Witten, Crawford or Lee, Who Makes The Final 53

gimmesix said:

I really don't get why some of you are down on Witten's blocking. Is he a blocking TE? No. Never has been, never will be. Is he a pass-catching TE who can block? Yes. Parcells had Witten work on his blocking and he became good at it. Not great, but better than most pass catchers. He understands and is willing to do all the types of blocks that are asked of him, reach, cutoff, wham, wall off. He knows his assignments and how to carry them out, which has always allowed him to overcome not being as athletic as many other tight ends.

If you are looking strictly for a blocking tight end, someone who plays like a lineman in a TE's body, you need to look somewhere else. If you want someone who can catch 60 passes, slow down a DE on his pass rush or pin a linebacker to the outside or inside on a run, there's few who have been better at it than Witten.

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Gimme, always one time, Witten played just as you described. But over the past few years if you focus on Witten’s play (specifically including blocking) he sucks. That’s coming from a Witten fan. He was one of my favorite Cowboys, along with Sean Lee but stick a fork in them, they both appear to be done.

is this a trick question? lol...ALL 3. NEXT...

Witten re-retire??? There is zero chance that happens. I really don't understand all the Witten hate. The guy is a first ballot HOFer. Great veteran leader. Chain mover specialist. Catches everything. Sure he has slowed down but he will help Dak tremendously. It is not Witten's fault his talent has been wasted by Jerry and Garrett. Rico instead of Witten??? Guy is a 100% lock. Lee, baring injury, is a 100% lock. I think he can still be productive with limited snaps. Plus the guy is a great leader. I don't see any way Crawford makes the team. At DE he has no chance. Armstrong, Quinn, Taco, Lawrence, and Gregory are all ahead of him. It would take 2 injuries and / or suspensions for him to have a chance. At DT Hill and Collins are ahead of him and I can see Taco getting reps at 3T. Crawford has no place. Jackson and Jelks may also push the guy off the team. Frankly, the guy should have been gone years ago. He is a try hard guy and nothing more.

The Cowboys can't "quit" their favorites........... Witten, Lee and Crawford are three of their favorites.

There is literally zero chance, other than major injury, that any of the three isn't on the 53 man roster.

I had held out hope this front office would wise up and make a play for McCoy and then cut Crawford, but that ship sailed.

Sydla said:

The Cowboys can't "quit" their favorites........... Witten, Lee and Crawford are three of their favorites.

There is literally zero chance, other than major injury, that any of the three isn't on the 53 man roster.

I had held out hope this front office would wise up and make a play for McCoy and then cut Crawford, but that ship sailed.

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Crawford is the one that I can't get past.

Witten is a Pro Bowl talent, a proven starter, and plays a position of need. He's likely the starter at TE.

Lee is also a proven starter (injuries aside) and a Pro Bowl player, and also plays a position of need. He's set to be this team's starting SLB.

Crawford? He's a proven rotational player. He plays here or there with no true role. He occupies the most crowded position group on the team. He stands in the way of a whole bunch of young, developing players. He's never made a Pro Bowl. And he stands to cost this team far too much money, and more than Witten and Lee combined.

Oh, and he's now facing a potential league suspension so you likely won't even have him available for all 16 games. The contract has finally reached the point where its cost beneficial to cut him.

Time to cut bait.

gimmesix said:

I don't think I said that Witten is "so much better" than the other tight ends we have. I simply think it's better to find out if that's the case than to write him off.

Frankly, I think Witten could thrive this year on the underneath stuff because our receiving corps is much more dynamic than it was in 2017. He could be that consistent outlet that Dak was missing last year in the tight end group. The others have more physical ability, but he has a whole bunch more know-how about settling into holes and making himself a target for the QB.

You didn't say anything in your previous post I quoted about waiting until after camp to see what they have first. I'm in agreement with that. He's going to be king of the mountain, though, until someone knocks him off of it.

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Swaim and Schultz are fine as outlets. Witten is such a poor athlete at this stage that he gives you less than those guys because, in reality, they're always open in that outlet role.

If they are depending on those guys, and not one of Zeke, Pollard, Austin, Johnson or any other player with some athleticism to do that, then this offense is going backwards.

Verdict said:

Gimme, always one time, Witten played just as you described. But over the past few years if you focus on Witten’s play (specifically including blocking) he sucks. That’s coming from a Witten fan. He was one of my favorite Cowboys, along with Sean Lee but stick a fork in them, they both appear to be done.

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He's not as good as he was, but he was still getting the job done for the most part. The mistakes (for any player) always stand out more than when they just do their job effectively.

Here's one article with information about his blocking (based on PFF, so take it for what it's worth) from 2007-2013:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2119380-why-jason-witten-is-no-longer-an-elite-tight-end

Here's one from 2011 that shows how good he was at it at his peak: https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...nd-bennett-among-nfl-leaders-in-pass-blocking

Here's one that's probably the most interesting for today because it's about the 2017 season: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2754254-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-tight-ends-of-2017-season

This group, referred to as NFL1000 Scouts, ranked Witten as the 14th-best tight end that season. He received a blocking grade of 15/25, which was as good or better than all but 23 of the 87 listed (a lot of whom were pretty much just blocking tight ends). For reference for those who aren't able or don't have time to read the article, Rob Gronkowski ranked as the No. 1 tight end overall and had a blocking grade of 23/25; Geoff Swaim was listed at No. 63 and had a 17/25 blocking grade and James Hanna was listed at 40 with a blocking grade of 17/25. Of the 13 players ahead of Witten on the list (those who are considered top receiving tight ends as well), six had a better blocking grade for 2017.

Grading blocking is somewhat subjective, so take it for what it's worth. The eyeball test for me shows that he wasn't as good as he had been, but still was better than most receiving tight ends.

Crawford may end up suspended to start off the season.

glimmerman said:

Crawford may end up suspended to start off the season.

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"Leadership!"

Future said:

Swaim and Schultz are fine as outlets. Witten is such a poor athlete at this stage that he gives you less than those guys because, in reality, they're always open in that outlet role.

If they are depending on those guys, and not one of Zeke, Pollard, Austin, Johnson or any other player with some athleticism to do that, then this offense is going backwards.

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Swaim is gone. Jarwin has downfield ability and Schultz showed signs of being Witten-esque, but neither proved to be a guy who Prescott could depend on so that he could get the ball out of his hands. We gave up 56 sacks and on many of those you could see Dak shuffling his feet after his drop-back or patting the ball just looking for someone to throw the ball to. The tight end needs to be that guy.

Yes, we need one who can get downfield and attack the seams, like Jarwin, but we also need one who is reliably finding the soft zones, settling into them and making himself a target for the QB when there's nowhere else he's comfortable going with the ball. This is what Witten has made his living on. At one point, he could also do the deeper stuff, but his career has gone as long as it has because he knows how to use his body to nudge a defender out of the way, he knows how to deke a defender into thinking he's going to one spot when he's actually going to another, he knows how to recognize what spot is going to be left uncovered. He's not going to outrun anyone and hasn't been able to do that for most of his career, but that never was the reason why he's put together a Hall of Fame career.

Vinnie2u said:

If I remember correctly Witten’s blocking his last year was not good. Plus he kept getting those false start penalties. If the young guys can’t beat him out, then use our depth in other positions to acquire some guys that can play.

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Witten’s blocking was good his last year, but he did get to many penalties.

Witten couldn't reach his blocks or create separation 2 years ago it's not going to get better
It's a waste of a roster spot.
Loved him in his prime but game over.

QuincyCarterEra said:

Oh gotcha.

So you'd take player A who is 37 years old with no room to grow, a free agent at the end of the season, and hurts the CAP for next year since you have $4.25M less to carry over

Over Player B who is 23 years old with plenty of room to grow and showed promise at the end of last season, is under cheap team control for three more years, costs next to nothing and might be a hair worse than player A?

Yeah that's dumb.

I simply disregard anything anyone says when they think the money, CAP, contract, etc of a player doesnt effect the team.

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Hmmm, if player B had already shown the Cowboys that ability to grow that you are talking about, then why did they actually re-sign Witten? They must think that at 37 Witten is just as good if not better than the 23 year old and that any improvement the 23 year old may show would not make him better than the 37 old Witten, just saying