Ed Werner good scoop on Hill

[Hennessy_King]

Either these quotes from his coaches and scouting reports are all a part of a smear campaign against Hill or he shown to be immature, argumentative, mouthy, and unmotivated. Maybe it’s scheme. But that doesn’t make him pouting and acting like a man baby ok.

Also..look at his stats the first 2 years when he was happy with the system. His production was not impressive at all.

Most write ups say he wasn’t even on teams radars until he came to the combine and had good workouts.
So he is a workout warrior that hasn’t produced and has attitude, effort issues.


It’s amazing how many fans will create their own narrative they use to sell themselves on personnel moves,

That's what I'm saying if his tape and production were all world I can see the upside at least.

 

[AsthmaField]

Do you know hes gonna be good? Yes if hes the next Warren sapp this defense will be great. But marinelli didn't draft Warren sapp

As much as I know Thornhill will be good.

I had questions about him as well. He wasn’t a perfect prospect. Neither is Hill, I know.

I’m not looking to argue with you and I’ve enjoyed talking to you in the past, so don’t think I’m being difficult... I just really like Hills abilities.

When you see a 21 year old guy who has that kind of power and explosion and plays the game that hard, you typically see success.

He’s nothing like Taco, who I didn’t like. Taco is long and plodding in his movements. Hill is compact and explosive as hell. More my type of player and what this defense calls for IMO.

 

[Alexander]

If hes so good why didnt he start for UCF? And why he only get 3 sacks

Look, it is complicated, okay?

 

[visionary]

I don't know much about him as a player, but we needed a DT and got one. No complaints there.

I do, however, question this team's ability to handle a player with some motivational/character issues. They haven't had a good track record, when you go back to Pac Man Jones, Tank Johnson, Jay Ratliff, TO, Randy Gregory, David Irving, Greg Hardy, Ro McClain, etc. The list is a mile long.

Dremont Jones was on the board
That is the player you take of you want a starting DT

Hill is a prayer

 

[tyke1doe]

This is from a scouting report on him:

Effort - One of the most urgent football players I have ever seen. Plays every snap like his life depends on it. Always pursues the football at a full sprint. Gets knocked down and immediately pops up looking for the football. More technique is needed to take advantage of his effort and turn it into consistent playmaking.

The guy plays every play like it is his last. You see that in every snap he takes and you read it in every report that is out on him.

Marinelli makes specific mention of that several times. It was one of the biggest things they loved about him.

He is not lazy.

My son is like that, so I'm getting a better understanding of players like him.
He plays college football now. His coaches admit he's the best corner on the team. He went to one of the top high football schools in the nation and learned how to play the position. The other guys on the team don't know as much as he does because they come from lesser programs. His DB coach has even told me this. They love his toughness on the field, his brashness and his playmaking ability. But they don't start him because he is (was last year) a redshirt freshman, and they want to play older players.

But it frustrates my son that he has to wait his turn when he knows he's better than the other guys. That saps his energy and crushes his spirit. It makes him have little regard and respect for his coaches. Even though I tell him to remain patience, sometimes players, when they know they're good and when they're told by their coaches they're good, but are treated like they're not, they get discouraged.

Real players want to play. And when they don't or can't, they lose respect for their coaches.

Maybe this is the case with Hill. We'll see.

 

[Hennessy_King]

As much as I know Thornhill will be good.

I had questions about him as well. He wasn’t a perfect prospect. Neither is Hill, I know.

I’m not looking to argue with you and I’ve enjoyed talking to you in the past, so don’t think I’m being difficult... I just really like Hills abilities.

When you see a 21 year old guy who has that kind of power and explosion and plays the game that hard, you typically see success.

He’s nothing like Taco, who I didn’t like. Taco is long and plodding in his movements. Hill is compact and explosive as hell. More my type of player and what this defense calls for IMO.

Nah it's all love. I just really think we could have snagged thornhill and waited for this kid at 90. I think they messed up this draft. Plus it was really cheap to move up if they wanted him that bad. I would rather have taken
58 Thornhill
78 Hill/saunders
128 Isaiah Johnson
165 Joe Jackson

 

[AsthmaField]

Either these quotes from his coaches and scouting reports are all a part of a smear campaign against Hill or he shown to be immature, argumentative, mouthy, and unmotivated. Maybe it’s scheme. But that doesn’t make him pouting and acting like a man baby ok.

Also..look at his stats the first 2 years when he was happy with the system. His production was not impressive at all.

Most write ups say he wasn’t even on teams radars until he came to the combine and had good workouts.
So he is a workout warrior that hasn’t produced and has attitude, effort issues.


It’s amazing how many fans will create their own narrative they use to sell themselves on personnel moves,

No, that doesn’t make being a baby okay... but it doesn’t make it being a pothead who can’t quit or a domestic violence guy waiting to happen.

I don’t condone bickering with coaches... I just think we’re killing a fly with a sledgehammer here. We’re killing a really talented 21 year old for pouting.

Most people who know say he didn’t have Aaron Donald production because his technique is super raw and he had a lot to learn. What he has is explosion like the Geno Atkins / Ed Oliver’s of the world and that is what Marinelli needs at his 3T. That explosion is rare in a 308 pound kid and he’s a smart guy, he can learn the technique.

As for myself, I’m not convincing myself of anything... I just love DT’s that have that kind of explosion and effort. I’ve been wanting a guy like that since before Donald came out.

I did everything but write a letter to the Cowboys telling them to draft Donald, lol.

 

[Alexander]

Real players want to play. And when they don't or can't, they lose respect for their coaches.

Maybe this is the case with Hill. We'll see.

Good story.

But it does not jell with this case. It was not a case for playing older players like you stated in the case with your son.

This was what was supposed to be a cornerstone player failing to win over a new coaching staff.

 

[Alexander]

thornhill

 

[Hennessy_King]

My son is like that, so I'm getting a better understanding of players like him.
He plays college football now. His coaches admit he's the best corner on the team. He went to one of the top football schools in the nation and learned how to play the position. The other guys on the team don't know as much as he does because they come from lesser programs. He DB coach has even told me this. They love his toughness on the field, his brashness and his playmaking ability. But they don't start him because he is (was last year) a redshirt freshman, and they want to play older players.

But it frustrates my son that he has to weight his turn when he knows he's better than the other guys. That saps his energy and crushes his spirit. It make him have little regard for his coaches. Even though I tell him to remain patience, sometimes players, when they know they're good and when they're told by their coaches they're good, but are treated like they're not, they get discouraged.

Real players want to play. And when they don't or can't, they lose respect for their coaches.

Maybe this is the case with Hill. We'll see.

It wasnt an age thing tho. It was a practice and arguing with coaches thing. Granted his coaches could have been trash in college but if he couldn't deal with bad coaches there just wait til he sees all the politics here when ty craw is stealing his snaps because hes a rkg

 

[tyke1doe]

I actually don’t think it is that big of a risk. Scott Frost and his staff loved Hill and he apparently had an issue with the new system the second staff brought in, probably because it made him take on blocks rather than use his burst to shoot gaps. That isn’t that terrible in the first place. Secondly, every defensive lineman who ever played in Marinelli’s system loves it like no other. It suits Hill’s strengths perfectly... he will have no problem with what he’s asked to do.

He plays two years as a true freshman and true sophomore with zero problems, and then his final year he bucks the defensive system a little and doesn’t get to start. I don’t think that is what I would categorize as a problem guy.

Also, I’ve heard people saying he was benched his final year but that is way off... he just didn’t start the game and wasn’t listed as a starter... he played a lot in every game.

Finally, if you are going to take a risk (albeit a small one here IMO)... talent like Hill has is what you take a chance on. His first step is incredibly explosive. He’s into the OL before they can really even get out of their stance. His get off is rare. And speaking for myself, when I look for traits I want out of a DL, first step explosion and quick get off is the first thing I look for... particularly in a 3T. That can’t be coached and isn’t something you find very often.

Someone who weighs 308 and has explosiveness like that? Someone who plays like his hair is on fire every snap? Well, that is someone I’d take a chance on. Especially when his transgression is so small.

After your right up, I'm sold.

 

[AsthmaField]

Nah it's all love. I just really think we could have snagged thornhill and waited for this kid at 90. I think they messed up this draft. Plus it was really cheap to move up if they wanted him that bad. I would rather have taken
58 Thornhill
78 Hill/saunders
128 Isaiah Johnson
165 Joe Jackson

I hear ya. I just think the team wanted him badly and wasn’t going to risk losing him... which I agree with. What I might have done is take Hill at 58 and them moved back up quickly for Thornhill or Rapp but the team doesn’t like to lose picks.

Hard for me to complain when I used to gripe about them using their picks willy-nilly.

Anyway, now we just have to wait and see how these guys turn out. I have high hopes for a couple/three of them.

I appreciate the discussion man.

 

[OmerV]

heard the same about Marinelli/randy Gregory relationship. it didn't work out. hope he doesn't turn out to be another david irving.

The difference is with Gregory the problem was about off the field issues. Even with a good relationship Marinelli can’t go home and babysit the player every night. With Hill it’s on the field stuff, and Marinelli will be interacting with him on the field.

 

[Kaiser]

And he had zero problems with Scott Frost or his staff. The problem was with the new staff and even then I heard it was more of a scheme issue.

Its also worth repeating that the "problem" was his junior year when he was 20 years old, then he declared early for the draft. Most players in that situation come back for their senior season, put up a big year and the issues early in their junior year are completely forgotten.

 

[Bobhaze]

Dlaw was suspended from his team 2 or 3 times

Ok...so are you saying Jerry has NOT taken too many risks early in the draft?

 

[tyke1doe]

Good story.

But it does not jell with this case. It was not a case for playing older players like you stated in the case with your son.

This was what was supposed to be a cornerstone player failing to win over a new coaching staff.

But … he started as a true freshman and a true sophomore. Then a new coaching staff comes in. What happened?
Many times, a new staff wants to put its stamp on a team, which is understandable.
But let's say you're a player who has been starting, and the team recognizes you as "the man." And then a new coaching staff comes in and has no regard for your status, for what you've done for the team, and now wants to restart things and treat you like an average Joe with the rest of the team.
I can see where that would bother a proud player. Yes, he should respect the coaches and do what it takes to win his position just like everyone else has to.
But players have egos and good/great players have huge egos.
And many players have had strained relationships with their coaches … Dan Reeves/John Elway, Terry Bradshaw/Chuck Noll, Roger Staubach/Tom Landry, Sonny Jergenson/George Allen, etc.
It happens. Shrug.

 

[Alexander]

But let's say you're a player who has been starting, and the team recognizes you as "the man." And then a new coaching staff comes in and has no regard for your status, for what you've done for the team, and now wants to restart things and treat you like an average Joe with the rest of the team.
I can see where that would bother a proud player. Yes, he should respect the coaches and do what it takes to win his position just like everyone else has to.
But players have egos and good/great players have huge egos.

This just tells me Heupel and Co had a way of doing things and Hill didn't fall in line.

I don't know about you, but I have an issue with that. It was not like Hill was a great talent at a big school.

But it sounds like he believed he was.

 

[John813]

At the point hope for the best but I guess we'll get a first look into his mindset in tc and preseason .

 

[TheSkaven]

I wonder what will happen if Garett and the rest of his coaching staff contracts are not renewed after the season. This is a cut throat business and coaches come a go.

I was wondering the exact same thing. This is all fine and good but if Martinelli is gone next year, this could be a wasted pick.

 

[jjktkk]

Or just take the sure thing in Thornhill that has ball skills to create turnovers in the secondary something we haven't seen since deion

So Thornhill is the next Deion? What a bold statement.