10 Reasons why we should Draft Joe Staley

[MichaelWinicki]

Great another Staley pimp thread...

I've got news for you-- we aren't drafting this guy.

 

[acruther]

Well thought out post. Good job. I sure would like to get Staley but only if he is the best player on our board when it is our time to pick.

Ideally, I would love to trade down to a lower pick in round one and and have two second rd picks giving us 3 picks in the first two rounds. Staley, Rice or top rated WR on our board and an edge rusher DL/Lb.

Our team is in pretty good shape talent-wise. I think we should be drafting quality over quantity, because I'll we'll be doing by drafting more bodies is pushing role players and ST players off the team in lieu of guys who may never start for us. I think, like most years, there is a significant drop-off in talent between the 1st and 2nd round (obviously I'm not talking about the bottom of 1st/top of 2nd, but mid 1st vs. mid 2nd).

The other issue is that you would have to find a trading partner with 2 seconds to trade down for your scenario to work. Plus, the value of 2 seconds is pretty high in comparison to a #22. They would have to be latish 2nd round picks. So, I think a more realistic scenario would be our first to move down in the 1st and get a late 1st and a late 3rd.

Draft value chart - http://www.theredzone.org/2006/draft/draftvaluechart.asp

Personally, I like the players where we are more than I like the players at the end of the 1st (based on the mocks from credible sources). About the only guy it might be worth trading down to snag might be Sidney Rice or maybe one of the DE/3-4 OLBs live Moss or Spencer. I just am not that excited about Rice over a guy like Jason Hill or Allison (or even Gonzalez). As for taking abother OLB early, I would like to see about Carpenter first.

 

[acruther]

Great another Staley pimp thread...

I've got news for you-- we aren't drafting this guy.

LOL, someone could pimp any particular player and the chances are we wouldn't pick him. How about you attack the logic of the post rather than play Carnak...

 

[MichaelWinicki]

LOL, someone could pimp any particular player and the chances are we wouldn't pick him. How about you attack the logic of the post rather than play Carnak...

I have with the 18 previous ham & eggers that started a thread about this guy.

 

[Sandyf]

I agree with the fact that we have to start finding good OL in the draft but that said, I believe that 22 is far to high for Staley. He did dominate the position at Central Michigan and did have a great 40 time but Central Michigan isn't Wisconsin or Texas and how many LT or RT need to be 40 yards down field for blocks.

I would like him late first or early second, somewhere between the 30th and 50th picks.

We need guys in the trenches but my perference would be Blalock at LG in place of Kosier. Kosier is fine and probably would be good at either OG spot but he is an average guard not ever going to be All Pro caliber. He doesn't manhandle guys like Blalock can.

Also McQuistan is being touted by our OL coach as being a potential ALL Pro because of ability. Supposedly he has a chance to start in place of Flo this year which would be interesting if so.

Colombo is looking more and more as the long term solution to RT at least for the next two years and maybe beyond.

Guess I would rather see Blalock open holes at the LG spot for Jones and Barber than Staley.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

That was one of the best posts in a long time--great job.....I will research this player.....you got my interest up with ALL those valid points.

Maybe we don't need Ginn

 

[acruther]

I have with the 18 previous ham & eggers that started a thread about this guy.

ham & egger? I would be insulted if I knew what the heck that was supposed to mean.

I went back and read your arguments in one of the two threads started specifically about Staley (this makes 3). Your arguments are (to summarize):

• Staley is a project - this argument is a little weak because the guy has played LT and has played very well. He has not seen alot of top competition, but when he did he held his own. Yes the guy moved around a bit, which is why he might be there at 22. You aren't going to get the best player in the draft at 22, unless you are very lucky.
• Staley can't help us immediately so we shouldn't draft him because fans/media will light up the team for having the foresight to draft for the future. - who gives fig what fans and the media think. You have to draft for your future needs at several key positions - WR, OL, DL, QB. These positions take time to develop and if you run someone out there too early, you can ruin them. We have a decent LT, but we could definitely do better and we could definitely go cheaper. We have gazillions tied up in that line. Time to get a little younger.
• Staley is an Al Johnson clone who can't pack on more weight. - this is just your best guess. Really, you have no idea and neither do I - unless you are Joe Jurassic. So we'll let that alone.
• We will resign Adams - so this is kind of the crux of my argument. I don't want to resign Adams. I want to replace him with someone better, younger, and cheaper. Plus, if we do sign Staley and he does bust (keeping in mind that tackles are less likely than other positions), we can still resign Adams.
• The tackles this year and weak, so taking one is ill-advised - I agree the tackles are not as deep as some years, but Thomas is going to be a good player. Levi Brown is going to be a good player. I think Staley is going to be a good player. I also like Ryan Harris late in the 2nd. It's not the worst class I've seen by any stretch.
• McQuistan looks to be something - besides a baby-eater? Well, I have no proof of that at all. I kind of have to go off what I see, and I've seen nothing of him, so I don't really figure him into my projections. Oh, and Parcells stamp of approval means little to nothing as far as offensive linemen go.
• We should draft a CB or WR instead - I'm all for taking a WR, but they are riskier picks. Also, the WR depth is really, really good this year so if you are going to wait on drafting any position, I would think it would be WR. The CBs this year look decent, like they look every year. I don't think Ross or Reavis or Houston are special players though. One of them will probably surprise me, but will we pick the right one??? I would rather stand pat at CB for now. Maybe next year.

My reponses are in red

 

[acruther]

I would like him late first or early second, somewhere between the 30th and 50th picks.

I think he'll be gone by then after his Pro Day.

We need guys in the trenches but my perference would be Blalock at LG in place of Kosier. Kosier is fine and probably would be good at either OG spot but he is an average guard not ever going to be All Pro caliber. He doesn't manhandle guys like Blalock can.

I like Blalock alot. Not sure the team will go 1st round for a LT, but I'm very sure not for a guard. However, we're talking about what the team should do, not what it will do, so I think you make a good argument for Blalock. He could make an immediate impact.

Also McQuistan is being touted by our OL coach as being a potential ALL Pro because of ability. Supposedly he has a chance to start in place of Flo this year which would be interesting if so.

Where have you read that??? I've seen nothing remotely like this on McQuistan. If true, then I need to reevaluate my take on him, but I'm darn sure I would remember reading anything like this about him.

Colombo is looking more and more as the long term solution to RT at least for the next two years and maybe beyond.

Guess I would rather see Blalock open holes at the LG spot for Jones and Barber than Staley.

I would like to say Blalock is probably a safer pick, but of course he's a Horn lineman and they always seem to suck when they get to the Pros. I say this as a Horn fan, by the way.

I do think we could definitely trade down and snag Blalock. Scott Wright has him going at 44 right now, for what that's worth.

 

[newlander]

The original thread is well thought out, but I agree with Sandy. #22 in the first round is just a reach for this guy. Nothing against his ability-his upside is off the charts-but I seriously doubt he'd be our highest rated player on the board at that time guys-that's what it comes down to. Ginn, Bowe, Meachem, Revis, Ross are all rated higher. As are Moss, Spencer, etc... I do believe. So that's how it will go down. HOWEVER, I really like the thought process of getting this kid because I strongly feel he could be a solid LT in this league for 8 years or so if he avoids injury...............man what a dilemma. Any way we could dump alot of the driftwood picks in the 5th, 6th and 7th rounds to get him in the 2nd round? A draft of Ginn and staley would thrill me. (no I'm not smoking crack)

 

[MichaelWinicki]

ham & egger? I would be insulted if I knew what the heck that was supposed to mean.


Well please let me know what you would understand so I can properly insult you.


I went back and read your arguments in one of the two threads started specifically about Staley (this makes 3). Your arguments are (to summarize):

• Staley is a project - this argument is a little weak because the guy has played LT and has played very well. He has not seen alot of top competition, but when he did he held his own. Yes the guy moved around a bit, which is why he might be there at 22. You aren't going to get the best player in the draft at 22, unless you are very lucky.
• Staley can't help us immediately so we shouldn't draft him because fans/media will light up the team for having the foresight to draft for the future. - who gives fig what fans and the media think. You have to draft for your future needs at several key positions - WR, OL, DL, QB. These positions take time to develop and if you run someone out there too early, you can ruin them. We have a decent LT, but we could definitely do better and we could definitely go cheaper. We have gazillions tied up in that line. Time to get a little younger.
• Staley is an Al Johnson clone who can't pack on more weight. - this is just your best guess. Really, you have no idea and neither do I - unless you are Joe Jurassic. So we'll let that alone.
• We will resign Adams - so this is kind of the crux of my argument. I don't want to resign Adams. I want to replace him with someone better, younger, and cheaper. Plus, if we do sign Staley and he does bust (keeping in mind that tackles are less likely than other positions), we can still resign Adams.
• The tackles this year and weak, so taking one is ill-advised - I agree the tackles are not as deep as some years, but Thomas is going to be a good player. Levi Brown is going to be a good player. I think Staley is going to be a good player. I also like Ryan Harris late in the 2nd. It's not the worst class I've seen by any stretch.
• McQuistan looks to be something - besides a baby-eater? Well, I have no proof of that at all. I kind of have to go off what I see, and I've seen nothing of him, so I don't really figure him into my projections. Oh, and Parcells stamp of approval means little to nothing as far as offensive linemen go.
• We should draft a CB or WR instead - I'm all for taking a WR, but they are riskier picks. Also, the WR depth is really, really good this year so if you are going to wait on drafting any position, I would think it would be WR. The CBs this year look decent, like they look every year. I don't think Ross or Reavis or Houston are special players though. One of them will probably surprise me, but will we pick the right one??? I would rather stand pat at CB for now. Maybe next year.

My reponses are in red

I became bored reading all that.

I believe we have a much greater need at CB and WR due to age.

I also believe a higher rated CB and/or WR will be available at pick #22, and if so I go with one of them.

 

[BigDave95]

Staley's Pro Day workout

1.64 10-yard dash
4.4 short-shuttle
7.09 3-cone drill
2.73 20-yard dash
32" vertical
9'4" long-jump

but I agree that there's more to it than just numbers, but Staley was real good at CMU

LOL.... His 3 cone time is better than Dwayne Jarrett's.

 

[acruther]

The original thread is well thought out, but I agree with Sandy. #22 in the first round is just a reach for this guy. Nothing against his ability-his upside is off the charts-but I seriously doubt he'd be our highest rated player on the board at that time guys-that's what it comes down to. Ginn, Bowe, Meachem, Revis, Ross are all rated higher. As are Moss, Spencer, etc... I do believe. So that's how it will go down. HOWEVER, I really like the thought process of getting this kid because I strongly feel he could be a solid LT in this league for 8 years or so if he avoids injury...............man what a dilemma. Any way we could dump alot of the driftwood picks in the 5th, 6th and 7th rounds to get him in the 2nd round? A draft of Ginn and staley would thrill me. (no I'm not smoking crack)

Fair enough. I have seen Staley go anywhere from 20 to the early second round, so I'm just not sure. I think there is a lot of fluidity to the late first, early second so we'll see. I hope Wright updates him mock soon. I'm curious to see where Staley ranks after his Pro Day.

I would add, though, that I do not want Ginn at all. That guy has bust written all over him. Not terribly productive, not tough, not big, not a great route runner. All he has is speed - which isn't terrible - but it's not enough. I would rather have Jarrett than Ginn - and I don't really want Jarrett either. I think Jason Hill would make a better Glenn replacement than Ginn.

 

[acruther]

Well please let me know what you would understand so I can properly insult you.

OK, fine. You made me look up ham & egger on urbandictionary.com:

• A common person who might be seen eating ham and eggs. Not posessing many spectacular qualities. Your 'average joe'.

Nope, gotta say that ain't me. It is amazing that you would say that about a guy pumping up a tackle prospect over a WR or CB. Let's be honest, WR and CB are glory positions and Joe fan is always going to pull for them. Now I'm not saying there isn't good reason to draft these this year, because there is. I'm just saying Joe fan doesn't get too excited about offensive linemen.

I became bored reading all that.

Fair enough, then I won't waste anymore time responding to your posts.

 

[Clove]

1. The guy is a physical freak. 6"6', 306 and runs a 4.75 forty. He benched one less rep than Joe Thomas - top 10 rated Joe Thomas. Several coaches on hand at his pro day stated it was one of the best workouts by an offensive lineman they had ever witnessed. He could end up being the best OT in this draft.
2. He is a legitimate left tackle prospect. This means we can finally replace underperforming Flozell Adams (in 2008). Further, his speed will allow him to deal with the speed rushers that have eaten Adams alive.
3. We are not in a position where we have to start Staley immediately. We can give Staley a year to get stronger and work in with the current offensive line. Then in 2008 he will be ready to take over. If he is not, then we still have the option to keep Adams.
4. Staley's speed and athleticism will allow us to have a ton of flexibility with our running game. Last year, we had one guy who could pull well - Kosier. Columbo was OK at it as well. Adams, Rivera, Gurode - please. With Leonard Davis, Kosier, and Staley on the roster, we could have 3 guys who can block in space. This is great because we could run screens and counters to both sides of the line.
5. Staley is a smart player who could very well play guard for us this season. The guy played TE, RT, and LT in college, a fact that actually hurts his draft grade (he's had less experience at LT). However, this kind of flexiblity will serve him well in Dallas.
6. Staley had a sprained ankle in college. That's it. He's got his original knees. So we're drafting a very healthy player. Always a good sign.
7. 3 out of our 5 starting offensive lineman are free agents. None of our starters are on their rookie contracts. As a result, we are sucking up a ton of our cap in the OLine. We need to get younger, cheaper, and more athletic on the OLine and Staley accomplishes that.
8. The quality of offensive linemen drops off precipitously after the mid second round. Depth at WR and CB is much better. I don't see anyone who we can draft who will definitely start for us this year (except possibly Blalock or Nelson). So if we're drafting for the future, there are few positions as important as LT.
9. Our policy of not drafting offensive linemen early has not worked. The guys we've taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds have not worked out for the most part. Obviously Gurode and Adams are the most recent exceptions, but the list of failures is a much, much longer list. Jones needs to revisit this assumption of his. LT is one of the elite positions in the NFL and it's worth investing a 1st round pick in one.
10. Games are won in the trenches. It's a plattitude, I realize, but it is undeniably true. If we continue to invest in our OLine, we will improve all our offensive skill position players as a matter of course.
11. EDIT: Vela did a great analysis showing that tackles had one of the lowest bust rates of 1st round picks. (http://theboysblog.com/2007/03/25/bust-factors-offense/)

http://img441.*************/img441/1724/2007draftny1.gif
________________________________________________________________________________

Not to change the subject, but that draft sig you have there is unbelievable... I would roll over and die of happiness if we drafted your flash sig pic.

 

[TDH]

I like your thinking acruther

Staley and McQuistan would be ideal bookends at OT

What is wrong with you sac? Seriously, are you Pat McQuistan? We have seen NOTHING from him to suggest he may be a "Bookend" Seriously what are you talking about, i have seen you post this stuff about McQ before. I have heard that some coached were happy that they thought he was exceeding their 7TH ROUND expectations, but a mainstay and a future "Bookend"...but again, WHAT IN the #$@* ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

 

[acruther]

Not to change the subject, but that draft sig you have there is unbelievable... I would roll over and die of happiness if we drafted your flash sig pic.

Gratz...actually it's not my sig pic here because this board doesn't allow animated gifs in sigs. But thanks for the feedback. The only thing we don't address with that draft is the secondary, but I'm hoping Hamlin does that.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

OK, fine. You made me look up ham & egger on urbandictionary.com:

• A common person who might be seen eating ham and eggs. Not posessing many spectacular qualities. Your 'average joe'.

Nope, gotta say that ain't me. It is amazing that you would say that about a guy pumping up a tackle prospect over a WR or CB. Let's be honest, WR and CB are glory positions and Joe fan is always going to pull for them. Now I'm not saying there isn't good reason to draft these this year, because there is. I'm just saying Joe fan doesn't get too excited about offensive linemen.



Fair enough, then I won't waste anymore time responding to your posts.

Cool. I wouldn't want you to waste like your 90th post on me.

It's been fun jousting with you anyway.

 

[acruther]

SackMaster from http://www.cowboys-forum.com posted this on a similar thread. Drew Boylhart is one of the best draft profilers out there, so if you don't believe me (which you have no real reason to), listen to him, because he knows his stuff.
_________________________________________________________
Joe Staley OT Central Michigan

STRENGTHS
Joe is a very well-built and athletic offensive tackle. He is a complete OT whose blocking techniques in both the running and passing game are excellent. Joe biggest asset is his balance. He very rarely over-extends or lunges to make his blocks and in keeping his balance while making his blocks, he is able to recover very quickly when he gets fooled. He might be the most complete O-lineman in this draft to go along with being the most athletic OT in this draft. Joe shows leadership qualities and excellent mental toughness. Joe will be able to help the team that drafts him right away.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE
Although Joe has excellent athletic abilities, his lateral agility is on the slow side for the level of competition he plays in currently. This issue might make a team shift Joe to the right side where a tight end could help him on passing plays. In his defense, I do not believe that Joe has played the LT position for that many seasons and I think with some technique work, this could be a moot point.

TALENT BOARD ROUND: 1
Jason Peters (LT Buffalo Bills) was drafted as a Tight End, but has worked himself into a future Pro Bowl LT because of his excellent athletic talent and hard work. Joe Staley is going to be drafted as a LT who was a former Tight End; he, too, has the athletic talent and work ethic to turn himself into a Pro Bowl LT for the team that drafts him. I know that most everyone is going to downgrade Joe because of his level of competition, but I will not because of his athletic talent and work ethic. Even if you have to move Joe over to the right side, you have still drafted yourself one hell of an offensive lineman. In fact, even if you have to move him into the LG position, you’ve still drafted yourself a hell of an offensive lineman. The truth is, I think he will be a superior lineman no matter where he lines up and that’s what the draft is all about -- drafting good players that can help your team at any position right away. Joe is that type of player. I believe that once Joe works out at the combine, you will see him move up really fast. I would not be surprised at all to see one of the teams that make it to the Super Bowl pick this kid at the end of the 1st round. If they don’t, then someone is going to get a great “steal” in the second. You remember when I told you about Logan (Instant) Mankins? (See profile in archives.) Now, I’m telling you about Mighty Joe Staley -– another 1st round offensive lineman talent from a division that everyone loves to overlook because of its level of competition. When will they learn? Drew Boylhart
December/2006

 

[jay cee]

ham & egger? I would be insulted if I knew what the heck that was supposed to mean.

I went back and read your arguments in one of the two threads started specifically about Staley (this makes 3). Your arguments are (to summarize):

• Staley is a project - this argument is a little weak because the guy has played LT and has played very well. He has not seen alot of top competition, but when he did he held his own. Yes the guy moved around a bit, which is why he might be there at 22. You aren't going to get the best player in the draft at 22, unless you are very lucky.
• Staley can't help us immediately so we shouldn't draft him because fans/media will light up the team for having the foresight to draft for the future. - who gives fig what fans and the media think. You have to draft for your future needs at several key positions - WR, OL, DL, QB. These positions take time to develop and if you run someone out there too early, you can ruin them. We have a decent LT, but we could definitely do better and we could definitely go cheaper. We have gazillions tied up in that line. Time to get a little younger.
• Staley is an Al Johnson clone who can't pack on more weight. - this is just your best guess. Really, you have no idea and neither do I - unless you are Joe Jurassic. So we'll let that alone.
• We will resign Adams - so this is kind of the crux of my argument. I don't want to resign Adams. I want to replace him with someone better, younger, and cheaper. Plus, if we do sign Staley and he does bust (keeping in mind that tackles are less likely than other positions), we can still resign Adams.
• The tackles this year and weak, so taking one is ill-advised - I agree the tackles are not as deep as some years, but Thomas is going to be a good player. Levi Brown is going to be a good player. I think Staley is going to be a good player. I also like Ryan Harris late in the 2nd. It's not the worst class I've seen by any stretch.
• McQuistan looks to be something - besides a baby-eater? Well, I have no proof of that at all. I kind of have to go off what I see, and I've seen nothing of him, so I don't really figure him into my projections. Oh, and Parcells stamp of approval means little to nothing as far as offensive linemen go.
• We should draft a CB or WR instead - I'm all for taking a WR, but they are riskier picks. Also, the WR depth is really, really good this year so if you are going to wait on drafting any position, I would think it would be WR. The CBs this year look decent, like they look every year. I don't think Ross or Reavis or Houston are special players though. One of them will probably surprise me, but will we pick the right one??? I would rather stand pat at CB for now. Maybe next year.

My reponses are in red

I loved your first post, and your response even more. Great work.

I don't follow college football that closely so I for one appreciate when you guys put the effort into writing a well thought out opinion on why you think a particular player would be the right one to draft.

And I think it's dumb when others try to flame the post just because, they don't want to draft that particular player.

 

[acruther]

I loved your first post, and your response even more. Great work.

I don't follow college football that closely so I for one appreciate when you guys put the effort into writing a well thought out opinion on why you think a particular player would be the right one to draft.

And I think it's dumb when others try to flame the post just because, they don't want to draft that particular player.

Gratz. Yeah, I prefer intelligent debate to name-calling as well. Probably why I got banned from http://www.dallascowboyscentral.com.

:laugh1: