CFZ Are we undervaluing the defense?

[GimmeTheBall!]

Blimey!
The D will place 5 on the line, 2 linebackers who will play edge and the deep secondary will go man on man.
The D certainly did not take a step back like the offence.

 

[Haimerej]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/draft.htm

Wheew! ... that was a close one ... and to think Chris Jones name wasn't mentioned... instead of an " A'Shawn Robinson " ... lol

They both have rings. I'd take either one over what they got.

 

[quickccc]

They both have rings. I'd take either one over what they got.

Ok, i'll let you have Robinson, .. while i'd take Chris Jones.

if there was a re-do, re-draft with Jones, he'd probably go top 5 or 6 overall in 2016 draft. ,..
i was so hoping Neville Gallimore would eventually become a similar impact player like Chris Jones.

 

[Sydla]

Maybe not, but better at DT and better at pass rush helps the secondary become better. It all translates into a BETTER defense, which I refuse to frown at. Be unhappy if you want…

"Better" as long as they continue to generate turnovers at the rate they were on last year.

If that turnover rate drops, and it's hard to continue a high turnover rate year to year, then the flaws of the defense become more exposed. They simply don't have enough playmakers up the middle, especially at DT, to compensate for a drop in turnovers. In other words, let's just say the defense only generates half the turnovers in 2022 as they did in 2021. The additions they have made on defense aren't good enough to compensate for that drop. Hence my original point, that high number of turnovers masked some of this defense's flaws - namely mediocre pass rush, suspect interior DL play. If the turnovers dropped, I don't think they've done enough to fix those areas masked in 2021.

 

[ESisback]

"Better" as long as they continue to generate turnovers at the rate they were on last year.

If that turnover rate drops, and it's hard to continue a high turnover rate year to year, then the flaws of the defense become more exposed. They simply don't have enough playmakers up the middle, especially at DT, to compensate for a drop in turnovers. In other words, let's just say the defense only generates half the turnovers in 2022 as they did in 2021. The additions they have made on defense aren't good enough to compensate for that drop. Hence my original point, that high number of turnovers masked some of this defense's flaws - namely mediocre pass rush, suspect interior DL play. If the turnovers dropped, I don't think they've done enough to fix those areas masked in 2021.

I think the D will have fewer INTs, but more sacks and a better per game average against the run—due to a BETTER DL rotation.

Just an opinion, like yours.

 

[ESisback]

I tend to focus more on the positive than the negative. It makes for a more enjoyable experience. I would likely embrace the opposite view more frequently if I were actually immersed in it for a living myself, but I’m not.

The number one one priority for a normal fan SHOULD be the overall success of the team. Unfortunately, the percentages heavily favors NOT winning the Super Bowl. In the minds of some, that “validates” their negative rants, cementing their online status as gridiron gurus. They seem to NEED that perception more than anything else.’

In the end, seven billion Chinese just don’t give a ****, so you’re better served to “enjoy the ride”.

 

[Sydla]

I think the D will have fewer INTs, but more sacks and a better per game average against the run—due to a BETTER DL rotation.

Just an opinion, like yours.

They better be improved at stopping the run and be way better at pressuring the QB if their turnover numbers go down.

Hence the point I made. If turnovers drop, the previous flaws of this D can become exposed. Have we done enough to fix them? Honestly, I am not sure. I don't think the DT rotation, that you think is better, is actually anything more than middling at this point.

 

[blueblood70]

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

while i agree the defense maybe overlooked some but like some have said might have to be better this season if the TOs don't come in bunches, so thats the x factor.

also please stop acting as if Points allowed against SF was a positive thing that made the offense look like the weak side.

UMM first off they allowed SF to score on the first 4 drives IN a row.. many of those drives were time of possessing eating drives even of they ended in a FG they took precious time from the offense., in the 2nd half how many times did they jump off sides further extending drives again taking time from the our offense?

they allowed far too many chunk runs in the first half an et the tone for the game made it physical and while 23 points seems like a Positive, how those points were results of long time eating drives much like the 2018 Rams playoff game. I mean we only lost that game by 8 was also close but the defense was partially responsible in many of the same ways in both games.. they have to take some blame.

 

[ESisback]

They better be improved at stopping the run and be way better at pressuring the QB if their turnover numbers go down.

Hence the point I made. If turnovers drop, the previous flaws of this D can become exposed. Have we done enough to fix them? Honestly, I am not sure. I don't think the DT rotation, that you think is better, is actually anything more than middling at this point.

Maybe it IS just middling, but if it’s better than 2021, and the pass rush is better than 2021, then the defense overall WILL be better, so my point remains. While we’re all just speculating, I will continue to lean positive.

 

[kskboys]

They better be improved at stopping the run and be way better at pressuring the QB if their turnover numbers go down.

Hence the point I made. If turnovers drop, the previous flaws of this D can become exposed. Have we done enough to fix them? Honestly, I am not sure. I don't think the DT rotation, that you think is better, is actually anything more than middling at this point.

All comes down to Ridgeway. We absolutely need him to be a steal, to be a Derrick Brown type, maybe a Daron Payne. Which brings us back again to the problem. We need a late round pick to turn out to be a steal to have a good DLine. Not sure it'll ever happen w/ this philosophy. And yes, every player taken was a need and we couldn't pass him up and all that jazz. However, until we fix the DT position, none of these other needs are going to matter anyway. Gawdamighty, I wish Jerry could understand this.

 

[kskboys]

while i agree the defense maybe overlooked some but like some have said might have to be better this season if the TOs don't come in bunches, so thats the x factor.

also please stop acting as if Points allowed against SF was a positive thing that made the offense look like the weak side.

UMM first off they allowed SF to score on the first 4 drives IN a row.. many of those drives were time of possessing eating drives even of they ended in a FG they took precious time from the offense., in the 2nd half how many times did they jump off sides further extending drives again taking time from the our offense?

they allowed far too many chunk runs in the first half an et the tone for the game made it physical and while 23 points seems like a Positive, how those points were results of long time eating drives much like the 2018 Rams playoff game. I mean we only lost that game by 8 was also close but the defense was partially responsible in many of the same ways in both games.. they have to take some blame.

Any D that allows 169 rushing yards did not have a good game and was a huge culprit in a loss. No way to spin that otherwise.

 

[Pass2Run]

All comes down to Ridgeway. We absolutely need him to be a steal, to be a Derrick Brown type, maybe a Daron Payne. Which brings us back again to the problem. We need a late round pick to turn out to be a steal to have a good DLine. Not sure it'll ever happen w/ this philosophy. And yes, every player taken was a need and we couldn't pass him up and all that jazz. However, until we fix the DT position, none of these other needs are going to matter anyway. Gawdamighty, I wish Jerry could understand this.

Eagles fans were upset about drafting Jordan Davis. Many of them wanted an edge rusher.

That's why I think the Eagles are a year or two out from the division. Now they can get their edge guys, because DT is sort of difficult to fill. That's why they went with Davis.

I was sort of hoping for Travis Jones. But that didn't happen.

I think our success hinges on more Odighizuwa. If Ridgeway can step up and compete with him, that'd be ideal. I also think he's part of the reason the Cowboys didn't worry too awful much about DT early on. Osa is a really good athlete. I can see him turning it on in year two.

 

[blueblood70]

Any D that allows 169 rushing yards did not have a good game and was a huge culprit in a loss. No way to spin that otherwise.

that what i said...correct??

but both games 18 and 22 both similar regardless of the improved defense to the OP CC..i was reminding him to not blame the offense and hold up on the D being our savior just yet,,we lost as a team..take away half those penalties i believe we win that game..mistakes.you won beat any playoff team committing 14 penalties..many of those payers are gone..BY design

 

[kskboys]

Eagles fans were upset about drafting Jordan Davis. Many of them wanted an edge rusher.

That's why I think the Eagles are a year or two out from the division. Now they can get their edge guys, because DT is sort of difficult to fill. That's why they went with Davis.

I was sort of hoping for Travis Jones. But that didn't happen.

I think our success hinges on more Odighizuwa. If Ridgeway can step up and compete with him, that'd be ideal. I also think he's part of the reason the Cowboys didn't worry too awful much about DT early on. Osa is a really good athlete. I can see him turning it on in year two.

Must have NT. I love Diggy, but we still don't know if he's that nasty starter we need or a good rotational type. And he's strictly a UT, and we've got those guys. Diggy may not have the tools to be "THAT GUY", remains to be seen.

 

[Flamma]

I know they lost some offensive starters which seems to be the major concern, primarily at LG, RT and WR. And that is basically an unknown at this time.

Then Gregory walked but just how important was he to the defense and overall team?

Do we spend so much time addressing what we don't like that we don't spend enough time looking for the things we do or can like?

Offense has some questions but it ranked 1st and couldn't muster over 17 in the playoff game but only gave up 23 on defense.

So, what if the offense falls off but stays in the top 10? And what if the defense becomes what really steps up? Because that is exactly what happened to this franchise in the early 90's. And what resulted was balance.

I think this defense needs a little more looking into before we start giving up the East to the Eagles and predicting another one playoff game bow out.

Dan Quinn proved himself last season because he got creative with the talent he had when he really didn't know what he had. No one predicted Diggs and Parsons and when was the last time the Cowboys had 2 players in the top 10 defensive players?

It wasn't just Parsons and his freakish athletic talent, it was Quinn exploiting that talent and turning him into a defensive weapon and overnight NFL sensation. Think he's going to regress this season? I'll take all bets against that and Diggs has proven himself to be the first ball hawk since Sanders for the Cowboys.

I really think the lack of movement on name FA's this off season has shaded things too much and caused some to really drain that half empty glass.

One thing that keeps coming back to me about this defense. Dan Quinn was the hottest HC candidate out there and linked with 5 different openings and he elected to take himself off the market and remain the DC here. We can discuss his HC resume but his DC one is exemplary and he knows a good D when he sees one and I think that is why he came back. I think he believes he has something special in the making.

Before you get all down about the offense, keep in mind it's a complete team and no Cowboys team in history ever accomplished anything without a standout defense.

I think our defense was the primary reason Dallas was 12-5 last year. Because our offense was roughly the same as they were in 2019 and in 2020 with Dak playing. The difference was the defense.

 

[kskboys]

that what i said...correct??

but both games 18 and 22 both similar regardless of the improved defense to the OP CC..i was reminding him to not blame the offense and hold up on the D being our savior just yet,,we lost as a team..take away half those penalties i believe we win that game..mistakes.you won beat any playoff team committing 14 penalties..many of those payers are
gone..BY design

Yes, I was agreeing.

Our D is still not good. Won't be until we complete it w/ hosses up front.

 

[kskboys]

I think our defense was the primary reason Dallas was 12-5 last year. Because our offense was roughly the same as they were in 2019 and in 2020 with Dak playing. The difference was the defense.

Prolly true. We now have a D w/ which we can stop bad to mediocre teams, and sometimes the better teams. Now it's time to complete the D and get those guys who are the great equalizers against playoff O's, the front 4. And just decent doesn't get it done.

 

[Pass2Run]

Must have NT. I love Diggy, but we still don't know if he's that nasty starter we need or a good rotational type. And he's strictly a UT, and we've got those guys. Diggy may not have the tools to be "THAT GUY", remains to be seen.

I think we get him up in the 5.5 - 7 sack range. We're increasing the other things an offense has to worry about. But I agree that Ridgeway needs to step up. I hope he can. I see things that tell me maybe yes, maybe no.

I see what you're saying here. I don't wholly disagree. I should rephrase and say I think our success early on depends on Osa. If Ridgeway comes on, that's all the better.

 

[Batman1980]

Prolly true. We now have a D w/ which we can stop bad to mediocre teams, and sometimes the better teams. Now it's time to complete the D and get those guys who are the great equalizers against playoff O's, the front 4. And just decent doesn't get it done.

49ers rode their lines all the way to the NFCCG with a bus driver at QB.

 

[Flamma]

Prolly true. We now have a D w/ which we can stop bad to mediocre teams, and sometimes the better teams. Now it's time to complete the D and get those guys who are the great equalizers against playoff O's, the front 4. And just decent doesn't get it done.

I know. Our D is definitely not a great D. At least not last year. But was much improved. When was the last time offenses ran into a wall when running the ball? I can't remember. We need to get back there.