at the (near vet minimum) contracts for Urban and Watkins, we also only investing a 6th on a 1-tech in the draft. I think the frustration was pretty universal for Cowboy fans. I was okay with Gallimore, Hill, and Odigi at 3T, at least they were prospects, but I couldn't fathom the lack of investment at 1-tech. It turned out that even hit by pretty sever injuries, we held up okay throughout the season, but ultimately run defense played a big part in the loss to the 49ers just as so many expected it to at the beginning of the season .

This season is a little more of the same. I'm again pretty underwhelmed with investment at 1 tech which is just a 5th on Ridgeway, and 1m deal for Watkins return. But at least we have bigger guys on the D-line now. Gallimore, Odigi, and Golston have packed on some weight, a 2nd year Bohanna should be better in his fringe role, and may even be upgraded with Ridgeway......I'm not saying run defense will be good, or that investment was adequate, but it should be better than 2021, the group should be healthier, and I do think we will see some natural progression in the interior pass rush.

• Can we get consistent pressure from our edge rushers?

Most I think expected Lawrence to be consistent and there was a bullish expectation for Gregory to be come a starter. This one was area we though we might be okay (at least with the starters). I don't think many thought much of the rotation though. It turned out that Lawrence missing most of the season, Gregory did deliver on expectations (though still missed 5 games) but the rotation (lead by Dorrance Armstrong) surprised and was able to provide solid contribution. But really, it was Micah that was the saving grace, with his impact felt across the entire defense.

This year I'm hopeful we can get more from Lawrence, that Armstrong continues to develop from a steady 2021, and that we can get okay production from the rotation (Fowler Jnr, S.Williams, T.Basham). But IMO this team lives and dies by the performances of Micah Parsons and there's no reason to think he won't continue to perform. Gregory got just one sack in the second half of the season and was a liability in the playoffs with his penalties. It's probably asking a bit much for 3m Fowler Jnr and 2nd round Sam Williams to match the impact of Randy Gregory who got 14m per season but IMO the group going into 2022 looks better to me than 2021, particularly when you factor the injuries we suffered and what was great promise but unreliable performance from Gregory.

All in all, we've got bigger guys in the middle, we can expect 2nd year improvement from the 2021 rookies, and given the ridiculous number of injuries in 2021, we should be better on that front. The downside risk is the sheer number of interceptions will be tough to match. But play to play we should be more consistent in terms of pressure and run stopping at the line of scrimmage, and in theory that should translate into a better defense overall.