2009 Draft "Needs" list?

[Manwiththeplan]

These 2nd round picks have started atleast 5 games

Donnie Avery
Brandon Flowers
Curtis Lofton
John Carlson
Tracey Porter
Eddie Royal
Tyrell Johnson
Matt Forte
DeSean Jackson
Mike Pollack

10 out of 32 2nd round picks have started atleast half their teams games, this is why it's unrealistic to expect a 2nd rounder to be a starter from day 1.

As far as how many rookies are too many, we'll just have to disagre.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

BTW, I'd rather move Ratliff to LDE because if we move him to the right side I think he won't be as effective. Michael Strahan was the Giants best pass rusher for years coming from the left side, so we don't have to but Ratliff on the right just because he's our best pass rusher on the line

 

[ThatsmyQB]

These 2nd round picks have started atleast 5 games

Donnie Avery
Brandon Flowers
Curtis Lofton
John Carlson
Tracey Porter
Eddie Royal
Tyrell Johnson
Matt Forte
DeSean Jackson
Mike Pollack

10 out of 32 2nd round picks have started atleast half their teams games, this is why it's unrealistic to expect a 2nd rounder to be a starter from day 1.

As far as how many rookies are too many, we'll just have to disagre.

How is that UNREALISTIC???
10 out of 32 are starting, and the ones startting are cause they have a need at those positions that they filled with their 2nd rounder like Forte and Avery who they drafted in round 2 KNOWING they'd start from day one, where as some of the 2nd round picks they got picked KNOWING they would not start cause the starters were already in place, such as C.B. Patrick Lee by Green Bay whne htey have starters Al Harris and Charles Woodson, so no matter HOW GOOD Lee was, he wasn't gonna start or have a chance to start no matter what.

then factor im Miami Dolphins pick Q.B. Chad Henne who they had Penningotn and knew they would sit him on the bench for a year so that's another guy drafted in round 2 who didn't get drafted to start his 1st year, and then same with Brian Brohme who was drafted in round 2 when they had Rodgers startign at Q.B. and he was drafted to be the backup, so that's yet another 2nd rounder who wasn't drafted to be the starter opening day, then there are W.R.'s, a position that takes awhile to adjust to in the NFL, and you got the Skins who drafted TWO W.R.'s in round 2 and they already had Moss, so that makes one W.R. who wouldn't be able to start no matter how good he was, and then you also got other W.R.'s like Hardy, Simpson, Kelly, etc. where it takes some W.R.'s a coupel years to get adjusted to the NFL, where as some positions like D.T. and D.E., and O-lineman and R.B.'s don't really need to have that big of a learnign curve and can come in ansd start from day 1.

So you say 10 out of 32 2nd rounders are startting, but you can throw out a bunhc of players who had no chance to start as I mentioned and basically unl4ess you have a logjam ahead of you at a certain position or are a Q.B. or W.R., you're probably gonna sit or play sparingly your rookie year, but if you're a D-lineman N.T., O-lineman and the team has a need, you're basically starting from day 1.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

BTW, I'd rather move Ratliff to LDE because if we move him to the right side I think he won't be as effective. Michael Strahan was the Giants best pass rusher for years coming from the left side, so we don't have to but Ratliff on the right just because he's our best pass rusher on the line

But STRAHAN played in the 4-3 and was a great run stopper, you're L.D.E. in a 3-4 is PRIMARILY a run stuffer since teams run predominantly to their right, and your best pass rushing D.E. in the 3-4 (think Bruce Smith) should play R.D.E. for 2 reasons, he doesn't have to worry about the run as much andcan get after the Q.B., and isn't on the T.E.'s side most of the time, and as a better pass rusher, you want him on the BLIND SIDE of the Q.B., so for those reasons, he will move to the R.D.E. spot!

 

[Manwiththeplan]

How is that UNREALISTIC???
10 out of 32 are starting, and the ones startting are cause they have a need at those positions that they filled with their 2nd rounder like Forte and Avery who they drafted in round 2 KNOWING they'd start from day one, where as some of the 2nd round picks they got picked KNOWING they would not start cause the starters were already in place, such as C.B. Patrick Lee by Green Bay whne htey have starters Al Harris and Charles Woodson, so no matter HOW GOOD Lee was, he wasn't gonna start or have a chance to start no matter what.

then factor im Miami Dolphins pick Q.B. Chad Henne who they had Penningotn and knew they would sit him on the bench for a year so that's another guy drafted in round 2 who didn't get drafted to start his 1st year, and then same with Brian Brohme who was drafted in round 2 when they had Rodgers startign at Q.B. and he was drafted to be the backup, so that's yet another 2nd rounder who wasn't drafted to be the starter opening day, then there are W.R.'s, a position that takes awhile to adjust to in the NFL, and you got the Skins who drafted TWO W.R.'s in round 2 and they already had Moss, so that makes one W.R. who wouldn't be able to start no matter how good he was, and then you also got other W.R.'s like Hardy, Simpson, Kelly, etc. where it takes some W.R.'s a coupel years to get adjusted to the NFL, where as some positions like D.T. and D.E., and O-lineman and R.B.'s don't really need to have that big of a learnign curve and can come in ansd start from day 1.

So you say 10 out of 32 2nd rounders are startting, but you can throw out a bunhc of players who had no chance to start as I mentioned and basically unl4ess you have a logjam ahead of you at a certain position or are a Q.B. or W.R., you're probably gonna sit or play sparingly your rookie year, but if you're a D-lineman N.T., O-lineman and the team has a need, you're basically starting from day 1.

Even if you throw out the QBs, you're looking at a 33% chance based on last years results. If you base your decisions on a 33% success rate, then you're doomed for failure. And it's funny you throw out the cliche about WRs taking a while to develop, when 3 out of the ten players on that list where WRs.

And just like you claim most of the guys not starting, aren't because there are good players ahead of them, I can counter with most of the guys starting only start because the team has no other choice, not because of talent. And I think most people will agree that we don't want to be forced to start anyone because we have no other options

 

[Manwiththeplan]

your best pass rushing D.E. in the 3-4 (think Bruce Smith) should play R.D.E. for 2 reasons, he doesn't have to worry about the run as much andcan get after the Q.B., and isn't on the T.E.'s side most of the time, and as a better pass rusher, you want him on the BLIND SIDE of the Q.B., so for those reasons, he will move to the R.D.E. spot!

And teams put their best pass protector on the right side. If we move Canty to the left, there's no garuntee he'll be more effective (not to mention our run d might suffer) and Ratliff may not be as effective either.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Even if you throw out the QBs, you're looking at a 33% chance based on last years results. If you base your decisions on a 33% success rate, then you're doomed for failure. And it's funny you throw out the cliche about WRs taking a while to develop, when 3 out of the ten players on that list where WRs.

And just like you claim most of the guys not starting, aren't because there are good players ahead of them, I can counter with most of the guys starting only start because the team has no other choice, not because of talent. And I think most people will agree that we don't want to be forced to start anyone because we have no other options

 

[ghst187]

1) A speedy LB that is good in coverage, esp the flats and backs out of the backfield
2) An OL or two, prob a T and a guard
3) a small but 4.3-type, precise route-running, good hands WR that can get separation. dont think austin is ever more than a #3 or 4
4) a coverage safety or cb that projects to S

 

[Cherry]

WE need a DE pass rusher.... n i know we have Ware and Spencer.. but wat happen when they go down.. cause we just have run stoppers...

 

[CF74]

You gotta get the best player available at your pick irregardless of needs. Like when you were a kid playing sand lot football, you picked the best guy available with your selection, that's how you won or lost. We can always trade or pick up free agents later on.

What we need in no particular order:

OT
NT
SS/FS
ILB/OLB
QB
FB

Quality depth is paramount as we've discovered this year. Other thoughts are coming to me about the post season I refuse to pen at this point in time...:starspin

 

[ThatsmyQB]

You gotta get the best player available at your pick irregardless of needs. Like when you were a kid playing sand lot football, you picked the best guy available with your selection, that's how you won or lost. :starspin

Well, I don't knwo about you, but if you picked the best Q.b. you'd usually win in sandlot.

So you do have to choose best available at certian positions.

I think what you meant to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, lets just not REACH for any one particular position.

We have enough needs at different positions that we shouldn't have to reach.
We haven't reached in YEARS, and I don't see us doing it this year.
What I think we will be doing is TARGETING 3 players in the early 2nd to late 3rd round and use our other draft picks to maneuver around and get the 3 guys we really want.
I'm hoping for something like this

mid 2nd round trade up: N.T. B.J. Raji

Late 2nd rounder trade up from our early 3rd round spot S.S./F.S. Patrick Chung

late 3rd rounder trade up: D.T. convert to D.E. Vance Walker

We'd really upgrade our D-line with some young talent, Raji would allow us to move Ratliff to D.E., and Walker would give us another D.E. who can get after the Q.B. like Ratliff, and Chung would round out the secondary and pair with Hamlin.

I think that's what we shoudl do, TARGET 3 guys who can come in and help us now and in the future, and then trade up and go get them, and don't wait around and hope they fall, we have enough picks we should be able to manuever around a lot, give me these 3 players, and then go for an O.G./O.T. with our next 2 picks, and then pickup another BIG BODY N.T. type to backup Raji so that if he gets injured we don't have to move Ratliff back to N.T., and this would allow us to get rid of Tank also.

Round it off by trading a lot of late round picks for the 2010 draft one round earlier cause draft picks move up one round in value, meaning if we trade away a 6th rounder,we would get a 5h in 2010 in return, and since we got a lot of late picks, and most won't even make the team anyway, why not restock our 2010 draft with a few extra 5th and 6th rounders so we can manuever a little bitin the 2010 draft as well, something New England always does and seems to be wht we've been doing lately also.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

WE need a DE pass rusher.... n i know we have Ware and Spencer.. but wat happen when they go down.. cause we just have run stoppers...

Well, Spencer and Ware are L.B.'s, NOT D.E.'s.

I agree we need a D.E. pass rusher, but Ratliff is gonna be p-laying D.E. next year, and I'd like to get another D.E. pass rusher, someone liek Vance Johnson in the draft to be his bookend, depending wether we re-sign Canty or not, and we should draft a L.B. pass rush specialist if like you said Ware or Spencer goes down, we'll need another pass rusher.