Looking back On the Demarcus Lawrence contract

xwalker

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I mean you never really are supposed to let young edge rushers walk away. And they did tag him plenty of times. Having said that....ugh right

It was a given that he would be limited this season. He would not get the surgery until the contact was signed.

What fans often don't understand is that just because a player has been cleared medically to play and is not playing with an injury, the fact that they were injured keeps them from getting back to their normal physical condition during the season.

Let's say that back before the original injury that DLaw was bench pressing 400 pounds.

Now let's say that right now he is only bench pressing 200 pounds.

In the above scenario, he is "healthy" but not back to form.
 

LovinItAll

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It is impossible for him to rack up sacks with a) the way he's blocked b) the way he's used to stunt so often and c) how quick opposing teams get the ball out. This is why they paid him, and why he's worth every dollar:

He's doubled and the ball is out in less than 2.5 seconds. There's no chance for a DL to get a sack on that, but he's still influencing the play.

Sacks are a quarterback and offense stat. The sooner we get to understanding that, the better off we'll be. He still ranks 4th in pass-rush win rate - ahead of Mack, Miller, the Bosas, etc. etc. Look at his peers in double-teams vs. win rate. This is an elite group.


How dare you post metrics that don't tell the story the Tank haters spin. According to them, we could start a dude in a wheelchair and get better production.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I can only imagine how people today would have acted back in 92 and 93 when Haley only averaged 5 sacks.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I can only imagine how people today would have acted back in 92 and 93 when Haley only averaged 5 sacks.

No, I doubt this. Haley played on a team that won. He didn't play on a team that is .500, so way different situation. If we were winning, this would mean that the team and the Defense were playing well. Neither of those two things are happening to this point so I see this as a poor example of our current situation.

JMO
 

ABQCOWBOY

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See him play at a high level. There's the proof.

Let me know when you see it. As yet, that hasn't happened but more importantly, we aren't winning. So yeah, you can say what you want but it doesn't mean it's true. It means that's you opinion.
 

Haimerej

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Let me know when you see it.

Pretty much what I did.

As yet, that hasn't happened

But you said you watch the games. Why do you think he's yet to play at a high level?

but more importantly, we aren't winning.

They've won 7 games. Also, players can play at a high level on bad teams.

So yeah, you can say what you want

Freedom is a wonderful thing.

but it doesn't mean it's true.

Back at you.

It means that's you opinion.

Yes. Yes, it does. Welcome to an internet forum.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Pretty much what I did.

How? I see nothing other then your opinion.



But you said you watch the games. Why do you think he's yet to play at a high level?

I do. In fact, I rewatch them regularly. Statistically, he is having a down year in comparison to his previous two seasons. I do think he has flashed this year but over the course of the season, I don't see him playing at the level he needs to be to have a successful season. I don't see the players around him doing that either. If what many are saying is true, that he is not having a great year statistically but those around him are benefiting, then the defense would be playing better. They aren't so you can't have it both ways. This is about winning games.




They've won 7 games. Also, players can play at a high level on bad teams.

They've won 7 games in possibly the worst division in Football. We are .500, big deal. That is certainly not proof of anything other then failure. I mean, do you really look at this team and say to yourself, this season is a success? I don't. With the talent this team has, we should be contending for the best record in football, not being satisfied that we are .500. Players can play at a high level on bad teams but Lawrence isn't one of those this year.



Freedom is a wonderful thing.

Pointless but whatever....




Back at you.

On the contrary. I have statistical information and the teams record to support my position. You have what you see on TV, so far as I can tell. If this is more, I'm happy to discuss but is there more? If so, I haven't seen it.



Yes. Yes, it does. Welcome to an internet forum.

Thanks. I always welcome opions from other posters, even if they've only been on this board for like 5 minutes.
 

Haimerej

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How? I see nothing other then your opinion.

You're expecting something different? It's really all anyone has on a forum.

I do. In fact, I rewatch them regularly. Statistically, he is having a down year in comparison to his previous two seasons. I do think he has flashed this year but over the course of the season, I don't see him playing at the level he needs to be to have a successful season. I don't see the players around him doing that either. If what many are saying is true, that he is not having a great year statistically but those around him are benefiting, then the defense would be playing better. They aren't so you can't have it both ways. This is about winning games.

Define successful. As I've said, you can play at a high level on a bad team. You're very narrowly defining a high level of play by seemingly judging him on numbers and team success. Neither of those factors determine whether he's playing at a high level.

They've won 7 games in possibly the worst division in Football. We are .500, big deal. That is certainly not proof of anything other then failure. I mean, do you really look at this team and say to yourself, this season is a success? I don't. With the talent this team has, we should be contending for the best record in football, not being satisfied that we are .500. Players can play at a high level

What does the team success have to do with whether DeMarcus Lawrence plays football at a high level?

Pointless but whatever....

As was your statements about opinions on a forum. This just in- water is wet.

On the contrary. I have statistical information and the teams record to support my position.

I have his actual play on the field. That's better than team record and spreadsheets.

You have what you see on TV, so far as I can tell.

Not just me. You can see it, too.

If this is more, I'm happy to discuss but is there more? If so, I haven't seen it.

You could answer my question about why you don't think his play is at a high level. You said you haven't seen it, so what have you seen?
 

ABQCOWBOY

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You're expecting something different? It's really all anyone has on a forum.

Actually, no. I'm expecting exactly that. Opinion, which is what you are giving.



Define successful. As I've said, you can play at a high level on a bad team. You're very narrowly defining a high level of play by seemingly judging him on numbers and team success. Neither of those factors determine whether he's playing at a high level.

Winning. As I said, your opinion is just that.




What does the team success have to do with whether DeMarcus Lawrence plays football at a high level?

Well, if you are going to make the argument that he is playing well, even though the numbers do not relect this, then you are basing those assumptions on what? It has to be winning. What is it you base your statement on? You say he's playing well, yes? OK, what is it you see that make you think that? I mean, I'm watching him now and I am not seeing it, to this point.



As was your statements about opinions on a forum. This just in- water is wet.

Don't waste everybody's time with this BS. I didn't start a conversation with you. You started one with me. Don't waste my time with this kind of stuff.




I have his actual play on the field. That's better than team record and spreadsheets.

Cool story.......



Not just me. You can see it, too.

No, this is just you. I'm watching right now, it's not there.



You could answer my question about why you don't think his play is at a high level. You said you haven't seen it, so what have you seen?

I've answered it over and over. He's not effecting the game enough. He's not getting the pressures, he's not getting sacks, he's not getting the TFLs, he's not getting the tackles. I mean, what more do I need to say? What more do you want?

What's more, he's not getting doubled all the time either. That's what I'm seeing, what are you seeing?
 

Haimerej

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Winning. As I said, your opinion is just that.

So your judgment of Lawrence's level of play is whether the team wins. Seems a bit unfair but to each their own.

Well, if you are going to make the argument that he is playing well, even though the numbers do not relect this, then you are basing those assumptions on what?

His ability to play his position at the level he plays it at. Numbers don't necessarily reflect whether or not someone is playing well. I'm sure there are several offensive tackles who would disagree with your opinion that he's not playing well.

It has to be winning. What is it you base your statement on?

Winning is a team stat. Football is a team game. I base my statement on a understanding of football, the defensive concept, and his role in it.

You say he's playing well, yes? OK, what is it you see that make you think that? I mean, I'm watching him now and I am not seeing it, to this point.

You're not seeing him beat his man? Pressure the QB? Or are you just seeing 17-6 and thinking it's all his fault?
 

Haimerej

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Don't waste everybody's time with this BS. I didn't start a conversation with you. You started one with me. Don't waste my time with this kind of stuff.

You started the time wasting by waxing on about how we all have opinions.

Cool story.......

Glad you like it.

No, this is just you. I'm watching right now, it's not there.

Use your eyes.

I've answered it over and over. He's not effecting the game enough. He's not getting the pressures, he's not getting sacks, he's not getting the TFLs, he's not getting the tackles. I mean, what more do I need to say? What more do you want?

An explanation of what you're seeing. The above, "analysis," can be done by looking at a piece of paper.

What's more, he's not getting doubled all the time either. That's what I'm seeing, what are you seeing?

He's getting pressure. He's affected the QB. You say he hasn't done, "enough." Do you expect him to play QB, too?
 

ABQCOWBOY

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So your judgment of Lawrence's level of play is whether the team wins. Seems a bit unfair but to each their own.

It's a team sport. Every Player, every Coach, anybody associated with the team should be "judged" according to how the team performs. However, not solely. I am pretty sure you don't need this explained but since you seem to like to ignore the obvious, I will explain it again. He's not having a great season statistically. So, if you are going to say that the reason he is not having a great season is because he is doing things that allow other players to enjoy a great season and make plays, then that's gotta show up in things like team success. I'm not seeing that so I don't buy that argument. So no, it's not as simple as you paint it and I don't believe it's unfair. I didn't bring up this point, I simply responded to it.



His ability to play his position at the level he plays it at. Numbers don't necessarily reflect whether or not someone is playing well. I'm sure there are several offensive tackles who would disagree with your opinion that he's not playing well.

Those Tackles are welcome to step forward and make their opinions known. I haven't seen them as yet.



Winning is a team stat. Football is a team game. I base my statement on a understanding of football, the defensive concept, and his role in it.

Well, my understanding of this game is that we are a losing team right now, today. The defensive concept and his role in that did not produce enough wins to be able to beat a terrible team last night. I mean, those are that facts.

You're not seeing him beat his man? Pressure the QB? Or are you just seeing 17-6 and thinking it's all his fault?

Last night, I saw him get two pressures, no sacks and miss multiple tackles. He was playing against a terrible Offense, against backup players. I think he was playing across from Vaitai last night? That's not exactly an all world RT. He should be having much bigger games, especially against that OL, but it didn't happen. I don't think you need to look at the score to figure out what happened last night. You tell me, the best player on our Defense, where did he show up last night? What did he do to have impact? You apparently watched the game as well, what did you see? Truth be told, I saw a better game out of him last night then I've seen in most games from him but it still was not what I would expect from a guy who is supposed to be the player that can bring it home for you.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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You started the time wasting by waxing on about how we all have opinions.



Glad you like it.



Use your eyes.



An explanation of what you're seeing. The above, "analysis," can be done by looking at a piece of paper.



He's getting pressure. He's affected the QB. You say he hasn't done, "enough." Do you expect him to play QB, too?

He was so effective, we once again lost. Yeah, I'm done with this. This is a bunch of BS. Believe what you want, I suspect you are going to be in the minority.
 

Avery

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Quinn was better this year. DLaw isn’t awful, but you don’t pay him that much for that production.
 

kskboys

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Because a 1T who can eat a double team but can't rush the passer is irrelevant in today's NFL. Passrushers don't get double teamed if they aren't good passrushers...

You tell me? By your calculations, Phillips and Mayowa should be making more money. They aren't, because they aren't nearly as good.
NE, BALT, SEA, and NO disagree w/ you. If 1T's are worthless as you are proclaiming, then why do all the top super bowl contenders make sure they have one? Think about that real hard.
 
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