12-4 with Romo?

[JoeBoBBY]

Yup, so many problems. Deep rooted. right. But basically the same 50 other guys and coaches that just went 12-4. Maybe, just maybe it's losing your franchise QB and #1 WR to start.

Just like a team like the Colts who without Manning went belly up. 11 wins to nothing. All because of 1 player. It can happen. How far do any of the top 5 teams go without their Franchise? really.

Domino effect. Romo goes down. Teams stack the line since your backup has shown he is either unwilling or unable to attack a defense vertically. Offense is stagnant, 3 and out a lot. Defense is good early but starts to decline as game and minutes or plays increase. People start to question everything. Personnel, coaching, ownership. And my favorite of the games they did win. "aren't winning by enough" comments.

Fair enough and I agree. But I will say.............. How far have we gone With our franchise QB?

 

[JoeBoBBY]

This team would have been really good with 2014 Romo in there. That's why people should see through the negativity going on around here and keep their eyes downfield.

My eyes have been stairing downfield for two decades.................I keep looking............. ----- nuttin.

 

[Killerinstinct]

12-4 doesn't look realistic to me even if Romo is healthy all year. As it stands we could lose 3 DE's to FA. We will need 2 CB's and a SS to shore up the secondary. The linebacking corp is in serious need of revamping. Right now we have half of 1 solid LB. Lee is awesome but misses a lot of time. If Leary and Bernie walk we need backup Guard AND Center. We still need an upgrade at DT. We have a RB that had a good year but rarely makes it through a whole year injury free. As it stands right now Swaim is our backup TE. We could definitely use an upgrade at WR. And despite all of these gaping holes in the line up we might end up using the highest draft pick in 25 years to draft a QB. Judging by the way this team ordinarily operates we will sign a few of our own FA's and bring in a couple of other stop gap FA's. We will probably only hit on one starting caliber player in the draft if we use the 1st rd pick on a QB. 3rd and 4th round picks rarely make an immediate impact around here. Not seeing 12-4 as realistic but would love to be proven wrong.

 

[dfense]

Fair enough and I agree. But I will say.............. How far have we gone With our franchise QB?

Well, a possible dropped pass from the NFC Championship last year.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

Well, a possible dropped pass from the NFC Championship last year.

I think most would expect more from a franchise QB.

 

[BlindFaith]

I don't understand why people fail to see that this defense and running game is better than what we had those seasons. The defense is better overall than what we had last year (although last year's was obviously better at getting turnover, which is a difference discussion), while the running game is at least as good as what we had two years ago.

Now again, I don't know how much the absence of Dez would have affected a Romo-led offense, but we have to also realize that the East is worse this year than it was last year. With Romo, we would have been able to sweep the East this year.

Defense is not better than last year. Its really about the same. The only reason it didn't get exposed even more is that other teams knew they didn't have to even try with how inept our offense was.

Aikman Defense Ratings Through Week 17, 2015
17...........67.0
NFL Average..68.8

Football Outsiders DEFENSE EFFICIENCY RATINGS
Overall....Rush.....Pass
..19........29.......6..

The Cowboys were 19th in yards against per passing attempt on defense. And that was without opposing offenses even really having to push the ball downfield.
They were 26th in yards after catch given up.
They were 21st in sacks per passing attempt.

They were 20th in yards per rushing attempt.
They were 26th in giving up big rushing plays.

The defense as a whole was 19th as well in overall yards per play even though they were 8th lowest in plays against.
They were 22nd in Opp Scoring Efficiency percentage
They were 15th in third down efficiency percentage
They were 16th in points per game.

 

[percyhoward]

I think most would expect more from a franchise QB.

There's a limit even to what a very good QB can accomplish. I went back to 1970 and looked at teams with similar make ups to that of the Cowboys from 2011-13.

The specific parameters were
for the QB:
Top 10 in passer rating and touchdowns

for the defense:
Bottom 10 in pass rating

for running game:
Bottom 10 in rushing attempts
rush TD below league average (any running game with a top 10 QB should be at least average in the red zone)

The first ranking is defensive pass rating, followed by rushing attempts and rushing TD, then the QB's rank in pass rating that season.

These are all top 10 QB.

1973 Phi def 25th, rush (att 24th, TD 20th) Gabriel 5th 5-8-1
1980 NO def 27th, rush (att 28th, TD 25th) A. Manning 8th 1-15
1982 SF def 22nd, rush (att 27th, TD 17th) Montana 5th 3-6
1983 GB def 21st, rush (att 23rd, TD 17th) Dickey 8th 8-8
1986 Buf def 23rd, rush (att 25th, TD 23rd) Kelly 8th 4-12
1986 Mia def 26th, rush (att 31st, TD 23rd) Marino 2nd 8-8
1988 Mia def 23rd, rush (att 28th, TD 19th) Marino 10th 6-10
1991 Mia def 24th, rush (att 25th, TD 22nd) Marino 7th 8-8
1993 Atl def 28th, rush (att 26th, TD 26th) Hebert 10th 6-10
1994 Atl def 21st, rush (att 28th, TD 22nd) George 9th 7-9
1994 NO def 26th, rush (att 27th, TD 17th) Everett 5th 7-9
1996 Bal def 28th, rush (att 24th, TD 16th) Testaverde 5th 4-12
2004 Min def 28th, rush (att 28th, TD 29th) Culpepper 2nd 8-8
2011 Dal def 25th, rush (att 24th, TD 30th) Romo 4th 8-8
2012 NO def 28th, rush (att 29th, TD 21st) Brees 8th 7-9
2012 Dal def 29th, rush (att 31st, TD 27th) Romo 10th 8-8
2013 Dal def 26th, rush (att 31st, TD 18th), Romo 8th 8-8
2015 Det def 28th, rush (att 30th, TD 24th), Stafford 9th 7-9

A lot of bad defenses and unproductive running games there, and no winning records to be found.

In 2012, the Cowboys became the first team with these kinds of numbers in consecutive seasons. In 2013, they became the first team with these kinds of numbers three years in a row.

Marino and Romo are the only QB to have played on this kind of team more than once.

 

[percyhoward]

Defense is not better than last year. It's really about the same..

It really is.

Defense -- Points Allowed per Drive (NFL rank)
2013: 30th
2014: 16th
2015: 17th

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

It really is.

Defense -- Points Allowed per Drive (NFL rank)
2013: 30th
2014: 16th
2015: 17th

And that's with one of the worse offenses in the league. The defense still kept us in so many games this season.

 

[dfense]

I think most would expect more from a franchise QB.

Like what? He put the ball where its suppose to be caught.

 

[ufcrules1]

Well, a possible dropped pass from the NFC Championship last year.

That is as far as he has led the team is whole career. 2 playoff wins is all he could muster up? Also, he didn't do anything overly impressive in the GB game to lead his team to victory. Romo will end his career with being known as a QB that played well under his regular season averages in the most important games.. win and in/playoff games. Go compare those stats with his regular season stats.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Wait, wut???

Less injured? Let me remind you that the 2013 team had TWENTY-TWO DIFFERENT PLAYERS start at least one game on the defensive line alone, due to injuries. That same team lost each of its starting LBers for five games (Lee and Durant missed six), including two where all three were out.

Better all-around teams is even more laughable. The defensive front seven is much better now than what we had in '11-13. The OL has added Frederick, Martin, and Collins since then.

I said for years that those 8-8 teams - especially the ones in 2011 and 2013, had no business winning more than 5 games. It was an outstanding feat by Romo that kept them from being 5-11.

Post of the day.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

There's a limit even to what a very good QB can accomplish. I went back to 1970 and looked at teams with similar make ups to that of the Cowboys from 2011-13.

The specific parameters were
for the QB:
Top 10 in passer rating and touchdowns

for the defense:
Bottom 10 in pass rating

for running game:
Bottom 10 in rushing attempts
rush TD below league average (any running game with a top 10 QB should be at least average in the red zone)

The first ranking is defensive pass rating, followed by rushing attempts and rushing TD, then the QB's rank in pass rating that season.

These are all top 10 QB.

1973 Phi def 25th, rush (att 24th, TD 20th) Gabriel 5th 5-8-1
1980 NO def 27th, rush (att 28th, TD 25th) A. Manning 8th 1-15
1982 SF def 22nd, rush (att 27th, TD 17th) Montana 5th 3-6
1983 GB def 21st, rush (att 23rd, TD 17th) Dickey 8th 8-8
1986 Buf def 23rd, rush (att 25th, TD 23rd) Kelly 8th 4-12
1986 Mia def 26th, rush (att 31st, TD 23rd) Marino 2nd 8-8
1988 Mia def 23rd, rush (att 28th, TD 19th) Marino 10th 6-10
1991 Mia def 24th, rush (att 25th, TD 22nd) Marino 7th 8-8
1993 Atl def 28th, rush (att 26th, TD 26th) Hebert 10th 6-10
1994 Atl def 21st, rush (att 28th, TD 22nd) George 9th 7-9
1994 NO def 26th, rush (att 27th, TD 17th) Everett 5th 7-9
1996 Bal def 28th, rush (att 24th, TD 16th) Testaverde 5th 4-12
2004 Min def 28th, rush (att 28th, TD 29th) Culpepper 2nd 8-8
2011 Dal def 25th, rush (att 24th, TD 30th) Romo 4th 8-8
2012 NO def 28th, rush (att 29th, TD 21st) Brees 8th 7-9
2012 Dal def 29th, rush (att 31st, TD 27th) Romo 10th 8-8
2013 Dal def 26th, rush (att 31st, TD 18th), Romo 8th 8-8
2015 Det def 28th, rush (att 30th, TD 24th), Stafford 9th 7-9

A lot of bad defenses and unproductive running games there, and no winning records to be found.

In 2012, the Cowboys became the first team with these kinds of numbers in consecutive seasons. In 2013, they became the first team with these kinds of numbers three years in a row.

Marino and Romo are the only QB to have played on this kind of team more than once.

Thats impressive; really. Those stats are fun to look at.

And I know Ive seen Romo go through some bad defenses, etc etc.... some bad luck, injuries. Winning in the NFL isnt an exact science... Its hard, lots of luck, etc etc. But you either win or you dont. Unfortunately, Romo hasnt been able to accomplish winning at a high level. He just cant get the team and players and structure around him to allow him to be successfull. There is no doubt he is a great QB. But, he has become bigger then the Cowboys. He is the franchise. So, the franchise that he leads, has failed. --- Its on him too.............He has been a part of this enterprise/project/effort. So far, he just doesnt have "it".


He has 2, maybe 3 years. I'll be rooting for him, but I expect more of the same to be honest. I am sure the 4th pick will be pimped as the last piece we need, and assigned with making the Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl contenders...

 

[dfense]

That is as far as he has led the team is whole career. 2 playoff wins is all he could muster up? Also, he didn't do anything overly impressive in the GB game to lead his team to victory. Romo will end his career with being known as a QB that played well under his regular season averages in the most important games.. win and in/playoff games. Go compare those stats with his regular season stats.

Go look back on his career year after year. Dallas had some really suck teams who barely got to playoff level. For years the defense would let them down. For years they didn't have a running game. Dallas didn't lose the Giants game in 07 because of Romo. He dropped a perfect pass to Crayton who dropped a probable TD. Garrett took over and they had to completely rebuild the offensive line. Romo, though by no means perfect, has been the most stable force on this team for years. And for a few years he carried them.

Just look at Green Bay right now. They are the 2008-2013 Cowboys in a lot of ways. They're defense is just eh, receivers just eh, running game eh, and it's all on the Superstar Rogers who is looking pretty average right now. I've seen him throw picks in the end zone a couple times this year to lose games because like Romo for years, tried to do too much.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

Like what? He put the ball where its suppose to be caught.

How about win more then 2 playoff games in a decade? (over the eagles/lions) Maybe an NFCCG appearance? I would also like to point out, yeah Romo has had some bad luck, but ......playing in that NFCE. That should have been some good luck. The NFCE has been horrible!! The only reason we "seem to be in the playoff hunt", is becuase the division sucks. And we cant make it happen in this division? Aye yah yah....

 

[Kevinicus]

That is as far as he has led the team is whole career. 2 playoff wins is all he could muster up? Also, he didn't do anything overly impressive in the GB game to lead his team to victory. Romo will end his career with being known as a QB that played well under his regular season averages in the most important games.. win and in/playoff games. Go compare those stats with his regular season stats.

143 QB rating. Only 4 incompletions (really only 3 if not for the BS). 2 TD's, 0 INTs. Yup, nothing special at all in that GB game.

Career numbers Regular Season : 65.3%, 5.7% TD, 2.7% INT, 7.8 YPA, 2.1:1 TD/INT ratio - 97.1 rating
Playoff Numbers: 61.6%, 4.3% TD, 1.1% INT, 7.5 YPA, 4:1 TD/INT ratio, 93 rating.
2014 Playoff Numbers: 68%, 8% TD, 0% INT, 11.3 YPA, 4:0 TD/INT, 125.7 rating.

Overall his playoff numbers aren't far off, and in some areas he is better. In 2014, he was the best QB in the playoffs, just as he was during the regular season.

 

[Alexander]

And that's with one of the worse offenses in the league. The defense still kept us in so many games this season.

They just didn't do it colorfully enough for those who think simply that they should have stepped up and just took up the slack.

 

[KJJ]

It really is.

Defense -- Points Allowed per Drive (NFL rank)
2013: 30th
2014: 16th
2015: 17th

See if you can find a stat for giving up points in the 4th quarter/OT when games are on the line. The big problem with this defense is not being able to force turnovers and make critical stops when games are on the line.

 

[percyhoward]

See if you can find a stat for giving up points in the 4th quarter/OT when games are on the line.

Here's points allowed by the defense broken down by quarter, if that helps.

1st
2014: 62
2015: 63
2nd
2014: 85
2015: 86
3rd
2014: 58
2015: 56
4th / OT
2014: 123
2015: 132

Of course the reason the games were "on the line" in the 4th quarter was usually that our offense couldn't score. It's basically the same defensive performance as last year's, minus the takeaways that were caused by a schedule full of turnover-prone teams and a lot of double-digit Cowboy leads in 2014.

 

[percyhoward]

He is the franchise. So, the franchise that he leads, has failed.

Nice wordplay.