Ed Werner good scoop on Hill

Hennessy_King · Apr 27, 2019

AsthmaField said:
As much as Frederick solidified the OL and brought it all together... Hill could do for the DL.

With that physical ability and effort, I don’t blame the team at all.

That’s why I was glad they took him.

What effort? The guy was knocked for taking practice and plays off by the coaching staff hence why he didnt start.

sbark · Apr 27, 2019

jnday said:
Give him time. He will be smoking dope before his first week as a Cowboy.

Should keep him the strip clubs for 1st month then, protect him from the bad weed influence
....make it rain

Hennessy_King · Apr 27, 2019

AsthmaField said:
I get that but like I said elsewhere: there’s no way a safety can impact the team like an explosive 3T can in this defense. That position makes this defense go and if Hill is a hit, it’ll transform everything.

Thornhill wasn’t going to do that.

So your saying a good safety that would be on the field for 90% of the snaps would impact the game less than a good rookie DT that might see 50% of the snaps?

AsthmaField · Apr 27, 2019

Bobhaze said:
I don’t doubt Hill’s ability. But his problems with coaching had most teams dropping him to the 3rd or 4th round. Why oh why does this organization...this owner...always seem to love the high risk pick? It’s like an addiction to the “high” of going against conventional wisdom. It’s stupid.

Look, I’m a Cowboys fan, so I want Hill to succeed. I said the same thing about Bruce Carter, Gavin Escobar, Randy Gregory, and Jaylon Smith. Jaylon has worked out so we can always take comfort in Jerry’s hitting on a second rounder once in a while.

I understand what your saying but they spent a ton of time talking to Hill’s old coaches and his new coaches as well as a large amount of time with the player himself - not to mention hours of watching his tape and they felt comfortable with him.

I don’t think the team feels like it is high risk.

And he had zero problems with Scott Frost or his staff. The problem was with the new staff and even then I heard it was more of a scheme issue.

I don’t think the risk is big at all.

JMO.

CWR · Apr 27, 2019

AsthmaField said:
I actually don’t think it is that big of a risk. Scott Frost and his staff loved Hill and he apparently had an issue with the new system the second staff brought in, probably because it made him take on blocks rather than use his burst to shoot gaps. That isn’t that terrible in the first place. Secondly, every defensive lineman who ever played in Marinelli’s system loves it like no other. It suits Hill’s strengths perfectly... he will have no problem with what he’s asked to do.

He plays two years as a true freshman and true sophomore with zero problems, and then his final year he bucks the defensive system a little and doesn’t get to start. I don’t think that is what I would categorize as a problem guy.

Also, I’ve heard people saying he was benched his final year but that is way off... he just didn’t start the game and wasn’t listed as a starter... he played a lot in every game.

Finally, if you are going to take a risk (albeit a small one here IMO)... talent like Hill has is what you take a chance on. His first step is incredibly explosive. He’s into the OL before they can really even get out of their stance. His get off is rare. And speaking for myself, when I look for traits I want out of a DL, first step explosion and quick get off is the first thing I look for... particularly in a 3T. That can’t be coached and isn’t something you find very often.

Someone who weighs 308 and has explosiveness like that? Someone who plays like his hair is on fire every snap? Well, that is someone I’d take a chance on. Especially when his transgression is so small.

Damn good write up, you sold me.

AsthmaField · Apr 27, 2019

Hennessy_King said:
What effort? The guy was knocked for taking practice and plays off by the coaching staff hence why he didnt start.

This is from a scouting report on him:

Effort - One of the most urgent football players I have ever seen. Plays every snap like his life depends on it. Always pursues the football at a full sprint. Gets knocked down and immediately pops up looking for the football. More technique is needed to take advantage of his effort and turn it into consistent playmaking.

The guy plays every play like it is his last. You see that in every snap he takes and you read it in every report that is out on him.

Marinelli makes specific mention of that several times. It was one of the biggest things they loved about him.

He is not lazy.

tyke1doe · Apr 27, 2019

Bigdog said:
I wonder what will happen if Garett and the rest of his coaching staff contracts are not renewed after the season. This is a cut throat business and coaches come a go.

I was thinking the same thing. What if Marinelli leaves?

Gaede · Apr 27, 2019

AsthmaField said:
I actually don’t think it is that big of a risk. Scott Frost and his staff loved Hill and he apparently had an issue with the new system the second staff brought in, probably because it made him take on blocks rather than use his burst to shoot gaps. That isn’t that terrible in the first place. Secondly, every defensive lineman who ever played in Marinelli’s system loves it like no other. It suits Hill’s strengths perfectly... he will have no problem with what he’s asked to do.

He plays two years as a true freshman and true sophomore with zero problems, and then his final year he bucks the defensive system a little and doesn’t get to start. I don’t think that is what I would categorize as a problem guy.

Also, I’ve heard people saying he was benched his final year but that is way off... he just didn’t start the game and wasn’t listed as a starter... he played a lot in every game.

Finally, if you are going to take a risk (albeit a small one here IMO)... talent like Hill has is what you take a chance on. His first step is incredibly explosive. He’s into the OL before they can really even get out of their stance. His get off is rare. And speaking for myself, when I look for traits I want out of a DL, first step explosion and quick get off is the first thing I look for... particularly in a 3T. That can’t be coached and isn’t something you find very often.

Someone who weighs 308 and has explosiveness like that? Someone who plays like his hair is on fire every snap? Well, that is someone I’d take a chance on. Especially when his transgression is so small.

Good post. Actually turned me around on this pick.

CWR · Apr 27, 2019

Hennessy_King said:
What effort? The guy was knocked for taking practice and plays off by the coaching staff hence why he didnt start.

Pretty much every scouting report speaks to his non stop motor.

Hennessy_King · Apr 27, 2019

AsthmaField said:
This is from a scouting report on him:

Effort - One of the most urgent football players I have ever seen. Plays every snap like his life depends on it. Always pursues the football at a full sprint. Gets knocked down and immediately pops up looking for the football. More technique is needed to take advantage of his effort and turn it into consistent playmaking.

The guy plays every play like it is his last. You see that in every snap he takes and you read it in every report that is out on him.

Marinelli makes specific mention of that several times. It was one of the biggest things they loved about him.

He is not lazy.

His new staff literally said he didnt start because other players practiced harder than him and gave more effort.

Hennessy_King · Apr 27, 2019

CowboysWillRise said:
Pretty much every scouting report speaks to his non stop motor.

If hes so good why didnt he start for UCF? And why he only get 3 sacks

CyberB0b · Apr 27, 2019

AsthmaField said:
I understand what your saying but they spent a ton of time talking to Hill’s old coaches and his new coaches as well as a large amount of time with the player himself - not to mention hours of watching his tape and they felt comfortable with him.

I don’t think the team feels like it is high risk.

And he had zero problems with Scott Frost or his staff. The problem was with the new staff and even then I heard it was more of a scheme issue.

I don’t think the risk is big at all.

JMO.

They've done similar things with other guys like Ro McClain, Greg Hardy, Randy Gregory, David Irving, etc. I'll believe it when I see it. With that said, I don't mind the pick.

AsthmaField · Apr 27, 2019

Hennessy_King said:
So your saying a good safety that would be on the field for 90% of the snaps would impact the game less than a good rookie DT that might see 50% of the snaps?

Yes, that’s what I’m saying, although it isn’t a “good” safety and a “rookie” DT... it is a rookie safety and a rookie DT.

I also doubt that Thornhill would have taken 90% of the snaps but that is another argument altogether.

A good 3T makes this defense go.

Hennessy_King · Apr 27, 2019

AsthmaField said:
Yes, that’s what I’m saying, although it isn’t a “good” safety and a “rookie” DT... it is a rookie safety and a rookie DT.

I also doubt that Thornhill would have taken 90% of the snaps but that is another argument altogether.

A good 3T makes this defense go.

Do you know hes gonna be good? Yes if hes the next Warren sapp this defense will be great. But marinelli didn't draft Warren sapp

AsthmaField · Apr 27, 2019

CyberB0b said:
They've done similar things with other guys like Ro McClain, Greg Hardy, Randy Gregory, David Irving, etc. I'll believe it when I see it. With that said, I don't mind the pick.

There is no comparison (IMO) between Hill and those guys. Night and day and completely unfair to group him with them.

I do understand what you’re saying and yes, this team has taken big chances before... I just don’t consider this to be one of them.

Maxmadden · Apr 27, 2019

Hennessy_King said:
It's not even close frederick pick. I believe fredbeard was the best center that draft and we got lucky. Fredbeard was a consensus first round top of the 2nd safe pick. No injury or character concerns

I think they wanted Fredbeard all along but they thought he would be available with the 2nd pick (47).
There we're something like 10 OL drafted in the first round that year and they desperately needed an OL that year.
So they traded down and took Fred at the top of the first. He was graded as a 1st - 2nd round grade but after all the OL went in the first round they had to do what they did, go get their guy.

In a normal draft they could have taken a premier defensive talent and gotten Fred with a 2, but because we were in a position of need we had to do what we did.

Every year since then they have went into the draft with no glaring holes because they fill them with cheap yearly FA contracts, which allows them to make most of their picks on BPA.

Alexander · Apr 27, 2019

Wood said:
No one will out hustle him getting to ball. Has amazing first step.

Finally got Marinelli's "quick twitch" guy.

superonyx · Apr 27, 2019

Hennessy_King said:
His new staff literally said he didnt start because other players practiced harder than him and gave more effort.

Either these quotes from his coaches and scouting reports are all a part of a smear campaign against Hill or he shown to be immature, argumentative, mouthy, and unmotivated. Maybe it’s scheme. But that doesn’t make him pouting and acting like a man baby ok.

Also..look at his stats the first 2 years when he was happy with the system. His production was not impressive at all.

Most write ups say he wasn’t even on teams radars until he came to the combine and had good workouts.
So he is a workout warrior that hasn’t produced and has attitude, effort issues.

It’s amazing how many fans will create their own narrative they use to sell themselves on personnel moves,

boysfaninMI · Apr 27, 2019

Wood said:
He spoke to 4 NFL DC and this is what they had to say:

1. DL coach liked him alot.
2. Thought he can become Sheldon Richardson type player.
3. Very immature player with major coachability issues
4. Felt he would get drafted round 4-5 because of possibly attitude issues.

He didn't stop there. He had Hill DC on and this is what he basically said.

No one will out hustle him getting to ball. Has amazing first step. Team switched coaching staff and it took Hill time to buy into new system. Reason he only started 1 game last year is because they reward player who practice hard with starting games (this means Hill wasn't really doing what they wanted in practice so he didn't start).Toward end of year he really started to get it and played better.

Marinelli & Hill spoke on phone for weeks and it became father/son type relationship.

My take:
Hill has alot of upside. This is boom or bust type pick. Dallas probably drafted him too soon but felt relationship between Marinelli & Hill mitigated some of those coachability issues. Dallas had a massive need for young DT so we can't fault them for pick. What I think they should have done was trade back up for that S.

BIG time boom or bust pick, but honestly...most picks in the first two rounds are like that.
As for Hill and Rod becoming BFF's: just ridiculous in every way. Shouldn't have anything to DO with taking the kid or not. Richard? Yeah, he'd be more in touch and in tune with a kid like Hill IMO. I'm about done with Grandpa Rod. Great coach, but just step aside Rod. It's time man.

visionary · Apr 27, 2019

dwreck27 said:
This is a huge boom or huge bust of a pick....

If this kid treats football like Gregory or Irving we can count this 2019 draft as a compete wash

Stupid teams do stupid things

Ed Werner good scoop on Hill

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Village Idiot

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What's it going to be then, eh?

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