1st and 5 or 2nd and 2

[charron]

It was an automatic 1st down penalty - 1st and 10

then i retract my original statement. automatic 1st down should always be the choice. Wonder if he thought it was a 5 yard penalty?

 

[aikemirv]

then i retract my original statement. automatic 1st down should always be the choice. Wonder if he thought it was a 5 yard penalty?

I would say that the odds of converting a 2nd and 2 are much higher than a 1st and 10. Then I get an extra down and I gained 3 yards. Not only that but it puts the D in a tougher position with 55 seconds to go.

I think 2nd and 2 is the right decision

 

[bigdnlaca]

Another MM decision some don’t like but then can’t get the facts straight.
First off it wasn’t going to be 1st and 5, it would have been 1st and 10 because it wasn’t a pre snap penalty.

Reasons why he turned it down:
1. The odds are slim that the team would get 8 yards or better on the next play. So if you got 3 yards the next play on 1st down, we’re you better off? Nope
2. The odds are great that they can get two yards on 3 plays and then get a whole new set of downs.
3. Need the yards to get close for kicker.

 

[speedkilz88]

then i retract my original statement. automatic 1st down should always be the choice. Wonder if he thought it was a 5 yard penalty?

He didn't want to give up yards when a fg was most likely. Time made the first down less important than the yards.

 

[bigdnlaca]

Wasnt it a 5 yard penalty? I was thinking thats why he turned it down

If it was 1st and 5, he would have accepted.
At that time of the game, you need yards and better odds to get more plays from offense. Making it 1st and 10, just gave Cowboys only at least 4 plays.
With him getting 8 yards on that play, he only need 2 yards from 3 plays and then get 4 more plays after conversion. Max 7 plays to get 12 yards is better than max 4 plays to get 10.

 

[aikemirv]

If it was 1st and 5, he would have accepted.
At that time of the game, you need yards and better odds to get more plays from offense. Making it 1st and 10, just gave Cowboys only at least 4 plays.
With him getting 8 yards on that play, he only need 2 yards from 3 plays and then get 4 more plays after conversion. Max 7 plays to get 12 yards is better than max 4 plays to get 10.

Yep - there's a statistical formula here but I don't know it!

 

[bigdnlaca]

Yep - there's a statistical formula here but I don't know it!

Formula

1st and 10 = 2.5 yards avg for first down

2nd and 2 = .75 yards avg per play. That is like two qb sneaks. If Cowboys butchered that, McC deserves to be fired.

 

[Dre11]

Do y’all remember that scenario after there was a defensive holding call. We got an 8 yard play and I thought we would still accept the penalty to stay at first down but MM chose to decline it to make it 2nd and 2.

Was I the only one that would rather have the extra down rather than the two yards?

I didn’t like mm’s decision on that one even though it didn’t really matter in the long run.

Why does it matter, it worked out, the idea was to get as many yards as possible to shorten the fg. You take the yards. Picking up 2nd 2 or 1st and 5 about the same

 

[CowboyChris]

Why are you guys blaming MM? It's Jerry who phones down to the coaches and makes the decisions

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

If it's that close you always take the down.

 

[Typhus]

Do y’all remember that scenario after there was a defensive holding call. We got an 8 yard play and I thought we would still accept the penalty to stay at first down but MM chose to decline it to make it 2nd and 2.

Was I the only one that would rather have the extra down rather than the two yards?

I didn’t like mm’s decision on that one even though it didn’t really matter in the long run.

I was raising the ole eyebrow as well, I thought initially that the ref made a mistake in translation.

 

[erod]

Was I the only one puzzled by how passively Pollard ran on the play that setup the FG? Why wouldn't you stick your head in there and try to get 1-2 yards closer for the kicker.. He seemed awfully content to take the loss/no gain and kick the ball. Could that have been what he was instructed to do? "Don't fight for any yards if it gets sniffed out, just go down and don't fumble.." Maybe.. I guess I could see that.. But I didn't like it at the time. Until they said it was a 50 yards.. and we know Maher is money from beyond 50.. LOL!

The bigger issue was Rush calling the time out instead of just spiking it. That was his brain dead play of the game.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Wasnt it a 5 yard penalty? I was thinking thats why he turned it down

5 yard d holding which is a first down

 

[plymkr]

Those 3 yards may have been the difference in the FG - I think it would hit the post 3 yards back! I have looked at that FG multiple times and I still don't see it go inside the uprights - My eyes are failing me!

You're right. Well I had the same view. When he kicked it I threw a pillow in anger and said "and then he misses it". Then the ref signals good and I started jumping up and down. But I thought he missed it too. I've watched it several times and it still looks like a miss. Must be a funky camera angle.

 

[plymkr]

Was I the only one puzzled by how passively Pollard ran on the play that setup the FG? Why wouldn't you stick your head in there and try to get 1-2 yards closer for the kicker.. He seemed awfully content to take the loss/no gain and kick the ball. Could that have been what he was instructed to do? "Don't fight for any yards if it gets sniffed out, just go down and don't fumble.." Maybe.. I guess I could see that.. But I didn't like it at the time. Until they said it was a 50 yards.. and we know Maher is money from beyond 50.. LOL!

I noticed that too. He ran very passively, like he was running on glass or something. My guess would be they told him to not lose yards and go down near the left hash. But even then I was thinking why didn't they do a QB sneak to the other hash. O well we won, but that was a weird looking run by Pollard.

 

[aikemirv]

Doesn't NFL 101 say take the extra down, especially under 2 minutes......

In my view though 2nd and 2 is taking the extra down because it is almost automatic. I don't know what the NFL stats are on it but I bet it is high 80%.

 

[RonnieT24]

You're right. Well I had the same view. When he kicked it I threw a pillow in anger and said "and then he misses it". Then the ref signals good and I started jumping up and down. But I thought he missed it too. I've watched it several times and it still looks like a miss. Must be a funky camera angle.

I thought it looked like a miss too so I went back and re-watched it. What throws you off is that the ball passes well ABOVE the top of the posts and you don't really see it on the camera until it comes down into the screen. Maher boomed that thing and it had the distance from 60+. The ref standing under the post saw it cross over .. That's all that matters. It would have been nice if CBS would have given us the goalpost cam view but I guess they didn't have it?

Here is the view that confirms it was good.



People will say it was close to hitting the upright but by the time I got this freeze fram the ball is already several feet beyond the upright. The ball was a good 5-10 feet above the upright when it cleared the crossbar.

 

[plymkr]

I thought it looked like a miss too so I went back and re-watched it. What throws you off is that the ball passes well ABOVE the top of the posts and you don't really see it on the camera until it comes down into the screen. Maher boomed that thing and it had the distance from 60+. The ref standing under the post saw it cross over .. That's all that matters. It would have been nice if CBS would have given us the goalpost cam view but I guess they didn't have it?

Here is the view that confirms it was good.



People will say it was close to hitting the upright but by the time I got this freeze fram the ball is already several feet beyond the upright. The ball was a good 5-10 feet above the upright when it cleared the crossbar.

Ok I see it now. Thanks for the picture. I agree, I wish the goalpost cam could have shown it. I watched it like 10 times and still thought it was a miss. But hey I'm not the ref and we won so I was good. Now I see it.

 

[grgnfg420]

One play later would you rather have 2nd and 5 or 3rd and 2?

2nd and 5

 

[INCowboysFan]

I think it would have been 1st and 10- It was defensive holding wasn't it. That's an automatic 1st down, not a 5 yard penalty

Wise move I think. Pretty much ensures an extra down.

you are correct. It would have been 1st and 10, not 1st and 5.