CFZ Are we undervaluing the defense?

[kskboys]

the young guys on the line have to show growth...its really that simple either we have drafted well or we have not. But yeah when a team can run on you its the biggest problem you have on the whole team. Same with the O-line, no other team needs 5 1st round picks to make an offense work....if the center gets pushed back all game again in his 3rd year, well thats an issue.

We brought in 2 more C's, so maybe one will be better, if that's the case.

 

[TequilaCowboy]

I am not as worried about the defense as much as i am about the offense. I believe the defense has the capability of being top 5 should some of these guys develop quickly and DQ calling the shots. The offense is a different story, the OC is over his head once he comes up against the better teams in the NFL, or they have figured him out. Dak is inconsistent against the better teams as well, teams know how to confuse him and he has his worse games. Special teams is usually a wash. We shall see how it turns out. That's why they play the game.

 

[Pass2Run]

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

Amen.

That's what makes me excited about this team: the defense. I want to do everything I can to help this defense.

 

[MyFairLady]

Shipping Gregory and bringing in some more youth can only help the defense take another step forward. Players like Gallimore, Osa taking a step forward is what will help the defense. I would love to include Joseph in that list but I still have my doubts.

 

[Crown Royal]

So many things went right for the defense last year.

• Parsons being better than expected
• Diggs Turnovers
• Relative health of the secondary

I HOPE the trend continues, but the defense overperformed EVERYONE'S expectations, we can only hope it continues.

 

[Sydla]

Ill take that bet!

What bet? I didn't make a prognostication. I said the defense largely succeeded last year because they forced a ton of turnovers. Forcing turnvoers at the rate they did can mask other problems. If we fall back to earth in terms of our turnover rate, unfortunately, I think the flaws in the defense (like DT play) are going to be way more pronounced.

 

[quickccc]

Thanks for Sharing ..

Despite the Quinn -hybrid scheme and defense leading the entire NFL in takeaways turnovers, we still showed vulnerable vs the run,
..and still had too many breakdowns in our bend don’t break scheme.
When it came to teams managing to stay alive in games that we should’ve finished – and as always the case, come playoff time,
the defense is gonna be our downfall at some point and extent.

- Once again we were “ out-physical” by opposing team.
Couldn’t stop the run vs more competitive teams that could run the ball, and it came back to bite us again in playoffs.
A WR just dipping and dancing all thru our defense,.. .

- Love Diggs INT skills but he can be had in coverage, as he is a give-take opportunistic CB who will also give up big plays.

- I don’t see teams successfully game-planning vs Parsons with the way Quinn moves him around so often.
The more effective support cast Micah has, more effective he will be, imo.

- BTW, I keep hearing this board rant on “ Ridgeway, Ridgeway” as if he is gonna be the end all band-aid for this questionable run defense.
It’s very possible that he doesn’t even start. Not like this is 1st rounder Jordan Davis.

What I am glad is, low regarded late round as it was, the Cowboys did not totally ignore the 1 tech role with the drafting of Ridgeway, (albeit late round)
Ditto with Bohanna – speaking of Quinton, we had high hopes for Bohanna just as we do now with Ridgeway.

Instead of more established, heralded 1 tech vet for bigger bucks, Stephen wants a Money Ball cheaper route.
Our improvement vs run has to go beyond than laying it in the hands of one guy, ..one late round rookie at that.

We still have to have other guys stepping it up, the other DTs, ..the DEs … the LBs ... it's more than the DL, but it does start up front.

 

[ESisback]

What bet? I didn't make a prognostication. I said the defense largely succeeded last year because they forced a ton of turnovers. Forcing turnvoers at the rate they did can mask other problems. If we fall back to earth in terms of our turnover rate, unfortunately, I think the flaws in the defense (like DT play) are going to be way more pronounced.

But we SHOULD be better at DT…Gallimore, Odiggy, Hill, Big Bo—a bigger contribution from each should help. They retained Watkins and drafted Ridgeway—a better rotation, coupled with a better pass rush….

but I’m an optimist.

 

[Sydla]

But we SHOULD be better at DT…Gallimore, Odiggy, Hill, Big Bo—a bigger contribution from each should help. They retained Watkins and drafted Ridgeway—a better rotation, coupled with a better pass rush….

but I’m an optimist.

Better doesn't equate to "good enough". We simply lack a playmaker in the middle like other top level defenses have.

 

[CouchCoach]

But we SHOULD be better at DT…Gallimore, Odiggy, Hill, Big Bo—a bigger contribution from each should help. They retained Watkins and drafted Ridgeway—a better rotation, coupled with a better pass rush….

but I’m an optimist.

The problem is they do not put a premium on drafting DT's or S's. It's like the OL, if it's a 1st? Pretty good chance. After that? Not much.

Booger leans toward CBs, and would have taken one over Parsons if he'd been there, DE's and the occasional LB.

Stopping the run begins with the hourglass of DT's, MLB and S's. Stop the shortest distance to the end zone. The Bears 85, Ravens 00 and Bucs 03 all had that covered.

The Cowboys have not taken a DT in the 1st since Jimmy Johnson did it.

They hit on Jay Ratliff but that is not the norm at all.

And he is so taken with the passing game he allows his team to lose on the ground, especially in the playoffs. McVay did it with no names.

Like you, I am hopeful these young guys can stay healthy long enough to see what they've got.

 

[ESisback]

Better doesn't equate to "good enough". We simply lack a playmaker in the middle like other top level defenses have.

Maybe not, but better at DT and better at pass rush helps the secondary become better. It all translates into a BETTER defense, which I refuse to frown at. Be unhappy if you want…

 

[CowboyFrog]

The problem is they do not put a premium on drafting DT's or S's. It's like the OL, if it's a 1st? Pretty good chance. After that? Not much.

Booger leans toward CBs, and would have taken one over Parsons if he'd been there, DE's and the occasional LB.

Stopping the run begins with the hourglass of DT's, MLB and S's. Stop the shortest distance to the end zone. The Bears 85, Ravens 00 and Bucs 03 all had that covered.

The Cowboys have not taken a DT in the 1st since Jimmy Johnson did it.

They hit on Jay Ratliff but that is not the norm at all.

And he is so taken with the passing game he allows his team to lose on the ground, especially in the playoffs. McVay did it with no names.

Like you, I am hopeful these young guys can stay healthy long enough to see what they've got.

Really asking this, in the last 3 to 5 drafts did they have a 1st round talent DT they should've took instead if who they did. Dont remeber so honestly asking. (Mind you take the guy they did pick off the team)

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

We as fans are not undervaluing the defense, the Joneses are. Quinn and McCarthy have done nice jobs influencing the Joneses to upgrade the defense, these last couple of drafts. So we are headed in the right direction...for now. Hopefully McCarthy can exert some influence on Moore's play calling this year also.

 

[ESisback]

The problem is they do not put a premium on drafting DT's or S's. It's like the OL, if it's a 1st? Pretty good chance. After that? Not much.

Booger leans toward CBs, and would have taken one over Parsons if he'd been there, DE's and the occasional LB.

Stopping the run begins with the hourglass of DT's, MLB and S's. Stop the shortest distance to the end zone. The Bears 85, Ravens 00 and Bucs 03 all had that covered.

The Cowboys have not taken a DT in the 1st since Jimmy Johnson did it.

They hit on Jay Ratliff but that is not the norm at all.

And he is so taken with the passing game he allows his team to lose on the ground, especially in the playoffs. McVay did it with no names.

Like you, I am hopeful these young guys can stay healthy long enough to see what they've got.

I agree that DT is the key to stopping the run. We may have the solution already—just needed time to develop. Then again, maybe not. We’ll see. I’m just not gonna stress over it.

 

[CouchCoach]

I agree that DT is the key to stopping the run. We may have the solution already—just needed time to develop. Then again, maybe not. We’ll see. I’m just not gonna stress over it.

Naaaah, I am not stressed over that at all. If this season is to be a special one, I think that comes down to the defense.

Quinn might have to commit more of Parsons to the run game than crashing the pocket. He's a damned good weapon against the run when he used for that. I wanted them to draft him for that purpose, the pass rushing became a bonus.,

 

[Haimerej]

Really asking this, in the last 3 to 5 drafts did they have a 1st round talent DT they should've took instead if who they did. Dont remeber so honestly asking. (Mind you take the guy they did pick off the team)

They could've taken A'Shawn Robinson instead of Jaylon.

 

[quickccc]

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

- Why did we have our 2nd half struggles vs the more competitive teams, ..and eventually Niners playoffs, despite having the starters that we lost on offense ?

- Considering Gregory’s skill set and vast time invested, it was a unexpected loss, but the better teams eventually prepare to replace star vets as such.
When plan A unexpectedly crumbles, we gotta move on to Plan B…
When a team moves on from a James Harris,… to a TJ Watt.... that's the next plan in …

- Offense ranked No.1 in total yards but how much of that is attributed to the woeful teams such as ATL, Carolina and NFC East foes ?
Plus we never adjusted to zone heavy shell tactic of opposing teams.

- But 23 points or not, there are gonna be defensive battles that we have to win in playoffs, there are gonna be time where the defense has to pull for the offense.
Playoff games are gonna one of those times.
How many points scored did MVP Rodgers have vs Niners ?
Had we a competent run defense – Niners could have well been shut out... instead of successful play action because a WR was able to run amok on our defense.

 

[kskboys]

Really asking this, in the last 3 to 5 drafts did they have a 1st round talent DT they should've took instead if who they did. Dont remeber so honestly asking. (Mind you take the guy they did pick off the team)

If we don't make the stupid Cooper kneejerk trade, we could've had Jeffrey Simmons. Or Dexter Lawrence.

 

[quickccc]

They could've taken A'Shawn Robinson instead of Jaylon.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/draft.htm

Wheew! ... that was a close one ... and to think Chris Jones name wasn't mentioned... instead of an " A'Shawn Robinson " ... lol

 

[ESisback]

If we don't make the stupid Cooper kneejerk trade, we could've had Jeffrey Simmons. Or Dexter Lawrence.

Maybe, but I get tired of the constant “coulda shoulda woulda”. Every team makes decisions that piss people off.