How much is enough?

FLCowboyFan said:

/FLAME
Look I understand holding out to get treated fairly. But Dak and Zeke both want to be the TOP paid player EVER at their position. At least Dak is here taking care of business while he makes his demand while Zeke relaxes in the Mexican sun. Lets be clear about my position here. They both deserved to be highly paid because they bring in a ton of money for the Cowboys. But they also benefit from all previous Cowboys that gave them the platform they have today.

So while they complain that they refuse to accept a top 10 contract ticket prices rise, fans salaries don't increase and the gap between the have's (the players) and their fans increases. So I ask the question. How much money is enough? Everytime someone gets a contract the next person DEMANDS a bigger one. This soaks the fans who are ultimately paying the bill through ticket prices, merchandise and purchasing the products that the team and players endorse.

So finally Why Do the Players have to get more than anyone else ever? It screams of greed and a lack of caring that we have a balanced team or who ultimately pays those exponentially higher contracts each year.
/FLAME

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Dallas brings in a lot of money for Dak, not the other way around. Dallas for example can easily sell the endorsement advantage for Dak that he can’t have with other teams.

sean10mm said:

Curiously, nobody uses this logic on the owners, who make more than any player by an order of magnitude. Why does player greed upset you but owner greed not? You're quibbling over millions when the owners are worth BILLIONS.

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Becaus you need to understand business. Which many here don't. The Jones family isnt trying to save money to put in their pocket. They are looking to pay numerous players to keep team relevant. Its called the Cap. If their was no CAP their would be no other owner in the world that you would want. These guys all would be getting paid top dollar. But Jerry can't do that. Its not that hard to understand. Pay Zeke, Dak and Amari what they all want than lose Jones, Maliek Collins, Lael Collins, and Brown, Quinn, Austin and Cobb next year. Plus any of the other guys we signed on 1 year deals.

Again, nothing forces owners to pay a player more than they want to pay them. If you don't think the guy is worth the price he's asking... don't pay it.

Ultimately the player is worth what a team will pay them, and how fans ~feel~ about it is less than irrelevant. The market is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, and if anything the cap everyone is crying about keeps the prices for the top players from being EVEN HIGHER.

In three years, Zeke will be broken down, and no one will pay him. He must get his money now, and he is going for it all.

sean10mm said:

Curiously, nobody uses this logic on the owners, who make more than any player by an order of magnitude. Why does player greed upset you but owner greed not? You're quibbling over millions when the owners are worth BILLIONS.

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Because that logic doesn't even make sense to apply to owners. None of the owners are refusing to be owners unless they are the highest paid owner. Besides, in what business do owners not make significantly more than the employees? Isn't that the point of starting or buying a business and being an owner?

FLCowboyFan said:

/FLAME
Look I understand holding out to get treated fairly. But Dak and Zeke both want to be the TOP paid player EVER at their position. At least Dak is here taking care of business while he makes his demand while Zeke relaxes in the Mexican sun. Lets be clear about my position here. They both deserved to be highly paid because they bring in a ton of money for the Cowboys. But they also benefit from all previous Cowboys that gave them the platform they have today.

So while they complain that they refuse to accept a top 10 contract ticket prices rise, fans salaries don't increase and the gap between the have's (the players) and their fans increases. So I ask the question. How much money is enough? Everytime someone gets a contract the next person DEMANDS a bigger one. This soaks the fans who are ultimately paying the bill through ticket prices, merchandise and purchasing the products that the team and players endorse.

So finally Why Do the Players have to get more than anyone else ever? It screams of greed and a lack of caring that we have a balanced team or who ultimately pays those exponentially higher contracts each year.
/FLAME

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The only thing I would say about this is we hear rumors about them wanting to be the highest paid ever, but history has proven that what the media tosses out to capture an audience isn't always true.

Zeke actually has an argument for being the highest paid ever, but his off the field stupidity and the difficulty the Cowboys have signing their star players to contracts that don't create salary cap problems is working against him.

Dak has an argument to be paid in the same range as Wentz, but not for being the highest paid ever at QB. I would like to think the media is exaggerating on this. Dak certain has seemed to be more level headed than that. But it also could be a ploy by his agent - a hard ball tactic.

sean10mm said:

Curiously, nobody uses this logic on the owners, who make more than any player by an order of magnitude. Why does player greed upset you but owner greed not? You're quibbling over millions when the owners are worth BILLIONS.

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First, no matter how much money Jones has, there is still a salary cap. We would have a salaries beyond belief if Jones could pay whatever he wanted. Second, the owner owns the frickin' team--he bought it and risked/gambled that the investment would pay off; it has because he worked his butt off. Third, the story is not over yet--give it time.

OmerV said:

Because that logic doesn't even make sense to apply to owners. None of the owners are refusing to be owners unless they are the highest paid owner. Besides, in what business do owners not make significantly more than the employees? Isn't that the point of starting or buying a business and being an owner?

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That logic does apply to a certain extent. Every owner would like to be the highest paid owner, that's why they continue to raise prices for games, parking, concessions etc., invented psl, sell licensing and naming rights and whatever other idea to make more money. The prices aren't raised because they have to pay the players more money, maybe in baseball that has no cap. The players themselves are also a business and have their own brand, so why do the fans give the brunt of the anger to the players and not the owners? The players only make more money if the league/owners make more money. Fans expect the players to take a deal for the sake of "the team", but owners aren't lowering prices for the sake of the fan. It's not the players pricing the average fans from attending games, it's the owners that are raising prices for their own sake, but somehow it's the players getting the blame.

The owners and the players need each other to make money. The owners don't refuse to be owners if they aren't the highest paid because they can just raise prices. There is a line of rich guys wanting to own a team that are just as capable. It's a lot harder to find a quality NFL starting QB than a rich guy capable and willing to buy an NFL team.

MarcusRock said:

Bad form? It's perfectly allowable and using the advantage you have. You think owners don't use their leverage in negotiations? And what people don't consider is that part of this is for Zeke's protection against being used up and left less marketable for his services when it's all said and done. It's not bad form to protect yourself. If you're the best out there (and Zeke is) and the the hub through which the offense operates why wouldn't you want to be paid like the best? And even so, it's negotiation. You ask high, the team lowballs and you meet in the middle. Yet only the players asking high gets criticized. Why is that?

My take isn't weird, it's human nature. People have all the reasons in the world for why they deserve something but if someone else speaks up about deserving more then they're called selfish whether what they get affects them or not. When certain classes of workers go on strike people with zero knowledge of the labor situation automatically side to deny those groups raises. Typically, these "certain classes" are looked down on. The media knows this which is why they always publish the wage demands and little else to get people stirred up. As I said someplace else today, the media are better psychologists than psychologists. They know human nature and use it for viewership.

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I tend to think it is as simple as fans want their team to win and expect players to be there when they are under contract.

aikemirv said:

I tend to think it is as simple as fans want their team to win and expect players to be there when they are under contract.

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I think if that were true there'd be less, "he's selfish," "trade him," "I hope the rookies ball out so he gets nothing" and other ill will-wishing posts because as of now, Zeke's holdout affects nothing until the regular season starts. He was going to play minimal if any pre-season snaps. So why wouldn't the sentiment be about hoping a deal gets done before the season starts since that's the actual timing when it would affect the team in a tangible negative fashion? I think because there's more to it. I also think I know what that "more to it" is. Same thing that was present before Lawrence's new deal and then all the "he better get in camp on time" and "he better produce" stuff afterwards by fans who somehow think they're in some position to be able to demand anything of a player when they clearly do not. That was overcompensation for feelings of inadequacy brought about by what exactly? Yeah, exactly.

Asklesko said:

In three years, Zeke will be broken down, and no one will pay him. He must get his money now, and he is going for it all.

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Since most good RB's last for 8-10 years, why would you think this?

Roadtrip635 said:

That logic does apply to a certain extent. Every owner would like to be the highest paid owner, that's why they continue to raise prices for games, parking, concessions etc., invented psl, sell licensing and naming rights and whatever other idea to make more money. The prices aren't raised because they have to pay the players more money, maybe in baseball that has no cap. The players themselves are also a business and have their own brand, so why do the fans give the brunt of the anger to the players and not the owners? The players only make more money if the league/owners make more money. Fans expect the players to take a deal for the sake of "the team", but owners aren't lowering prices for the sake of the fan. It's not the players pricing the average fans from attending games, it's the owners that are raising prices for their own sake, but somehow it's the players getting the blame.

The owners and the players need each other to make money. The owners don't refuse to be owners if they aren't the highest paid because they can just raise prices. There is a line of rich guys wanting to own a team that are just as capable. It's a lot harder to find a quality NFL starting QB than a rich guy capable and willing to buy an NFL team.

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And every player would like to be the highest paid, but the discussion wasn't about what people want, it was about it being all or nothing - either being highest paid or refusing to play at all. Few players take that position, and I don't know of any owners that do.

sean10mm said:

The truth is that player and owners are both groups of adults that are trying to maximize their return on investment. There's literally nothing else to it, and neither side is "better" than the other. You either believe in capitalism or you don't.

I do agree that Zeke especially may just be overplaying his hand. It's not like Bell going scorched earth got him anything but a similar deal to what he would have gotten anyway, but now playing on the Jets and out a year's worth of paychecks for his trouble.

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There are differences between Zeke’s & LeVeon’s situation. LeVeon gave up something like $14M under the FT and only got $35M guaranteed in FA. Zeke will forego only $3.8M. Just from a pure risk/reward standpoint, Zeke’s makes more sense. The problem though is Zeke has to play a year, this year or next, at that $3.8M to be in LeVeon’s position.

slick325 said:

Roger Goodell will make $200M by the end of his current extended deal, making him the highest paid commish in NFL history. The owners cut that check off of the fans revenue as well. If he can make that money, then the players ABSOLUTELY deserve to maximize their earnings.

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Yeah and RG isn’t even top 100 at his position...

FLCowboyFan said:

/FLAME
Look I understand holding out to get treated fairly. But Dak and Zeke both want to be the TOP paid player EVER at their position. At least Dak is here taking care of business while he makes his demand while Zeke relaxes in the Mexican sun. Lets be clear about my position here. They both deserved to be highly paid because they bring in a ton of money for the Cowboys. But they also benefit from all previous Cowboys that gave them the platform they have today.

So while they complain that they refuse to accept a top 10 contract ticket prices rise, fans salaries don't increase and the gap between the have's (the players) and their fans increases. So I ask the question. How much money is enough? Everytime someone gets a contract the next person DEMANDS a bigger one. This soaks the fans who are ultimately paying the bill through ticket prices, merchandise and purchasing the products that the team and players endorse.

So finally Why Do the Players have to get more than anyone else ever? It screams of greed and a lack of caring that we have a balanced team or who ultimately pays those exponentially higher contracts each year.
/FLAME

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I agree that you just want people to FLAME. Such a pointless discussion. You know how this works? Players want to get paid just like any other worker would want to be paid. Sports is a cut throat business. In the NFL you are only paid when you have some value. There are no guys who just hang around other than third string QB's.
I don't think Dak will get the highest QB contract nor should he. If he is getting any where near the top 5 he should take it. He is according to my rankings top 13-15 QB, but he wont settle for 20 million a year, as Cousins changed the market, and other QB's have just added to it. Wilson , Rodgers, Ryan, Big Ben, Wentz, Jimmy G, Stafford, Carr. I'm sure when Luck, Newton, Rivers, Goff, Watson hit the market Dak wont be top 5 anymore.
Throughout this off season I have been wanting Dak to take a Foles type contract but I'm sure he would never do that. It would not be in his best interest to take that kind of salary hit.
Zeke is the RB test case, I am really double minded about this and I always side with the player. It's true Zeke's value to the Cowboys is more than Freeman's value to the Falcons, or David Johnson's value to the Cards, or even Bell to Steelers. JG is such a horrible coach and he doesnt know how to run an offense without a bell cow type RB. Zeke is the prototypical bell cow running back.
I totally understand the team perspective, as you are under contract for another two years why are you holding out a year early? We will pay you when it's your turn. Zeke isnt going to miss the season so let him sit.

xwalker said:

Reasons:
#1 Agents
#2 Status
#3 Peer Pressure

Player "Greed" is way down the list of reasons.

Agents: They sell the player on how the team is screwing them over.

Status: Contracts are status in Pro Sports and most players are hyper competitive.

Peer Pressure:
- Other players (sometimes due to their agents) "scold" or "shame" players that take less than the Max.
- Friends & family constantly tell Pro Athletes how great they are and that they deserve the biggest contracts.

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Don’t pretend that these player’s huge egos don’t have a huge part in this. The greed comes with the ego.

jnday said:

Don’t pretend that these player’s huge egos don’t have a huge part in this. The greed comes with the ego.

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What do you think #2 Status means?

If Greed were a bigger issue, more players would want to play in States with NO income tax like Texas; however, it turns out players don't seem to care about those types of issues.

If there was no such thing as the salary cap I wouldn’t care if they paid Dak and zeke a billion a year. Its a concern with the contract and how it affects to the teams ability to sign the rest of the team.

OmerV said:

And every player would like to be the highest paid, but the discussion wasn't about what people want, it was about it being all or nothing - either being highest paid or refusing to play at all. Few players take that position, and I don't know of any owners that do.

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The difference if an owner wants to make more money from his team, he can just raise the price of a hot dog, tack another $10 to parking fees, or raise any other fee or price he thinks the market will bear. The OP was that it was the player's salaries causing the rise in NFL pricing, but the players have zero control on how or when prices are set or increased. That is completely controlled by the owners and the league. The owners and the league control what it costs to attend games, how to price concessions, parking, jerseys, etc. The players benefit from the increased profits, but they are not the cause of price increases. If the cap didn't continue to rise, neither would player salaries.

FLCowboyFan said:

/FLAME
Look I understand holding out to get treated fairly. But Dak and Zeke both want to be the TOP paid player EVER at their position. At least Dak is here taking care of business while he makes his demand while Zeke relaxes in the Mexican sun. Lets be clear about my position here. They both deserved to be highly paid because they bring in a ton of money for the Cowboys. But they also benefit from all previous Cowboys that gave them the platform they have today.

So while they complain that they refuse to accept a top 10 contract ticket prices rise, fans salaries don't increase and the gap between the have's (the players) and their fans increases. So I ask the question. How much money is enough? Everytime someone gets a contract the next person DEMANDS a bigger one. This soaks the fans who are ultimately paying the bill through ticket prices, merchandise and purchasing the products that the team and players endorse.

So finally Why Do the Players have to get more than anyone else ever? It screams of greed and a lack of caring that we have a balanced team or who ultimately pays those exponentially higher contracts each year.
/FLAME

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What is it any of your business how much they want to be paid or what is enough?

Your position is that of a fan. You're a stakeholder in the team from a voyeur position only, unless you are a season ticket holder. And even at that, you have no real stake in this.

Because, in the final analysis, this team makes enough money to pay them at whatever level they wish without raising the price of a ticket or beer one cent. These players are sub-contractors with the ability to demand a wage level incumbent to their talent and influence of the outcome of games by their position.

All those grousing about salaries are fans feeling they are going to miss out on a result suggested by the press because one player or several players want more money.

This is the year, the press says. Zeke holds out. Zeke is cheating us out of a championship by his behavior, the fan says or implies.

This is a false narrative. Not one person here knows for certain when this will end in a settlement. Because it will end in a settlement one way or another.

This is merely fans knee jerking to the press making this more of an issue than it is so they can inflate readership..

Not one player will break the bank.

This is the entertainment industry, no different than a film. Except the film does not post it's arbitrary cap as does the NFL. A film production is limited by profitability as is a football team. Both have essentially the same product. Viewership.

So if you are wanting to toss around greed as the reasoning behind the player wanting more money, then the real greed is the owner's who cap the ability of players to take profit from the team in an equitable fashion.

But truth is that isn't even greed in the aspect of a negative meaning such as you suggest by the use of the word greed.

Fact is Gordon Gekko was correct. Greed is good.

You're reading this because greed motivated someone to invent all the differing things, both hardware and software, that allow you to post and read here.

So finally Why Do the Players have to get more than anyone else ever?

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The league creates 7.8 billion in merchandise sales and the teams split this. The players have no recourse to increase their share in this profit taking until 2020. And that may be because of the new contract for the union.

That alone makes the renegotiation both feasible and, frankly, a tool created by owners so players with rare skills may cash a bigger check without the owners relinquishing a bigger share league wide.

This entire debacle on this and other sites is people swinging at a pitch in the dirt.