The Walking Dead-Season 9, Episodes 1-8

MichaelWinicki

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Here's a guess on what happens with Negan and his new found freedom...

Essentially it becomes kind of a "Twilight Zoneish" type of experience with him going back to the Sanctuary and finding it dead both literally and figuratively. He has no one to rally around him. He finds out that maybe Rick's way was the best way (cooperation as opposed to bullying).

He then turns himself back in... Maybe even after committing some sort of "good" act like saving one of the main characters.

This creates the ripple affect of him being allowed out to participate in the Whisperer war.
 

TellerMorrow34

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Okay...lots of thoughts. On the episode, the last 3 as a whole, and the direction of the show going forward. There is going to be some stuff from the comics mentioned in here, and how it relates to how I think about certain things/characters on the show. As always spoilers are possible, so skip if you're not interested.

First off let me address this episode, as a stand alone, last night. Really good episode. I really enjoyed it. They've made the Whispers very creepy and a very real threat. I very much enjoyed the way they've done this.

I liked that they had Michionne and others treated like anyone else, when they arrived, because it's obviously playing into whatever has happened with these communities in the time skip. I'll get more into that in a bit.

Really good build, through the whole episode, to the ending. A couple of things specifically about the ending. I find it really odd that Michionne, and the new ladies, just happen to show up, in the right place, when they'd have had no idea where exactly this group of people are. It's not a huge thing, I know, but it was just really odd that this happened considering they had absolutely no idea where they were needing to look.

Negan...I'll touch on that later actually.

The death of Jesus...shocked me. I suppose in hindsight it shouldn't have. They've obviously been setting this up for the entire 3 episodes with him not really wanting to be the leader, believing Maggie was going to return, sneaking out, the whole thing. They basically have been telling us all along that he was going to die and even with all that...shocked. I did not, at all, see him being the death.

I figured there would be some sort of loss, or death, but I was really shocked that they went with Jesus. Pretty intense, pretty crazy. I'm very interested to see how this all plays out.

Now with that stand alone, of the episode, let me look into the future, briefly, as it applies to the trailer shown for the second half. I'm really looking forward to this. I'm looking forward to how this plays out, the fall out of the loss of Jesus, and specifically will this be the catalyst that brings the communities back together?

I'm interested because as a fan of the comics this is taking a very different direction to start this process. Obviously a lot of the key players in the comic are not available here to start this Whisper arc the way they did in the comic. Rick and Carl are central to the beginning of this story line there, and obviously we don't have them here. Also there are no major deaths like this at the outset. This is done, later, during the fair when the leader of the Whispers, known as Alpha, has done something terrible as a warning while Rick and Carl are in the Whisper camp waiting to be seen by Alpha. While they're there, waiting, she comes to the fair and kills several people, of varying importance, and places their heads on pikes at the border of what they consider Whisper land as a warning to Rick, and his communities, not to cross into their territory again. It's a truly shocking ending in the comic as the final shot in the comic is of King Eziekel's head on a pike.

Now could they still go with this warning during the fair thing? Possibly. But I'm guessing the show is going to go with the death of Jesus, and the realization of this new (And what, IMHO, would be the hardest threat to combat they've come across) threat is going to have to be dealt with is what is going to finally bring them back together. I'm not 100% sold on that due to some dialogue they teased in the trailer, between Michionne and Sydiq (Or however it's spelled). So I'm very interested in how they're going to play this all out.

As an interesting side note, for those who aren't aware, the big guy known as Beta, that they show Daryle fighting in the preview, is being played by Ryan Hurst. Known as Opie Winston to those SOA fans out there, like me. So I'm really happy about that.


Now to the last 3 episodes as a whole. I enjoyed them all, the second one a little slow but understandably, and I enjoy the interest they are creating in the show in a different manner, for the most part, from the comic and where I thought this would all go. BUT...you know there had to be one.

I'm becoming more frustrated with the Michionne character, and this entire direction in which the communities are divided. It's obvious that there is a very serious divide, and after last nights episode it appears its a very serious divide based off of decisions Michionne made that I feel are going to turn out to be selfish, and short sighted. It's clear that the X on her and Daryle's backs, and the situation they faced that led to that is going to factor in heavily here, but my problem is that whatever decisions Michionne made she made them with the idea that every community was on their own. They were no longer a bigger, stronger, community and she went immediately into a very selfish, and short sighted, Alexandria is my only concern.

Why does this bother me you ask, especially without knowing all the exact reasoning for it? Well I'm glad you asked. Even if you didn't, but you're still reading this rambling of a fan I appreciate it all the same. It bothers me because this direction, and this stance, they've had Michionne take has flown directly in the face of the world that Carl and Rick envisioned, fought, and died for. By going the direction they've had her go she's basically rendering their deaths, IMHO, for nothing. These are the two people she supposedly loved, and cared so much for, that she fought, and even protected for the most part, Negan in order to preserve their visions, and what they were fighting for.

And now she's just completely doing the exact opposite of what she knows they both died to build? I am not a fan of it. Especially as a comic fan and seeing how the communities, after the Savior War, are tight, well oiled, and they're working so hard together to build a better world. In the comic these communities are getting ready for the fair as a celebration of the world they've created, the larger community, and what they've come through. It's actually put on by Alexandria as such and not by the Kingdom as some last ditch effort to save the communities. I am, in no small part, no fan of this particular part of the direction. In particular Michionne. It's just...wrong. IMO.

Now to Negan. Both how this played out here, in the comic, and what I think it means going forward.

The cell was not locked by the guy in the room when Father Gabriel left. If you recall there was a guy outside the cell, who un-cuffed Negan. It's clear he didn't think to lock the door, or check it, because he believed it locked when Gabriel slammed it shut.

Now in the comic this happens in a way as well, but Gabriel is not involved. In the comic it happens when he's bathed, and fed, and they forget to lock it when they leave. He realizes it's unlocked and you get an ending in one comic where you think, well they just let this maniac escape.

However in the comic he sits right there, on this cell bed, with the door open and waits for Rick to comeback and find the door open. He uses this in the comic as a way to prove to Rick that he's changed, and that he wants to work with Rick on the world he's envisioned. It's his way of trying to build trust with Rick.

Now, obviously, we have no Rick anymore. There is no one he really needs to build that trust with in the show. So there was no reason to place this in the show here, other then they went with the cheap way to allow him to be let out. So now the show is going to have him go ahead and leave, which will set up the show teasing, or whatever, that the communities may have more then just a Whisper problem because Negan is now free. He may try and be the guy of old.

This is a different, although potentially interesting, way to go with the character. My guess is that he's going to wind up playing a vital role in saving someone (Or some group of people) from the main groups from death and he's going to be cautiously trusted to help them in the Whisper war.

Now I can tell you as a fan of the comic they did this in a way that I absolutely loved. In the comic, after he doesn't just leave, eventually Rick allows him out of the cell, and allows him to leave Alexandria. He won't let him live with them, but he doesn't keep Negan from being free. In the comic Negan eventually winds up in the Whisper group. He goes to them. Decides he wants to join them. At least that's how it's portrayed. It's not clear, at least not totally, if he really ever wanted to actually join them or if he joined up with them to wait for a reason to do what he does, for another purpose.

In the comic he winds up with them for a small amount of time. Getting close with the leader, Alpha. Alpha is a female in the comic, and I'm sure Alpha will be in the show as well. Anyway as he starts to gain her trust, to whatever degree you can gain any of these lunatics trust, Negan sees her allow the Whispers to do things he does not approve of at all. If you'll recall from an earlier season (And it's this way in the comics as well, this was straight out of the comics), Negan absolutely does not abide by rape at all. He finds it disgusting. Well in the comic Alpha allows the males of her group to have their way with the females of the group. It's up to the females to fight them off, if they really don't want to be raped, otherwise the men are allowed to do this. In the comic it's explained by her as her way of them following her, and not doing the same to her. She fought one off, or something, and that's basically what made her the leader.

Negan, of course, finds this disgusting. He can't believe someone would allow their own people to rape, or be raped. He finds it so disgusting that he kills, and cuts, Alpha's head off. Leaving us with a great final shot in that comic of him holding up her severed head and Negan saying "Wait until Rick see's what I've done for him." Or something to that effect.

Negan then returns to Alexandria, with her head, and shows Rick that he can be trusted and that he's killed the leader of their newest threat and he's ready, willing, and able to help fight them off to save Alexandria, and the communities, if they decide to attack.

Anyway, all that long winded set up to say, that I'm very interested to see how they play this out different in the show to build in Negan helping the group. I don't really see any need to have him join them, and do this whole set up, because again that was basically for Negan to prove himself to Rick. I don't see him seeing anyone left as someone he has to prove himself to. So I figure they're going to bring him in very differently in the show. But I, like Michael, am very interested in his continued involvement because to me he's the only strong leader type character left.

I never viewed Daryle as a leader. Jesus is now dead and Tara doesn't strike me as a leader. With Rick "dead" and Maggie "gone" I don't see anyone else as a great leader for the communities as an overall leader. King Ez is a great leader but I don't view him as a guy who can lead all groups, and such. And as I stated above I absolutely am not happy, at all, with the direction of Michionne as a leader.

So I'm hoping for a great comeback by Negan here and in the role of a good 'savior' of the communities.

All and all I'm very interested in seeing where they go. In particular I need the backstory on these X's and how they led Michionne to decisions that have obviously divided, and fractured, the communities to such a huge degree.
 

blindzebra

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In the preview on Talking Dead Negan sneaks into either Judith's or Rick jr's room after he escapes. It was hard to tell, because he sees a child's drawing of their family.
I am guessing it is Judith, between holding her on his lap to piss off Rick and the math help, I can see him trying to lure her to the dark side like he did Carl.
 

blindzebra

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Okay...lots of thoughts. On the episode, the last 3 as a whole, and the direction of the show going forward. There is going to be some stuff from the comics mentioned in here, and how it relates to how I think about certain things/characters on the show. As always spoilers are possible, so skip if you're not interested.

First off let me address this episode, as a stand alone, last night. Really good episode. I really enjoyed it. They've made the Whispers very creepy and a very real threat. I very much enjoyed the way they've done this.

I liked that they had Michionne and others treated like anyone else, when they arrived, because it's obviously playing into whatever has happened with these communities in the time skip. I'll get more into that in a bit.

Really good build, through the whole episode, to the ending. A couple of things specifically about the ending. I find it really odd that Michionne, and the new ladies, just happen to show up, in the right place, when they'd have had no idea where exactly this group of people are. It's not a huge thing, I know, but it was just really odd that this happened considering they had absolutely no idea where they were needing to look.

Negan...I'll touch on that later actually.

The death of Jesus...shocked me. I suppose in hindsight it shouldn't have. They've obviously been setting this up for the entire 3 episodes with him not really wanting to be the leader, believing Maggie was going to return, sneaking out, the whole thing. They basically have been telling us all along that he was going to die and even with all that...shocked. I did not, at all, see him being the death.

I figured there would be some sort of loss, or death, but I was really shocked that they went with Jesus. Pretty intense, pretty crazy. I'm very interested to see how this all plays out.

Now with that stand alone, of the episode, let me look into the future, briefly, as it applies to the trailer shown for the second half. I'm really looking forward to this. I'm looking forward to how this plays out, the fall out of the loss of Jesus, and specifically will this be the catalyst that brings the communities back together?

I'm interested because as a fan of the comics this is taking a very different direction to start this process. Obviously a lot of the key players in the comic are not available here to start this Whisper arc the way they did in the comic. Rick and Carl are central to the beginning of this story line there, and obviously we don't have them here. Also there are no major deaths like this at the outset. This is done, later, during the fair when the leader of the Whispers, known as Alpha, has done something terrible as a warning while Rick and Carl are in the Whisper camp waiting to be seen by Alpha. While they're there, waiting, she comes to the fair and kills several people, of varying importance, and places their heads on pikes at the border of what they consider Whisper land as a warning to Rick, and his communities, not to cross into their territory again. It's a truly shocking ending in the comic as the final shot in the comic is of King Eziekel's head on a pike.

Now could they still go with this warning during the fair thing? Possibly. But I'm guessing the show is going to go with the death of Jesus, and the realization of this new (And what, IMHO, would be the hardest threat to combat they've come across) threat is going to have to be dealt with is what is going to finally bring them back together. I'm not 100% sold on that due to some dialogue they teased in the trailer, between Michionne and Sydiq (Or however it's spelled). So I'm very interested in how they're going to play this all out.

As an interesting side note, for those who aren't aware, the big guy known as Beta, that they show Daryle fighting in the preview, is being played by Ryan Hurst. Known as Opie Winston to those SOA fans out there, like me. So I'm really happy about that.


Now to the last 3 episodes as a whole. I enjoyed them all, the second one a little slow but understandably, and I enjoy the interest they are creating in the show in a different manner, for the most part, from the comic and where I thought this would all go. BUT...you know there had to be one.

I'm becoming more frustrated with the Michionne character, and this entire direction in which the communities are divided. It's obvious that there is a very serious divide, and after last nights episode it appears its a very serious divide based off of decisions Michionne made that I feel are going to turn out to be selfish, and short sighted. It's clear that the X on her and Daryle's backs, and the situation they faced that led to that is going to factor in heavily here, but my problem is that whatever decisions Michionne made she made them with the idea that every community was on their own. They were no longer a bigger, stronger, community and she went immediately into a very selfish, and short sighted, Alexandria is my only concern.

Why does this bother me you ask, especially without knowing all the exact reasoning for it? Well I'm glad you asked. Even if you didn't, but you're still reading this rambling of a fan I appreciate it all the same. It bothers me because this direction, and this stance, they've had Michionne take has flown directly in the face of the world that Carl and Rick envisioned, fought, and died for. By going the direction they've had her go she's basically rendering their deaths, IMHO, for nothing. These are the two people she supposedly loved, and cared so much for, that she fought, and even protected for the most part, Negan in order to preserve their visions, and what they were fighting for.

And now she's just completely doing the exact opposite of what she knows they both died to build? I am not a fan of it. Especially as a comic fan and seeing how the communities, after the Savior War, are tight, well oiled, and they're working so hard together to build a better world. In the comic these communities are getting ready for the fair as a celebration of the world they've created, the larger community, and what they've come through. It's actually put on by Alexandria as such and not by the Kingdom as some last ditch effort to save the communities. I am, in no small part, no fan of this particular part of the direction. In particular Michionne. It's just...wrong. IMO.

Now to Negan. Both how this played out here, in the comic, and what I think it means going forward.

The cell was not locked by the guy in the room when Father Gabriel left. If you recall there was a guy outside the cell, who un-cuffed Negan. It's clear he didn't think to lock the door, or check it, because he believed it locked when Gabriel slammed it shut.

Now in the comic this happens in a way as well, but Gabriel is not involved. In the comic it happens when he's bathed, and fed, and they forget to lock it when they leave. He realizes it's unlocked and you get an ending in one comic where you think, well they just let this maniac escape.

However in the comic he sits right there, on this cell bed, with the door open and waits for Rick to comeback and find the door open. He uses this in the comic as a way to prove to Rick that he's changed, and that he wants to work with Rick on the world he's envisioned. It's his way of trying to build trust with Rick.

Now, obviously, we have no Rick anymore. There is no one he really needs to build that trust with in the show. So there was no reason to place this in the show here, other then they went with the cheap way to allow him to be let out. So now the show is going to have him go ahead and leave, which will set up the show teasing, or whatever, that the communities may have more then just a Whisper problem because Negan is now free. He may try and be the guy of old.

This is a different, although potentially interesting, way to go with the character. My guess is that he's going to wind up playing a vital role in saving someone (Or some group of people) from the main groups from death and he's going to be cautiously trusted to help them in the Whisper war.

Now I can tell you as a fan of the comic they did this in a way that I absolutely loved. In the comic, after he doesn't just leave, eventually Rick allows him out of the cell, and allows him to leave Alexandria. He won't let him live with them, but he doesn't keep Negan from being free. In the comic Negan eventually winds up in the Whisper group. He goes to them. Decides he wants to join them. At least that's how it's portrayed. It's not clear, at least not totally, if he really ever wanted to actually join them or if he joined up with them to wait for a reason to do what he does, for another purpose.

In the comic he winds up with them for a small amount of time. Getting close with the leader, Alpha. Alpha is a female in the comic, and I'm sure Alpha will be in the show as well. Anyway as he starts to gain her trust, to whatever degree you can gain any of these lunatics trust, Negan sees her allow the Whispers to do things he does not approve of at all. If you'll recall from an earlier season (And it's this way in the comics as well, this was straight out of the comics), Negan absolutely does not abide by rape at all. He finds it disgusting. Well in the comic Alpha allows the males of her group to have their way with the females of the group. It's up to the females to fight them off, if they really don't want to be raped, otherwise the men are allowed to do this. In the comic it's explained by her as her way of them following her, and not doing the same to her. She fought one off, or something, and that's basically what made her the leader.

Negan, of course, finds this disgusting. He can't believe someone would allow their own people to rape, or be raped. He finds it so disgusting that he kills, and cuts, Alpha's head off. Leaving us with a great final shot in that comic of him holding up her severed head and Negan saying "Wait until Rick see's what I've done for him." Or something to that effect.

Negan then returns to Alexandria, with her head, and shows Rick that he can be trusted and that he's killed the leader of their newest threat and he's ready, willing, and able to help fight them off to save Alexandria, and the communities, if they decide to attack.

Anyway, all that long winded set up to say, that I'm very interested to see how they play this out different in the show to build in Negan helping the group. I don't really see any need to have him join them, and do this whole set up, because again that was basically for Negan to prove himself to Rick. I don't see him seeing anyone left as someone he has to prove himself to. So I figure they're going to bring him in very differently in the show. But I, like Michael, am very interested in his continued involvement because to me he's the only strong leader type character left.

I never viewed Daryle as a leader. Jesus is now dead and Tara doesn't strike me as a leader. With Rick "dead" and Maggie "gone" I don't see anyone else as a great leader for the communities as an overall leader. King Ez is a great leader but I don't view him as a guy who can lead all groups, and such. And as I stated above I absolutely am not happy, at all, with the direction of Michionne as a leader.

So I'm hoping for a great comeback by Negan here and in the role of a good 'savior' of the communities.

All and all I'm very interested in seeing where they go. In particular I need the backstory on these X's and how they led Michionne to decisions that have obviously divided, and fractured, the communities to such a huge degree.
Michionne had a baby since Rick and Carl's death. A baby boy like the one she lost and sent her into the biteless, armless, boyfriend and his brother, walker protector phase where she entered the story. The need to protect her children wins out. Not really that shocking. She even says it to Carol when Carol said we both lost children and kept going.
 

TellerMorrow34

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Michionne had a baby since Rick and Carl's death. A baby boy like the one she lost and sent her into the biteless, armless, boyfriend and his brother, walker protector phase where she entered the story. The need to protect her children wins out. Not really that shocking. She even says it to Carol when Carol said we both lost children and kept going.

I forgot about the kid that was another question I also had. Seeing that she's named him RJ (Which I take to be Rick Jr.) i've been curious if this is supposed to be Rick's kid, or did she wind up with a kid from some one else. Possibly raped (She was in the comic, by the Gov. although she doesn't have a kid from it) and could that be part of that whole X business? Maybe she had a fling with someone else who died, or did them wrong, or whatever and that's how.

I know they had the scene, before Rick's death, where he told her he wanted to have a kid with her. But, and this is just my opinion here, but that kid doesn't look old enough to be 5 or 6 years old. The conversation with Carol seems more like her talking about the kid Michionne lost in the very beginning, and probably even a reference to Carl, more then anything else. Which, again, with reference to Carl you know what he wanted, you know what he died fighting for, you know what his dad died fighting for. Would seem very odd that you'd just forget that entirely just to go on your own way.

Either way that, for me, simply doesn't cut it. Her friends, including Maggie, have children as well. Maggie was obviously still around during whatever conflict caused Michionne to make these decisions. She made that clear when she said she didn't know what Maggie would do if she showed up at Hilltop. So obviously there was an extremely hard falling out by those two.

Children she's watched after, cared for, provided for. So if that's the reasoning they go with, again maybe I'd be in the minority here but that's lazy and simply won't cut it as the reasoning to basically tear apart the whole thing that Carl and Rick died for.

But you definitely could be right. It could be nothing more than the kids and I'll just be unhappy with the explanation if that's what it comes down to.
 

TellerMorrow34

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In the preview on Talking Dead Negan sneaks into either Judith's or Rick jr's room after he escapes. It was hard to tell, because he sees a child's drawing of their family.
I am guessing it is Judith, between holding her on his lap to piss off Rick and the math help, I can see him trying to lure her to the dark side like he did Carl.

It's possible. Definitely could go with him simply going back to being a bad guy who bullies and takes.

I don't believe that's going to be the direction of the story though. I really feel like they're going to go the direction of him working hard, and possibly for quite a while, to build himself into a trusted member and will wind up as a good guy in the story. Complete turn around style.

Which, really, it's not even a complete turn around as Negan has never been a total villain, in the first place. When you pay attention to what he does, and why, and his reasoning (Especially if they ever give you his actual full back story like the comics have done) for doing things the way he did then you understand he's not really a villain, or an evil person, he's just a survivor who chose a different path for survival of himself, but more importantly those around him.
 

blindzebra

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I forgot about the kid that was another question I also had. Seeing that she's named him RJ (Which I take to be Rick Jr.) i've been curious if this is supposed to be Rick's kid, or did she wind up with a kid from some one else. Possibly raped (She was in the comic, by the Gov. although she doesn't have a kid from it) and could that be part of that whole X business? Maybe she had a fling with someone else who died, or did them wrong, or whatever and that's how.

I know they had the scene, before Rick's death, where he told her he wanted to have a kid with her. But, and this is just my opinion here, but that kid doesn't look old enough to be 5 or 6 years old. The conversation with Carol seems more like her talking about the kid Michionne lost in the very beginning, and probably even a reference to Carl, more then anything else. Which, again, with reference to Carl you know what he wanted, you know what he died fighting for, you know what his dad died fighting for. Would seem very odd that you'd just forget that entirely just to go on your own way.

Either way that, for me, simply doesn't cut it. Her friends, including Maggie, have children as well. Maggie was obviously still around during whatever conflict caused Michionne to make these decisions. She made that clear when she said she didn't know what Maggie would do if she showed up at Hilltop. So obviously there was an extremely hard falling out by those two.

Children she's watched after, cared for, provided for. So if that's the reasoning they go with, again maybe I'd be in the minority here but that's lazy and simply won't cut it as the reasoning to basically tear apart the whole thing that Carl and Rick died for.

But you definitely could be right. It could be nothing more than the kids and I'll just be unhappy with the explanation if that's what it comes down to.

I don't think it was just kids.

Prior to Rick's death she was pushing Maggie to have a unified front, with rules that stood for all three communities, Maggie was not having it. The clash over Negan also created a wedge. Then her love died trying to unify the communities. Then she finds out she is pregnant and has Rick's baby. She is now a single mother with two kids, living with the guilt of losing her first son. We know that Maggie has left Hilltop to work with another group, so that may have increased the wedge between them. Then we have no idea what has added to it during the six years that we don't know about. Maggie was turning Governor before Rick died, there was definitely a darkness to Maggie which may have continued during the six years. We know, based on Henry, that Hilltop has set punishments now. We know Alexandria does things by committee, so the rift about uniform rules clearly lived on during the six year jump. Michionne feels Maggie has been selfish, so her being selfish in return seems realistic.
 

Stash

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Overall, I liked this episode a lot, and it set up a scary, new enemy, something the show badly needed.

I loved, loved, loved the set up and the faceoff in the mist-shrouded graveyard. That added an extra layer of suspense and foreboding. I liked the faceoff with the walkers towards the end and I really liked Jesus showing what he could do.

What I hate, hate, hated, was the setup for Jesus' death. It would be one thing if the Whisperer outdueld him, but choosing shock value over sense was a mistake. Having the guy - wearing a dead skin mask on top of it - "dodging" a sword strike from behind that he never sees coming is ridiculous.
 

TellerMorrow34

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I don't think it was just kids.

Prior to Rick's death she was pushing Maggie to have a unified front, with rules that stood for all three communities, Maggie was not having it. The clash over Negan also created a wedge. Then her love died trying to unify the communities. Then she finds out she is pregnant and has Rick's baby. She is now a single mother with two kids, living with the guilt of losing her first son. We know that Maggie has left Hilltop to work with another group, so that may have increased the wedge between them. Then we have no idea what has added to it during the six years that we don't know about. Maggie was turning Governor before Rick died, there was definitely a darkness to Maggie which may have continued during the six years. We know, based on Henry, that Hilltop has set punishments now. We know Alexandria does things by committee, so the rift about uniform rules clearly lived on during the six year jump. Michionne feels Maggie has been selfish, so her being selfish in return seems realistic.

Emmmm...maybe. But I don't think so. Here is why.

1) Her and Maggie were passed the Negan thing. There was no wedge any longer because Michionne allowed Maggie to go in there and kill Negan, if she'd chosen to. Maggie chose not to, seeing how broken Negan was. So that wedge was gone.

2) There can be no rift, or wedge, over Maggie working with, and leaving to, the other community because Michionne was not aware of this. That was addressed when Sidiq told her that Maggie had left the Hilltop and it had happened quite some time ago. Michionne wasn't even aware that Maggie was gone, as it had been so long since she'd been to Hilltop or seen Maggie.

So that leaves me to believe that this rift, and problem, is something that came up during the time skip and is directly due to whatever decisions Michionne has made that has clearly divided the communities as she's shut Alexandria off from them, and has them all fending for themselves in stead. That's why it's interesting to me.

Maggie's dark side basically died when 1) the Oceanside ladies told her they were killing those Saviors because her actions with Gregory proved to them that it was okay and 2) and more importantly when the object of her darkness and hatred was nothing more than a destroyed mess of the person she had hated.


This whole thing is due to something that happened during this 6 year time skip and all the decisions made following whatever that something was.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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Overall, I liked this episode a lot, and it set up a scary, new enemy, something the show badly needed.

I loved, loved, loved the set up and the faceoff in the mist-shrouded graveyard. That added an extra layer of suspense and foreboding. I liked the faceoff with the walkers towards the end and I really liked Jesus showing what he could do.

What I hate, hate, hated, was the setup for Jesus' death. It would be one thing if the Whisperer outdueld him, but choosing shock value over sense was a mistake. Having the guy - wearing a dead skin mask on top of it - "dodging" a sword strike from behind that he never sees coming is ridiculous.

The Jesus death scene. I get why they did it that way. It was to be shocking.

Only problem is show never really went into superhero type beating and killing. So it was out of character.

I’ll give them a pass.

I think there should have been more mystery about “talking walkers/walker meetings in the field” before reveal. It was basically Eugene and his theory babble and then the reveal.
 

Stash

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The Jesus death scene. I get why they did it that way. It was to be shocking.

Only problem is show never really went into superhero type beating and killing. So it was out of character.

I’ll give them a pass.

I think there should have been more mystery about “talking walkers/walker meetings in the field” before reveal. It was basically Eugene and his theory babble and then the reveal.

I agree about the reveal. I thought they could have gotten some mileage out of the mystery. Maybe they figured the comics people would have just ruined it anyway?
 

LittleBoyBlue

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I agree about the reveal. I thought they could have gotten some mileage out of the mystery. Maybe they figured the comics people would have just ruined it anyway?


Yeah but still lol

We knew about Negan and his actual reveal took a while.


Wait until Negan finds his bat .... heh heh

(Oh and for the record I am not on board with Negan redemption/good guy scenario)

Stay Negan and let Maggie kill him out on the road or something
 

Stash

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Yeah but still lol

We knew about Negan and his actual reveal took a while.


Wait until Negan finds his bat .... heh heh

(Oh and for the record I am not on board with Negan redemption/good guy scenario)

Stay Negan and let Maggie kill him out on the road or something

I love Jeffery Dean Morgan as an actor, so I'm in no rush to kill him off
 

LittleBoyBlue

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Creed 2

Man this movie was really about fathers and sons.... not about boxing.
Apollo and Adonis
Ivan and Viktor
Rocky and Robert
And even Duke and his son

My rating : 7 out of 10
Masterfully tying together 6 Rocky movies and one other Creed movie

My rating for the Rocky franchise: 6 out of 10
You never get that Rocky adrenaline pump in either creed movie. That’s no ones fault though.
Apollo and Adonis were great fighters. They were assassins. No need for Rocky heroics.

“You fight great, but I’m a great fighter”
 

MichaelWinicki

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Creed 2

Man this movie was really about fathers and sons.... not about boxing.
Apollo and Adonis
Ivan and Viktor
Rocky and Robert
And even Duke and his son

My rating : 7 out of 10
Masterfully tying together 6 Rocky movies and one other Creed movie

My rating for the Rocky franchise: 6 out of 10
You never get that Rocky adrenaline pump in either creed movie. That’s no ones fault though.
Apollo and Adonis were great fighters. They were assassins. No need for Rocky heroics.

“You fight great, but I’m a great fighter”


Wrong thread.
 
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