12-4 with Romo?

[Pessimist_cowboy]

An elite QB? lol.. please.

Lol @ you , romo is playing another 3-4 years and we will win a Super Bowl and he will make the hall of fame. BTW I ignored you years ago . You're still here ? Why are you even a fan! Back on iggy you go !

 

[Miller]

I didn't say every year was different -- you did. I said every team changes over time. Since the 8-8 seasons, our defense and running game have improved. How do you come to this conclusion that our defense, our OL, and our running game were "nowhere near the same?"

Again, you are harping on 11-13 only when in reality we are talking the improvement from those years to 2014 and then the dropoff this year. That's where people need to concentrate and why I brought up this year compared to 11-13. They are comparable as far as Romo and being 8-8 because we aren't playing at a 12-4, 2014 standard anymore. If the O-line, Running Game and D were still 2014 level and we lost all these games with Romo while everything stayed the same, then your points might make sense. But Our O-line had issues all year. Inconsistent was the issue. I don't care if on paper they added Collins, etc, they didn't play as well this year and they even admitted it. The run blocking was subpar to start the year and the pass protection had some major breakdowns. There have been countless articles about this and even discussions on whether losing Callahan was factor. There was a reason why we were less efficient in 3rd and 1 situations this year and why we refused to run in those situations. Oline and Murray. The D lost one of its pure playmakers in Scandrick and our running game lost the #1 runner in the league, who was also a leader and a guy who could make a lot of yards post contact, etc. Romo had issues game 1 and Giants handed us the game. He had issues in Game 2 when the offense was breaking down. He was subpar in Miami but it was Miami so we won. He was horrible against Carolina. So people need to stop acting like a full year of Romo sans Dez for a lot of games and with a middle of the pack rushing attack, etc would all of a sudden post 7-8 more victories when there were issues...no matter the strides in 2014. We stepped back. Romo is great but the team wasn't on the trend upward this year. We got lazy, thought we had the "secret sauce" and it hurt us.

 

[ufcrules1]

Lol @ you , romo is playing another 3-4 years and we will win a Super Bowl and he will make the hall of fame. BTW I ignored you years ago . You're still here ? Why are you even a fan! Back on iggy you go !

lol... Thank you for putting me on ignore. Never take me off.....please.

 

[CowboyGil]

Well, the Skins won the East at 9-7, so who's to say we couldn't have?

 

[percyhoward]

There have been countless articles....

Good gravy.

 

[erod]

Dallas is 16-5 with Romo since last year, for what it's worth.

 

[Miller]

Well, the Skins won the East at 9-7, so who's to say we couldn't have?

That was my thought...8-8...chance at 9-7 and division without a doubt...not 10, 11 or 12 wins in my book

 

[dallasdave]

With Romo the Boys win the division hands down !!!!!!!

 

[Stash]

Not sure that high but dallas would've made the playoffs. But we wouldn't have made a run at the sb or anything.

I think you've given the best, most balanced take on this topic. And in only the second post no less!

Kudos!

 

[percyhoward]

average gain (opponent)
run
2014: 4.2 yards
2015: 4.2 yards

pass
2014: 6.9 yards
2015: 6.8 yards

average gain (Cowboys)
run
2014: 4.6 yards
2015: 4.6 yards

pass
2014: 7.5 yards
2015: 6.2 yards

 

[Miller]

average gain (opponent)
run
2014: 4.2 yards
2015: 4.2 yards

pass
2014: 6.9 yards
2015: 6.8 yards

average gain (Cowboys)
run
2014: 4.6 yards
2015: 4.6 yards

pass
2014: 7.5 yards
2015: 6.2 yards

Glad you are all about being straight forward and just posting basics and thinking it means something but it doesn't. These don't show the inconsistencies at all. Especially since our D had the lowest number of takeaways in the history of the league...despite being so improved as you said. And to show you how useless these stats are without perspective, the 2013 team that people here are saying wasn't half as good at 8-8 with Romo had

average gain (opponent)
run
2013: 4.7 yards
2014: 4.2 yards
2015: 4.2 yards

pass
2013: 7.0 yards
2014: 6.9 yards
2015: 6.8 yards

average gain (Cowboys)
run
2013: 4.5 yards
2014: 4.6 yards
2015: 4.6 yards

pass
2013: 6.4 yards
2014: 7.5 yards
2015: 6.2 yards [/quote]

So again, Romo had Murray have a record year and thus a total of 2354 rushing yards while this year we had 1888. So do those averages mean much? No but the total does. It means that Romo had his best year with Murray rushing more and Romo having to throw less for a better average. We were rushing in 2013 just as well if you believe basic averages per rush and were 8-8. So you can have similar averages in these categories and win less with same QB if the formula isn't right.


This is from Sturm post Atlanta game. Examples with film in the article

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d.../29/sturm-decoding-linehan-offensive-line-let

They called 5 run plays in the 2nd half and totaled negative-four yards. Horrendous.

And the simple reality is this - through 3 weeks, the offensive line has not played to its abilities.

https://www.football.com/en-us/is-the-cowboys-offensive-line-overrated/

OK, maybe the most overrated line in NFL history is a bit harsh, but the 2015 blocking unit of the Dallas Cowboys is definitely not living up to their preseason billing as potentially one of the best ever. Going into Week 14, the Cowboy’s vaunted line has given up 25 sacks, which places them at 15th in the NFL. Their run blocking hasn’t been much better either, where they rank at 13th overall in total yards with 1,365. Their yards per attempt is slightly better, but still not top 10, ranking 11th with a 4.2 yards per carry. Also, they have been much worse of late, with featured back Darren McFadden only averaging a pedestrian 3.2 yards per carry over the past month. To boot, they have also been one of the most ineffective teams in the league on third-and-short. For proof, look no further than Monday night’s game against the Washington Commanders, where twice McFadden was stopped in the backfield for a loss on third-and-one.

While the players haven’t necessarily been awful, they have been inconsistent on the season. Tyron Smith, considered by many to be the best left tackle in the NFL, has given up five sacks on the season after giving up only 4.5 in 2013 and 2014 combined. Against Philadelphia in Week 9, Smith had perhaps his worst game in his young career, surrendering two sacks to Brandon Graham and looked uncomfortable for most of the night.

http://thelandryhat.com/2015/11/28/dallas-cowboys-offensive-line-not-best-2015/

 

[percyhoward]

Our D had the lowest number of takeaways in the history of the league...

In 2014, we played 12 games against teams that were in the bottom 10 or tied for the bottom 10 in fewest turnovers. That's 12 games out of 16 against turnover-prone teams. This year we had 4 games. The schedule matters.

The "average gain" numbers I posted were to show the stark contrast between the 2014 pass offense and 2015 pass offense, and the fact that the rest of the team was virtually unchanged. I used average gain because it's a stat that applies to both passing and rushing. I could have easily mixed in passer rating. Defensively, we dropped 7 spots, while offensively we dropped 29. You can't ignore that unevenness. We could go further into those numbers if you like (the 19 TD allowed this year as opposed to 33 in 2013, etc.). I don't think you'll like what we find.

In any case, a Sturm article from week 3 doesn't convince anybody that the OL was "nowhere near" what it was in 2014, and that 5-week old article by the other guy is so lazily written it treats all sacks and hits as if the OL were to blame. He probably isn't even aware that sacks, hits, and hurries are charted so specifically that there are records of who's responsible for every one of them. This year, Dallas' offensive line allowed 109 total pressures (sacks, hits, and hurries) which was by far the fewest in the league.

As for the running game, you said the averages (same in both years) don't mean anything, but the total does. Think about that. The only reason our rushing yardage total wasn't exactly the same was because we ran the ball 100 fewer times. Last year, we ran 132 times in the 4th quarter.. This year, we only ran 81 times in the 4th quarter, because we were trying to play catch up. Give this running game that QB and those 4th-quarter leads.

But the fact that we averaged 4.6 ypc, same as last year, with no passing threat to speak of, should tell you all you need to know about this OL.

 

[Miller]

In 2014, we played 12 games against teams that were in the bottom 10 or tied for the bottom 10 in fewest turnovers. That's 12 games out of 16 against turnover-prone teams. This year we had 4 games. The schedule matters.

The "average gain" numbers I posted were to show the stark contrast between the 2014 pass offense and 2015 pass offense, and the fact that the rest of the team was virtually unchanged. I used average gain because it's a stat that applies to both passing and rushing. I could have easily mixed in passer rating. Defensively, we dropped 7 spots, while offensively we dropped 29. You can't ignore that unevenness. We could go further into those numbers if you like (the 19 TD allowed this year as opposed to 33 in 2013, etc.). I don't think you'll like what we find.

In any case, a Sturm article from week 3 doesn't convince anybody that the OL was "nowhere near" what it was in 2014, and that 5-week old article by the other guy is so lazily written it treats all sacks and hits as if the OL were to blame. He probably isn't even aware that sacks, hits, and hurries are charted so specifically that there are records of who's responsible for every one of them. This year, Dallas' offensive line allowed 109 total pressures (sacks, hits, and hurries) which was by far the fewest in the league.

As for the running game, you said the averages (same in both years) don't mean anything, but the total does. Think about that. The only reason our rushing yardage total wasn't exactly the same was because we ran the ball 100 fewer times. Last year, we ran 132 times in the 4th quarter.. This year, we only ran 81 times in the 4th quarter, because we were trying to play catch up. Give this running game that QB and those 4th-quarter leads.

But the fact that we averaged 4.6 ypc, same as last year, with no passing threat to speak of, should tell you all you need to know about this OL.

And the fact that in 2013 when we were 8-8 was close to the same should show how much it means. In fact I remember fans being upset that we had Romo throw too much that year vs running with the average. Listen, I appreciate the fun debate. Your respectful and actually talk football and facts...rare at time around here. But the way we see the team this year and how it would affect Romo aren't going to change. I don't think the Oline or our game planning was anywhere near the same. So I'll agree to disagree here instead of repeating the same stance. Thanks for the good back and forth. My favorite part of the board.

 

[percyhoward]

And the fact that in 2013 when we were 8-8 was close to the same should show how much it means. In fact I remember fans being upset that we had Romo throw too much that year vs running with the average. Listen, I appreciate the fun debate. Your respectful and actually talk football and facts...rare at time around here. But the way we see the team this year and how it would affect Romo aren't going to change. I don't think the Oline or our game planning was anywhere near the same. So I'll agree to disagree here instead of repeating the same stance. Thanks for the good back and forth. My favorite part of the board.

I appreciate your civility too.

Like I said, I don't think you want to dig much deeper into the numbers, because they show that the 2013 team was not close to the same as 2014, outside of the passing game. Whether the running game had the potential to be more of a factor in 2013 is up for debate, but the fact remains that it wasn't. 2013 was clearly a different team from what we've seen in the two seasons since, both defensively and with regard to the running game..

Total Yardage Distribution
2013: pass 72.4% run 27.6%
2014: pass 61.6% run 38.4%
2015: pass 64.8% run 35.2%

Defense -- Points Allowed per Drive (NFL rank)
2013: 30th
2014: 16th
2015: 17th


To give an example of how different parts of a football team influence each other's performance, compare 2015 to 2014, looking at the games in which Dallas had a 10+ point lead in the 4th quarter.

takeaways by Dallas defense
2014: 30
2015: 11

2014: 10+ point lead on 54.8% of all 4th-quarter plays, 9 takeaways
2015: 10+ point lead on 9.2% of all 4th-quarter plays, 2 takeaways

Now switch the seasons, giving the 2015 defense a 10+ point 4th-quarter lead 54.8% of the time, and the 2014 defense 9.2% of the time.

takeaways by Dallas defense (adjusted)
2014: 23
2015: 18

And remember, that's even with a 2015 schedule that included far, far fewer turnover-prone opponents.

 

[CCBoy]

Again, you are harping on 11-13 only when in reality we are talking the improvement from those years to 2014 and then the dropoff this year. That's where people need to concentrate and why I brought up this year compared to 11-13. They are comparable as far as Romo and being 8-8 because we aren't playing at a 12-4, 2014 standard anymore. If the O-line, Running Game and D were still 2014 level and we lost all these games with Romo while everything stayed the same, then your points might make sense. But Our O-line had issues all year. Inconsistent was the issue. I don't care if on paper they added Collins, etc, they didn't play as well this year and they even admitted it. The run blocking was subpar to start the year and the pass protection had some major breakdowns. There have been countless articles about this and even discussions on whether losing Callahan was factor. There was a reason why we were less efficient in 3rd and 1 situations this year and why we refused to run in those situations. Oline and Murray. The D lost one of its pure playmakers in Scandrick and our running game lost the #1 runner in the league, who was also a leader and a guy who could make a lot of yards post contact, etc. Romo had issues game 1 and Giants handed us the game. He had issues in Game 2 when the offense was breaking down. He was subpar in Miami but it was Miami so we won. He was horrible against Carolina. So people need to stop acting like a full year of Romo sans Dez for a lot of games and with a middle of the pack rushing attack, etc would all of a sudden post 7-8 more victories when there were issues...no matter the strides in 2014. We stepped back. Romo is great but the team wasn't on the trend upward this year. We got lazy, thought we had the "secret sauce" and it hurt us.

So, do you feel that the addition of the top WR in 1st and the top RB at the top of round 2 would do the trick?

 

[CCBoy]

Glad you are all about being straight forward and just posting basics and thinking it means something but it doesn't. These don't show the inconsistencies at all. Especially since our D had the lowest number of takeaways in the history of the league...despite being so improved as you said. And to show you how useless these stats are without perspective, the 2013 team that people here are saying wasn't half as good at 8-8 with Romo had

average gain (opponent)
run
2013: 4.7 yards
2014: 4.2 yards
2015: 4.2 yards

pass
2013: 7.0 yards
2014: 6.9 yards
2015: 6.8 yards

average gain (Cowboys)
run
2013: 4.5 yards
2014: 4.6 yards
2015: 4.6 yards

pass
2013: 6.4 yards
2014: 7.5 yards
2015: 6.2 yards

So again, Romo had Murray have a record year and thus a total of 2354 rushing yards while this year we had 1888. So do those averages mean much? No but the total does. It means that Romo had his best year with Murray rushing more and Romo having to throw less for a better average. We were rushing in 2013 just as well if you believe basic averages per rush and were 8-8. So you can have similar averages in these categories and win less with same QB if the formula isn't right.


This is from Sturm post Atlanta game. Examples with film in the article

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d.../29/sturm-decoding-linehan-offensive-line-let

They called 5 run plays in the 2nd half and totaled negative-four yards. Horrendous.

And the simple reality is this - through 3 weeks, the offensive line has not played to its abilities.

https://www.football.com/en-us/is-the-cowboys-offensive-line-overrated/

OK, maybe the most overrated line in NFL history is a bit harsh, but the 2015 blocking unit of the Dallas Cowboys is definitely not living up to their preseason billing as potentially one of the best ever. Going into Week 14, the Cowboy’s vaunted line has given up 25 sacks, which places them at 15th in the NFL. Their run blocking hasn’t been much better either, where they rank at 13th overall in total yards with 1,365. Their yards per attempt is slightly better, but still not top 10, ranking 11th with a 4.2 yards per carry. Also, they have been much worse of late, with featured back Darren McFadden only averaging a pedestrian 3.2 yards per carry over the past month. To boot, they have also been one of the most ineffective teams in the league on third-and-short. For proof, look no further than Monday night’s game against the Washington Commanders, where twice McFadden was stopped in the backfield for a loss on third-and-one.

While the players haven’t necessarily been awful, they have been inconsistent on the season. Tyron Smith, considered by many to be the best left tackle in the NFL, has given up five sacks on the season after giving up only 4.5 in 2013 and 2014 combined. Against Philadelphia in Week 9, Smith had perhaps his worst game in his young career, surrendering two sacks to Brandon Graham and looked uncomfortable for most of the night.

http://thelandryhat.com/2015/11/28/dallas-cowboys-offensive-line-not-best-2015/

[/quote]







Use first and third person in making a case. Using second person, (you), doesn't add to credability of points taken in opposition. Period.

Now, what does inability to close the deal in the 4th quarters, when tied or ahead in a huge number of games, actually denote the Dallas Cowboys not having both Tony Romo and Dez Bryant for those 4th quarters?

 

[CCBoy]

Good gravy.

I'll take that good gravy on my breakfast biscuits...

 

[KB1122]

This team would have been really good with 2014 Romo in there. That's why people should see through the negativity going on around here and keep their eyes downfield.

 

[Miller]

So, do you feel that the addition of the top WR in 1st and the top RB at the top of round 2 would do the trick?

I don't believe that with managements comments on Romo..he's got 4 years.. that we are going QB in first. They want impact now. So I definitely think that RB is in play if their board shows one that high. Would not surprise me if they also considered WR who is top athlete. I believe the formula in 2014 worked and helped the team, obviously, on offense, in short yardage and in keeping D fresh. With that said, I believe there may be more high impact WRs in this draft than RB. We will see who comes out.

 

[bigdnlaca]

I could see a 9 or 10 win team only because the defense was playing well in the first half of most of the games. I have a feeling that w/ Romo, the Cowboys could have scored points in the first half, which will make the defense better in the 2nd half due to the opposing team offense being more predictable on offense.

ATL, NO, TB, Jets, BUF are just a sample of teams where the defense did ok in the first half but because the offense failed to score, those teams still kept their balance attack until the end of the game.