USAToday: How Dak Prescott's limitations hindered Moore's play-calling

xwalker said:

The article does not really make sense.

Play-action is a snap from Under Center.

The writer is trying to skew shotgun passing vs under-center passing by separating play-action from non play-action under-center snaps.

Most teams pass more from shotgun than from under-center.


With regards to the Saints game, here are 4 or the first 5 passes from shotgun:
3rd & 10
2nd & 9
2nd & 9
3rd & 9

They are going to use shotgun on 3rd & long for certain and probably on 2nd & long also because they want to avoid the pass rush as much as possible.

Game situations often dictate play calls and play formations.

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good response, that's the piece that's missing...the down and distance is relevant....obvious passing situations, vs. not....obviously (haha), the writer had an agenda...

blueblood70 said:

thats not on Daks skillset IMO..thats play caller issue.. Daks been under center this many year they are past having that as issue.. its the way a lot of NFL offenses are run being heavy in the shotgun...

if this is the case where its showing run then they should use that against the next few teams and make sure Daks throwing a lot more with PA and RPOs out from under center and more runs from shotgun..im sure they are discussing this in the meeting rooms..

I hate to break this news to you, its not news to the coaches, not if the Saints somehow used it to gain an advantage..they have scouts, people who do nothing but break down game film., and then coaches take tis info and make adjustments,.

if you and the place who found this info have it, the FO does for sure..all I know is the rams playoff hgame and this game the Dline lived in our backfield, some bad blocking but maybe they 100% knew a run was coming and keyed on zeke all night..they will fix it..

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I agree, that's why I didn't want this to be about Dak, but offensive predictability...….

Streetwise said:

Do you have our play action numbers? I ask because I've seen more recently than before.

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His play action numbers this year been fantastic....until they weren't against our first team with an above average defense.

erod said:

The fake is designed to create a hole in the defense, and often the primary read is a predetermined throw.

Without the fake, you have to read coverages in action and look defenders off with your eyes.

It's quite different.

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Alright guys.

Here is where we rank in pass and run rates under center and in the shotgun.

A big nothingburger.

We are right around the middle of the road.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html

Toruk_Makto said:

His play action numbers this year been fantastic....until they weren't against our first team with an above average defense.

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Well, play action is only effective if you can run the ball.

This was discussed a few years ago but it kinda went away and now it's back. I think play action from under center and just the ability to influence defenses in the passing game is better from under center but that's not the kind of QB we are getting out of College these days. I don't necessarily agree with the article but I do think that there is something to teams creating trends out of shotgun. It used to be that the shotgun formation was something you used in obvious passing situations but that is not the case anymore. Shotgun has replaced under center in a lot offenses so breaking the trend is key, assuming hard trends exist. Teams need to remove the predictability of run vs pass out of this formation if it is going to be continued to take a primary role as set of preference. Not just the Cowboys but all teams. However, might as well be in front of that curve and not behind it.

In terms of limitations, I'm going to be completely honest, a Pro QB needs to be able to run the entire Offense. Dak needs to be able to take snaps under center and complete passes to all areas of the field. If he can't do that, then there is a problem there. Having said this, is Josh McDaniels limited because he doesn't have a QB who can threaten the Defense with his mobility up field? Yeah, he is but nobody talks about that because his QB is Tom Brady and Brady is great at what he can do. Great coaches find ways to use the talents of their players. If we ever get a Tom Brady and we insist on running RPO Offense with him, then I will be a bit more concerned.

Streetwise said:

How does this compare to other QBs?

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Right in the middle.

Nothing to see here. But look at some of the Dak haters jumping all over this.

Ridiculous people.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html

Streetwise said:

Well, play action is only effective if you can run the ball.

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Not really. I saw this stat early this week somewhere, I think we threw 5 times off play action and completed 4? LBs have to honor the run if you continue to use the run game. Now, it may not be as effective as if you are averaging 5 yards a carry but it's still effective, so long as you don't abandon the run.

DC Cowboy said:

Peyton Manning was always in the shotgun, so what is the point here?

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ABQCOWBOY said:

Not really. I saw this stat early this week somewhere, I think we threw 5 times off play action and completed 4? LBs have to honor the run if you continue to use the run game. Now, it may not be as effective as if you are averaging 5 yards a carry but it's still effective, so long as you don't abandon the run.

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How? We didn't even rush the ball for 50 yards collectively. They hardly stacked the box, there were 7 or less in the box the majority of the game and were able to stay in cover 2.
Elliott averaged under 2 yards per carry.
They didn't honor anything on our offense.

Streetwise said:

How? We didn't even rush the ball for 50 yards collectively. They hardly stacked the box, there were 7 or less in the box the majority of the game and were able to stay in cover 2.
Elliott averaged under 2 yards per carry.
They didn't honor anything on our offense.

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The how is that they feared our run game, even if we were having an off day in the running game. I mean, if my recollection of the stats are correct, that's 80% efficiency using play action. In a two point game that can go either way, I don't think it's really all that hard to believe that it worked.


JMO....

DakPresgoat said:

This is the fault of the coaches if you ask me.

Unless I can see numbers that show Dak is less effective under center when he does pass.

To me this screams that the offense could use play action with him under center and really have some success if the coaches would make it happen.

I also think that’s being under center is a bit of a dying art. More and more offenses are operating almost strictly out of the shotgun. For better or worse....

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Agree

I think its understood that Dak is no Tom Brady but hes more than serviceable and a good coach should be able to exploit his strengths. I guarantee Sean Peyton or Andy Reid could maximize his potential. If they are so damn limited in play calling with him they should get another QB. I believe we are seeing Daks ceiling however that doesnt mean we cant utilize his assets better. We left a win on the table last Sunday and we cant do that any more

viman96 said:

The Saints did a great job disguising the coverage schemes and constantly bailed out to Cover 2 specifically designed to take away the deep ball. Dak did not have anywhere to throw.

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Yes the Saints did and we did a very bad job of adjusting to it. The throw to Jarwin down the middle was a cover 2 beater that was also set up by the play action. We needed to run more curls and comeback routes off of the original play call. But if Cooper doesn’t drop the ball and doesn’t push off and Witten and Zeke doesn’t fumble and Cobb doesn’t let the third down pass go through his hands, we must likely score at least 10/13 more points and are talking about possibly going to 5-0 after beating this upcoming opponent.

You mean he’s not a drop back passer and he limits the offense??? This idea that Linehan never adjusted to Dak is a load of garbage. Further, Dallas in fact, in Dak’s first year, jumped to third in the league in play action passing with Linehan, when they were bottom half of the league prior.

Garrett when he had Romo, besides not even fielding a credible running game, when he was calling plays was bottom of the barrel in play-action usage.

CowboysFaninHouston said:

I wonder if this is true? if yes, then that makes the offense predictable and limits what you can do.

no, this is not a Dak bash thread, but I am sure DakLovers will take it that way...but it may explain some of the predictability of our offense....

"....
allas quarterback Dak Prescott took 18 snaps from under center and 39 in the shotgun. Prescott has been in the shotgun more snaps than under center in every game so far this season, but there has been much more balance in previous games (32-34 against the Giants, 32-36 in Washington, and 32-39 versus the Dolphins.)

The real issue with how the formations are utilized is not so much whether they are in the shotgun more than under center, or vice-versa, but whether it becomes obvious that the offense is going to run from under center and pass from the shotgun.

Former offensive coordinator Scott Linehan was justly criticized for being too predictable. He almost always called passing plays from the shotgun and called mostly running plays when the quarterback was under center...…

...
The most glaring trend detected is that Prescott is rarely asked to drop back and pass after taking the snap from under center.

In 44 games, he has never dropped back and passed after taking the snap from under center more than three or four times in game. When he was a rookie, it was sometimes never and often only once a game...…"


https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...zjKCFzoy4CYONCLRjCBjpkBp_lLNxT_Qb4iBnOudx_Lpk

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Lmao

America's Cowboy said:

Read it already.

So we are to believe that Garrett, Moore and Kitna worked all offseason and summer on Dak's mechanics, footing & throwing motion, but they never worked on Dak taking 5 - 7 standard dropbacks and throwing from under Center?

What a bunch of baloney with the red string still wrapped around it.

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You mean Dak working on his mechanic all off-season wasn’t the same story last year as well.. Moore was the QB coach in 2018. He wasn’t working on mechanics then?

https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-co...tt-hopes-a-change-in-mechanics-yields-results

superonyx said:

I may not be understanding this article.
So we are to think that Dak can take the snap from center, fake the handoff, and then throw the ball but if you take the faking of the handoff away suddenly he can’t throw the ball?

this is beyond dumb. Unless I am missing it.

and why would a QB take the snap and not go play action when your RB will almost always freeze the defenders?

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Usually, when your dropping back, more responsibility is in diagnosing the defense and going through progressions. On play-action, your expecting a bite and a decisive, defined read you are going to from the get go. Look at the play actions that Dak throws to Jarwin or Witten in his first years in scoring distance, Dak is throwing right away because that’s the defined read.

Dak isn’tthe traditional progression, pocket QB.

Get a real QB.

That article is making a nonsensical leap in logic. It offered no evidence that Dak was ineffective at dropbacks from under center, but only that those type of plays weren't called. And even if that was the case they could have just ran more shotgun plays.

Let me explain something to calm everyone's fears. Kellen can run the same play...out of @least a dozen formations. Considering the playbook is dozens of plays..I seriously doubt teams will ever see the same play twice...or @ least be able to distinguish what is being run. This offense is Dak friendly.