'08 Draft- McFadden gone - and your next pick is???

[adamknite]

Terrell Owens has only had 5 complete seasons out of 11, and he had a nagging broken finger this season even though he played all 16 games.

Sometimes you can't avoid injuries.

I think I'd be happy to have a Terry Glenn, Steve Smith, Santana Moss, etc. on our team.

Or how about a Marvin Harrison? 6'0", 185. Oh he's only got 8 complete seasons out of 12. But hell what do I know? Let's completely take a guy off our radar because he's small.

Yeah and lets put him on the radar because he's fast, because we all know that's the only thing a WR needs, but he's not my first choice.

Wait? During this past draft didn't most of us took Ginn off our radars because he was so small....

I'd rather have a bigger WR with lesser speed, (not mike williams speed). Jackson is a good player, and I wouldn't mind drafting him.

 

[peplaw06]

Why not just go after a bigger reciever in Adarius Bowman, if Bowman went to a bigger name school he would be considered to be the top reciever coming out of this draft. Some of you may disagree but he has all the qualities you ask for in a reciever (Size 6-4 220 pounds), good route running, very physical (constantly break tackles), good speed for his size ( no one catches him from behind so I dont know where people get that he is really slow) and descent hands. Just think of a Owens type player as in the type of reciever not the attitude. Once scouts look at Bowman they are going to be all over him just like when Demarcus Ware was coming out.

Here is his video if you have not seen it www.Bowman12.com

I think he's a good WR too. I'm not saying we HAVE to take Jackson. I'm saying he's on my radar along with a lot of other guys. There's still a whole football season to watch before we have to make a decision. To immediately disregard a guy like DeSean Jackson -- who is a player to watch for on the Maxwell Award list, and a likely pre-season Heisman candidate -- because he's small is beyond ridiculous.

 

[TheGoat73]

trade down to middle of first round, take a CB and an interior DL in the first round (provided they are reasonably close to BPA) and pick up a 1st rounder next year.

 

[peplaw06]

Yeah and lets put him on the radar because he's fast, because we all know that's the only thing a WR needs.

Wait? During this past draft didn't most of us took Ginn off our radars because he was so small....

He's on the radar for a lot of reasons. You're taking him off because he's small. And it doesn't matter where Ginn was on your radar. He was taken at 9, and you have no idea right now how good of an NFL player he is. He very well could have been on the Boys radar in the 20s, but he was gone. I'm suspecting he was at least on the radar. You have to think about playmakers like that. You don't immediately bypass them because they're small.

I went through the list of NFL WRs, and while not calculating the stats, there are probably just as many WRs who are 6'0" or smaller as there are WRs over 6 foot.

 

[adamknite]

He's on the radar for a lot of reasons. You're taking him off because he's small. And it doesn't matter where Ginn was on your radar. He was taken at 9, and you have no idea right now how good of an NFL player he is. He very well could have been on the Boys radar in the 20s, but he was gone. I'm suspecting he was at least on the radar. You have to think about playmakers like that. You don't immediately bypass them because they're small.

I went through the list of NFL WRs, and while not calculating the stats, there are probably just as many WRs who are 6'0" or smaller as there are WRs over 6 foot.

Reread my post, I edited it. I haven't taken him off my radar. Also I'm not talking about height, I'm talking about frame when I say small. Jackson's frame looks bigger then Ginn's but that isn't exactly hard to do.

Emmitt Smith was on the small side but he had a strong frame, which could take more abuse.

 

[theogt]

:laugh2:

By the way, if you believe Jackson is 6' tall, I've got some ocean-front property to sell you.

 

[peplaw06]

By the way, if you believe Jackson is 6' tall, I've got some ocean-front property to sell you.

How tall is he then?

 

[locked&loaded]

the boss in my sig

 

[J-DOG]

I think he's a good WR too. I'm not saying we HAVE to take Jackson. I'm saying he's on my radar along with a lot of other guys. There's still a whole football season to watch before we have to make a decision. To immediately disregard a guy like DeSean Jackson -- who is a player to watch for on the Maxwell Award list, and a likely pre-season Heisman candidate -- because he's small is beyond ridiculous.

My only thing is that if we are drafting in the top 5 picks next year and Mcfadden in gone are we seriously going to take a guy like Deshaun Jackson?
I know there are no sure things when you talk about the draft but I would have a hard time drafting a Jackson over a Bowman if we are drafting in the top 5.
Desmond Howard and Peter Warrick come to mind when thinking about that.
I know Santana Moss and Steve Smith are great wr's but those guys were not drafted in the top 5 of thier drafts either.
I would think you would try your best to get a player who is as close to measuring up to the physical prototype as you can before you roll the dice on a wr who may be to small to make it at the next level...especially that high in the draft.
All things being equal(speed/production) I go with the player who is bigger, no matter what position it is.

 

[Bizwah]

Or how about a Marvin Harrison? 6'0", 185.

Again, we're talking about 20 pounds here. That's a HUGE difference.

Steve Smith, Santana Moss, Marvin Harrison, were all smaller in college...but they never were listed as small as Jackson. In fact, they were listed 15-20 pounds heavier.

There isn't a good track record of players under 175 pounds in the NFL.

If Jackson shows up to the combine weighing around 185....then, I'd consider drafting him high.

At 166, he's not worth a first round pick....period.

 

[tomson75]

I'm pretty sure the Jackson knows he small. I'm also pretty sure he'll do his best to rectify that. His frame could easily support another 20-25 lbs and retain that speed. We'll see.

All we're doing here is projecting what we think could happen. I'd be willing to project that Jackson will measure up better come next April then he did last year when he weighed in at 166. If he does, and retains that speed, IMO he'd be the best reciever in the draft...as of what I've seen thus far.

There's to much time between now and then to write off anyone, expecially a player as dynamic as Jackson.

Who knows, hopefully someone around 6'2" 220 steps up there game and becomes a major player. It happens every year. Until then, Jackson (or what I'm hoping Jackson can become, is my guy at WR.

 

[Bizwah]

I'm pretty sure the Jackson knows he small. I'm also pretty sure he'll do his best to rectify that. His frame could easily support another 20-25 lbs and retain that speed. We'll see.

All we're doing here is projecting what we think could happen. I'd be willing to project that Jackson will measure up better come next April then he did last year when he weighed in at 166. If he does, and retains that speed, IMO he'd be the best reciever in the draft...as of what I've seen thus far.

There's to much time between now and then to write off anyone, expecially a player as dynamic as Jackson.

Who knows, hopefully someone around 6'2" 220 steps up there game and becomes a major player. It happens every year. Until then, Jackson (or what I'm hoping Jackson can become, is my guy at WR.

Todd Pinkston had the frame too.....some guys just can't add weight or strength.

I'm not going to totally write off Jackson. But I can't see how anyone right now, can look at him as a can't miss prospect.

He has a huge deficiency in size. That can be improved, but until he does, he's not a first round prospect, IMO.

 

[Alexander]

B) Stay put, take Slaton then draft a WR in the 20s (Sweed, Manningham, Jackson, etc.)?

If you do that, I think it negates the whole idea of getting the extra first to begin with.

You do that to get an extra choice which allows you either a clean shot at a special player or the ability to move up for a special player.

Hopefully we are in a position talent-wise next year that we don't have to spend the first round choices on two players unless it is a luxury not a necessity.

And Slaton is like a cut-rate version of Reggie Bush. I would not waste the time.

 

[sandy007]

What about one of these four players:
Jake Long T Michigan
Mario Manningham WR Michigan
Limas Sweed WR Texas.

However I think the Cowboys want Darren McFadden and will trade up to get him. Felix Jones of Arkansas may come out. If he is there in the late first round or the second round, I would take him.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

At this point I could easily see us with 1st round needs at:

WR
CB
RB
NT

Having any of those areas touched on in the first round would be fine by me.

 

[peplaw06]

My only thing is that if we are drafting in the top 5 picks next year and Mcfadden in gone are we seriously going to take a guy like Deshaun Jackson?
I know there are no sure things when you talk about the draft but I would have a hard time drafting a Jackson over a Bowman if we are drafting in the top 5.
Desmond Howard and Peter Warrick come to mind when thinking about that.
I know Santana Moss and Steve Smith are great wr's but those guys were not drafted in the top 5 of thier drafts either.
I would think you would try your best to get a player who is as close to measuring up to the physical prototype as you can before you roll the dice on a wr who may be to small to make it at the next level...especially that high in the draft.
All things being equal(speed/production) I go with the player who is bigger, no matter what position it is.

I don't think we'd take Jackson in the Top 5 if we pick there. I'm thinking more about looking at him in the 20s.

Again, we're talking about 20 pounds here. That's a HUGE difference.

Steve Smith, Santana Moss, Marvin Harrison, were all smaller in college...but they never were listed as small as Jackson. In fact, they were listed 15-20 pounds heavier.

There isn't a good track record of players under 175 pounds in the NFL.

If Jackson shows up to the combine weighing around 185....then, I'd consider drafting him high.

At 166, he's not worth a first round pick....period.

He's already at 172. So it's 13 pounds to 185. And you know he's going to put on more.

I just don't get how you can completely not consider a guy, then magically start to consider him because he puts on 10 pounds. If he can play, he can play. He has to be in the conversation.

I'm pretty sure the Jackson knows he small. I'm also pretty sure he'll do his best to rectify that. His frame could easily support another 20-25 lbs and retain that speed. We'll see.

All we're doing here is projecting what we think could happen. I'd be willing to project that Jackson will measure up better come next April then he did last year when he weighed in at 166. If he does, and retains that speed, IMO he'd be the best reciever in the draft...as of what I've seen thus far.

There's to much time between now and then to write off anyone, expecially a player as dynamic as Jackson.

Who knows, hopefully someone around 6'2" 220 steps up there game and becomes a major player. It happens every year. Until then, Jackson (or what I'm hoping Jackson can become, is my guy at WR.

Todd Pinkston had the frame too.....some guys just can't add weight or strength.

I'm not going to totally write off Jackson. But I can't see how anyone right now, can look at him as a can't miss prospect.

He has a huge deficiency in size. That can be improved, but until he does, he's not a first round prospect, IMO.

I can point to guys with prototypical size who didn't make it too, for whatever reason. And Todd Pinkston wasn't half the playmaker that Jackson is. There are no guarantees in the NFL. You have to look at the whole package, then make your determination.

If you do that, I think it negates the whole idea of getting the extra first to begin with.

You do that to get an extra choice which allows you either a clean shot at a special player or the ability to move up for a special player.

Hopefully we are in a position talent-wise next year that we don't have to spend the first round choices on two players unless it is a luxury not a necessity.

And Slaton is like a cut-rate version of Reggie Bush. I would not waste the time.

I'm with you. I think the Cleveland pick is house money. It's easier to gamble when you're playing with house money.

 

[Bizwah]

I just don't get how you can completely not consider a guy, then magically start to consider him because he puts on 10 pounds. If he can play, he can play. He has to be in the conversation.

Simple....I never said I completely wouldn't "consider" him. I wouldn't "consider" him in round one at 166.

Todd Pinkston and Brandon Lloyd could play in college. So could a lot of other guys.

Size matters in the NFL. Line up Jackson against DeAngelo Hall. Hall would cream him off the route..........

I can point to guys with prototypical size who didn't make it too, for whatever reason. And Todd Pinkston wasn't half the playmaker that Jackson is. There are no guarantees in the NFL. You have to look at the whole package, then make your determination.

You're right that there are no guarantees in the NFL. You HAVE to try to hedge your bets the best that you can. That's why taking a 166 pound WR in round one is a bad idea.

You guys look at him and assume that he'll put on the weight and still retain his speed and quickness. I thought Ginn would do the same. He was 175 last summer and never seemed to add the needed weight. I don't think he'll succeed as a WR until he gains some weight and strength.

Name one successful player in the NFL under 170......

 

[burmafrd]

It is impossible to say that he can add 20 lbs and not lose speed and quickness. Its impossible to say that he can't. BUT you are not going to draft a guy that you know is going to have to add a fair amount of weight to be able to hold his own. THAT is too much of a risk. Certainly not in the first rd.

 

[Alexander]

Name one successful player in the NFL under 170......

There comes a certain point and time when size does matter.

With a top draft choice, it will.

We have seen less push players down draft boards.

Unless Jackson has magically transformed his body and put on much more mass (and not just a few pounds), he's not going to be a top choice.

That won't stop him from being a good player. It just will keep him from being a top choice and inserted into an alpha role.

 

[theogt]

How tall is he then?

Not sure. Maybe 5'11" at most. Looks about 5'10" or so. He's about 5-6 inches shorter than Randy Moss.


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