Looking back On the Demarcus Lawrence contract

[Future]

It’s a good thing NFL teams don’t know that Barrett, Jones, Jordan , Hunter and Watt are good otherwise they might get the same “treatment “ that the great D Law gets

please make the insanity stop

Please

it was a bad contract

You literally responded to a picture of a chart showing how those guys do not, at all, get the same treatment as DLaw.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's a bit of a contradiction, don't you think? You're literally doing what you're telling him not to do.

To say that a DE gets paid to only get sacks is a bit absurd. So, CBs are paid to only get INTs?

It's like having one of the best for cover corners in the game, a shut down guy, and complaining that he doesn't get INTs.

Yes, the "wow" stats get you larger contracts..but please don't act if the only thing a DEs money comes from is sacks. There are a whole slew of responsibilities for each position.

How so. I mean, DEs don't get paid top money to make tackles from the DE position. Those guys just don't rate. So no, I don't see where I am doing anything like you describe in your post. I mean, I'm not making the statement that says you get paid for trying hard or whatever terminology you might want to use. Show me which DE gets paid top money for just making tackles. I'm willing to discuss it but only to a point. If we are paying that kind of money for guys who can't get sacks, then we are much dumber then I ever feared. Go ahead, I'll wait to see what you say about paying top money to DEs who just get tackles.

 

[speedkilz88]

 

[Tenkamenin]

We overpaid but sorta had to.

Mr. Market always wins.

 

[Fletch]

I mean you never really are supposed to let young edge rushers walk away. And they did tag him plenty of times. Having said that....ugh right

Time to stop ******** on a contract we knew would get done. He’s a top 10 player at his position. Quit crying!!!!!

So we let him walk and rue from a distance? No thanks.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Nope. You pay them b/c of individual results to a degree, but more than that, you pay because of the results they enable for players around them and how they dictate what the opponent does.

You pay your QB b/c he improves WR/RB results.
You pay your LT b/c he improves QB results.
You pay your DT, b/c he improves LB results.

You pay your DE b/c he forces the offense to shift blocking.
You pay your RB b/c he forces the defense to commit an extra safety to the box.

The list goes on and on, and varies from team to team. But no big-money position is paid in a vacuum. When you pay DLaw, you're also paying for the production of Quinn and Collins. When you pay Zeke, you're also paying for Gallup's production against man coverage. The positions generally paid in a vacuum- LB, SS, FB, TE - generally make the least, because they have the least amount of influence on the players around them, or are a product of the big-money players.

Do you really think that Jordan Phillips should get a larger contract than Aaron Donald, or that Benson Mayowa should make double Jadeveon Clowney? No.

So you are trying to say that he got paid top money because he gets double teamed? OK, why then does this team not pay double team eating 1Techs? Hell, we aren't even all that interested in signing them. If what you say was true, then we would have several of those guys on this team but we don't. I mean, no, that doesn't hold water based on your statement. But for the sake of argument, lets say this is true. Why then are all the top pass rushers paid at the highest wage scale? Why aren't they paying guys who can just get double teamed? If it's not a pay scale based on a vacuum, why don't Backup QBs get paid like starters?

You compare Phillips Donald or Mayowa to Clowney. That's interesting. Philips is making 4.5 Mil on a one year deal, Donald is making 22.5 Mil annually. Why is that? Why is Donald making so much more then Philips? Mayowa is making 1.7 per, Clowney is making 15 per. Why is Clowney making so much more then Mayowa?

 

[Future]

So you are trying to say that he got paid top money because he gets double teamed? OK, why then does this team not pay double team eating 1Techs? Hell, we aren't even all that interested in signing them. If what you say was true, then we would have several of those guys on this team but we don't. I mean, no, that doesn't hold water based on your statement. But for the sake of argument, lets say this is true. Why then are all the top pass rushers paid at the highest wage scale? Why aren't they paying guys who can just get double teamed? If it's not a pay scale based on a vacuum, why don't Backup QBs get paid like starters?

You compare Phillips Donald or Mayowa to Clowney. That's interesting. Philips is making 4.5 Mil on a one year deal, Donald is making 22.5 Mil annually. Why is that? Why is Donald making so much more then Philips? Mayowa is making 1.7 per, Clowney is making 15 per. Why is Clowney making so much more then Mayowa?

Because a 1T who can eat a double team but can't rush the passer is irrelevant in today's NFL. Passrushers don't get double teamed if they aren't good passrushers...

You tell me? By your calculations, Phillips and Mayowa should be making more money. They aren't, because they aren't nearly as good.

 

[BigTimeBlues]

How so. I mean, DEs don't get paid top money to make tackles from the DE position. Those guys just don't rate. So no, I don't see where I am doing anything like you describe in your post. I mean, I'm not making the statement that says you get paid for trying hard or whatever terminology you might want to use. Show me which DE gets paid top money for just making tackles. I'm willing to discuss it but only to a point. If we are paying that kind of money for guys who can't get sacks, then we are much dumber then I ever feared. Go ahead, I'll wait to see what you say about paying top money to DEs who just get tackles.

Well there hancho, I'm not saying DLaw deserved the hottest of all the hot contracts. I don't think it's so clear cut, such "black and white", if you will. That's why I made the statement about the "wow"stats.

As a complete package, yeah he probably deserves top 5-10 money, because he is just that..a complete package. He may not be getting all for the sacks, but he's hitting all of the other check marks.

This is where the discrepancy comes in.

You believe, which is your opinion and that's fine, that top DE money should be going to the top DE getting sacks. All of the sacks. Where as, the role of a DE is not based solely on sacks. Does that make sense?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because a 1T who can eat a double team but can't rush the passer is irrelevant in today's NFL. Passrushers don't get double teamed if they aren't good passrushers...

You tell me? By your calculations, Phillips and Mayowa should be making more money. They aren't, because they aren't nearly as good.

No, no, you don't get to do that. My original statement was that he gets paid to get sacks. You said that's not the case and went on to say that it's not a vacuum. I made the point that it is a vacuum, other wise, all positions would be paid roughly the same. Well, is what I say true or isn't it? Good passrushers don't get double teamed if they aren't good? Really? So lets take this forward. What you are saying is that DLaw is a good pass rusher. Well, I agree, when he wants to be. So, why then did he get paid? If he were a good pass rusher but was only getting 5 sacks a season every year, would he have gotten the money he did? Nope, that wouldn't have happened, do you disagree? He got paid because he could register double digit sacks even with the double or triple. That's why he got paid. Now, you can say it's all the rest or what have you but if he's not getting home, he's not getting paid. That's just the truth of it. He ain't getting it done.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well there hancho, I'm not saying DLaw deserved the hottest of all the hot contracts. I don't think it's so clear cut, such "black and white", if you will. That's why I made the statement about the "wow"stats.

As a complete package, yeah he probably deserves top 5-10 money, because he is just that..a complete package. He may not be getting all for the sacks, but he's hitting all of the other check marks.

This is where the discrepancy comes in.

You believe, which is your opinion and that's fine, that top DE money should be going to the top DE getting sacks. All of the sacks. Where as, the role of a DE is not based solely on sacks. Does that make sense?

No, all of this is completely wrong. In fact, I've made the point that he is statistically down in pretty much, every area. Tackles, solos, Sacks, pressures, TFLs, you name it. You can say it's an all around game and all this but he got paid for sacks. He didn't get paid for all around game. Without the sacks, he never gets that contract. Now I don't discount the rest of his game but so what. He ain't getting it done period. I mean, I don't understand how anybody can argue that. He is not getting it done and the team is not showing improvement because of what he is or is not doing.

 

[Rockport]

I mean you never really are supposed to let young edge rushers walk away. And they did tag him plenty of times. Having said that....ugh right

Our homey’s will dig up anything to ***** about the Cowboys.

 

[Stsinaz12]

I mean you never really are supposed to let young edge rushers walk away. And they did tag him plenty of times. Having said that....ugh right

He better get at least 2.5 sacks Sunday and a few in the playoffs...Zeke came back now we need him too.

 

[Future]

No, no, you don't get to do that. My original statement was that he gets paid to get sacks. You said that's not the case and went on to say that it's not a vacuum.

He does not get paid just to get sacks, and is not paid in a vacuum.

If you think a DE is paid only for sacks and in a vacuum, then you think that Mayowa should get more than Clowney.

The rest of your post is too hard to read.

 

[Common Sense]

I like D-Law as a player, but the market for DEs is clearly overinflated right now, which is why teams like NE aren’t signing theirs long term.

Conventional wisdom has always been that you build your team around certain positions and pay whatever market rate is (QB, LT, pass rusher, etc.), but I’m not convinced that’s the case anymore.

 

[Future]

No, all of this is completely wrong. In fact, I've made the point that he is statistically down in pretty much, every area. Tackles, solos, Sacks, pressures, TFLs, you name it. You can say it's an all around game and all this but he got paid for sacks. He didn't get paid for all around game. Without the sacks, he never gets that contract. Now I don't discount the rest of his game but so what. He ain't getting it done period. I mean, I don't understand how anybody can argue that. He is not getting it done and the team is not showing improvement because of what he is or is not doing.

Because he is getting it done, sacks are an offensive stat.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He does not get paid just to get sacks, and is not paid in a vacuum.

If you think a DE is paid only for sacks and in a vacuum, then you think that Mayowa should get more than Clowney.

The rest of your post is too hard to read.

I never said he gets paid, JUST TO GET SACKS. Show me where I said that. What I said is he gets paid to get sacks and that's a very different statement. Yes or no, if he doesn't register double digit sacks, does he get the contract he got? Yes or no?

The point is, he isn't getting it done. You can say it's for this reason or that, doesn't really matter. He is not getting it done in any area. Numbers are down and that's black and white. You can say that while his numbers are down, he is helping others on the defense but the defense is down also. So what proof is there that he is helping anybody there? This is exactly why individual stats matter.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because he is getting it done, sacks are an offensive stat.

Sacks are both and you saying that it's an Offensive stat doesn't make it so. Sacks are both. But lets say, for the sake of discussion, it's really about pressures. Those are also down, or are you going to also say that pressures are also an Offensive stat?

 

[Future]

I never said he gets paid, JUST TO GET SACKS. Show me where I said that. What I said is he gets paid to get sacks and that's a very different statement. Yes or no, if he doesn't register double digit sacks, does he get the contract he got? Yes or no?

The point is, he isn't getting it done. You can say it's for this reason or that, doesn't really matter. He is not getting it done in any area. Numbers are down and that's black and white. You can say that while his numbers are down, he is helping others on the defense but the defense is down also. So what proof is there that he is helping anybody there? This is exactly why individual stats matter.

Right here lol. Don't try to add the "just" qualifier now.

He is not producing, regardless of contract, to this point. I don't care if you were paying him 5 million a year, he's not getting it done to this point. He has 5 sacks, which is what he's paid to do, but his numbers are way down across the board.

.
What numbers are you even talking about? He's elite in his win rate. Volume numbers don't matter.

Yes. And Clowney will get it next year too.

The proof is that Quinn and Collins are both in top-5 in win rate, and the fact that they don't give up anything through the air on long-developing routes.

 

[Future]

Sacks are both and you saying that it's an Offensive stat doesn't make it so. Sacks are both. But lets say, for the sake of discussion, it's really about pressures. Those are also down, or are you going to also say that pressures are also an Offensive stat?

Volume doesn't matter. His pressure rate is elite.

Yes, sacks are an offensive stat. I don't care if you have Reggie White, Warren Sapp, Aaron Donald, and Charles Haley rushing the passer. Quick throws and moving the pocket will prevent sacks if that's what an offense wants to do.

 

[Ranched]

"Ugh" GARRETT SUCKS!