2011 Packers (15-1) had the worst defense

[CCBoy]

X, I generally have a referenced term of burn barrel buddies...or ring tapers. But point of differentiation is better addressed as you just did. Hoooah!

 

[Doomsday101]

People are emotionally attached to their own perceptions. The offense was not what they wanted; therefore it must be at fault despite rankings.

People wanted the Denver regular season offense, but those are historically rare.

I'm going to guess that the people that keep complaining about the offense have been Romo or Garrett haters in their posting history.

You must be psychic lol. If everyone could get past all the agenda there is enough blame to go around for the Cowboys failure to put the division away when they had multiple chances to do so. There were situation where the offense and Romo could have done more there clearly are many occasions where the defense could have done a lot more. Same for the coaching staff and given the injuries more could have been done by the training staff. One thing that always kills me about this sight is how some want to pin it all on 1 or 2 people

 

[percyhoward]

If only stats told the whole story, Dallas being ranked 4th in points per drive would be the end of the conversation, but we both know there is a lot more to it than that.

Right, so we look deeper and we find out opponent's turnovers didn't affect the ranking. Then we look at strength of schedule and learn that wasn't a factor either. Then we remove every team's best game and the ranking still doesn't change. That's about where the coversation usually ends.

 

[ufcrules1]

Right, so we look deeper and we find out opponent's turnovers didn't affect the ranking. Then we look at strength of schedule and learn that wasn't a factor either. Then we remove every team's best game and the ranking still doesn't change. That's about where the coversation usually ends.

So there you go Percy. You just convinced yourself our offense was absolutely fantastic. You solve every issue with a statistic but in real life it doesn't work that way. They are only part of the story.

 

[CCBoy]

So there you go Percy. You just convinced yourself our offense was absolutely fantastic. You solve every issue with a statistic but in real life it doesn't work that way. They are only part of the story.

Instead of so much energy towards psychoanalysis, perhaps dropping the 2nd person handle would improve a discussion of elements actually being presented.

The presentation of actual facts in counter, are the course...not dumbing attempts at posters that are attempted to be demeaned and brow beat in effect.

That, by nature isn't based even upon countered information, as that isn't being addressed directly...only the person presenting facts for a reasonable, not biased, discussion.

In the quote above, were three straight sentences with you's, and not information in rebuttal. We all understand base concepts.

 

[percyhoward]

So there you go Percy. You just convinced yourself our offense was absolutely fantastic. You solve every issue with a statistic but in real life it doesn't work that way. They are only part of the story.

Those are real plays I'm talking about, of course. If you think the ranking is skewed, you must be able to show how. Otherwise, what is that opinion based on?

 

[TwoDeep3]

The 2011 Packers team that went 15-1 had the 32nd ranked defense in the league.

I found that interesting because there have been some questions about how much the Cowboys offense could carry the team this year if the defense just improved a little.

Cowboys 2013 415.3 yards/game

Packers 2011 411.6 yards/game

What saved the Packers defense was that they were tied for 1st in total takeaways with 38.

In 2013, the Cowboys were tied for 13th with 28 total takeaways.

This discussion assumes one thing equals another in this league.

Chaos theory suggests it doesn't.

 

[TheDude]

Not at all...this is a great reply. I just wish I could do it justice with a longer response. I'm not sure Parcell's adage that 'you are what your record says you are' is all that accurate when it comes to evaluating coaches. Or, rather, I think that's how coaches are hired and fired, but I'm not sure it's the best way to build an organzation. There are a lot of trailing effects in the NFL that aren't necessarily in a coach's control, for example, that have a significant impact on how a team might perform. Players take time to develop--some more than others, for example; contract commitments to prominent players have impacts that last many years; injuries can dramatically affect the trajectory of a star player's development; offensive or defensive fads can dramatically affect a division or a conference for a year or two and then disappear; league rulings can affect a team's cap situation; and sea changes like the new CBA can work out differently than teams project them to initially.
These examples are relevant to the Cowboys, but only because they are nearer and dearer to my heart and so I remember them better. And that's not an argument for Jason Garrett in any way...only an acknowledgement that the job a coach does isn't necessarily best measured in wins and losses. The fact that it's most often measured that way notwithstanding. The reality is that a HC's performance is probably best measured by a combination of qualitative and quantitative factors, with wins being, by far, the most important quantitative measure.

All of these points have merit. What is hard to debate is "the degree." It doesn't help when you have a competitor make one change and all of a sudden production (wins) increases. Because of this coaches get canned because a) the GM worries about his job, 2) the "time" has been enough to lay to rest extenuating factors 3) fan apathy/discontent. Lower attendance, sales, etc plays a role. The only level metric is wins. Maybe 1-2 years isn enough, but if you have someone like Coughlin take an expansion team from nothing to playoffs in 3 years - Jimmy taking a 1-15 team to 9-7, etc. then sometimes excuses beget excuses when you look for reasons.[/quote]

It's a definite grey area - I give you that

And, honestly, thinking about it more, I'm not sure the most statistically-inclined posters actually are Jason Garrett fans. I probably lumped Romo-supporters and Garrett-supporters together in my head since I'm often on those sides in most debates. But I'm not sure, honestly, how much overlap there is in those two groups. Probably not as much as I'd guess.

I see some blanket trends, but even some who REALLY despise Jerry -really like romo. Romo is seperated a little easier from Garrett/Jones org, because you have more empirical evidence - (that said, I wish he would have had Parcells or another QB coach a little longer than the Garrett/WIlson combo so long).

 

[CCBoy]

This discussion assumes one thing equals another in this league.

Chaos theory suggests it doesn't.

Camp town lady sing your song, do dah...do dah. Camp town lady sing your song...all the do dah day. I was stationed in Kentucky for a pretty long period. Loved the Derby at Church Hill Downs. Mint Juleps are tasty.

Harness racing was still going strong when I was there:

And the entire state can sing their State Song: My Old Kentucky Home

Unlike in Texas, were few actually know the State song: Texas O Texas.

 

[CCBoy]

All of these points have merit. What is hard to debate is "the degree." It doesn't help when you have a competitor make one change and all of a sudden production (wins) increases. Because of this coaches get canned because a) the GM worries about his job, 2) the "time" has been enough to lay to rest extenuating factors 3) fan apathy/discontent. Lower attendance, sales, etc plays a role. The only level metric is wins. Maybe 1-2 years isn enough, but if you have someone like Coughlin take an expansion team from nothing to playoffs in 3 years - Jimmy taking a 1-15 team to 9-7, etc. then sometimes excuses beget excuses when you look for reasons.

It's a definite grey area - I give you that



I see some blanket trends, but even some who REALLY despise Jerry -really like romo. Romo is seperated a little easier from Garrett/Jones org, because you have more empirical evidence - (that said, I wish he would have had Parcells or another QB coach a little longer than the Garrett/WIlson combo so long).[/quote]

He did, Wade Phillips...

 

[TwoDeep3]

Camp town lady sing your song, do dah...do dah. Camp town lady sing your song...all the do dah day. I was stationed in Kentucky for a pretty long period. Loved the Derby at Church Hill Downs. Mint Juleps are tasty.

Harness racing was still going strong when I was there:

And the entire state can sing their State Song: My Old Kentucky Home

Unlike in Texas, were few actually know the State song: Texas O Texas.

I always marvel at the synapse I trigger in your mind.

Now follow the bouncing ball...




Actually CC, it's Texas Our Texas.

 

[CCBoy]

I always marvel at the synapse I trigger in your mind.

Now follow the bouncing ball...




Actually CC, it's Texas Our Texas.

Verse 1:

Texas, our Texas! All hail the mighty State!
Texas, our Texas! So wonderful so great!
Boldest and grandest, Withstanding ev'ry test;
O Empire wide and glorious, You stand supremely blest.

Chorus::

God bless you Texas! And keep you brave and strong,
That you may grow in power and worth,
Thro'out the ages long.

Verse 2:

Texas, O Texas! Your freeborn single star,
Sends out its radiance to nations near and far.
Emblem of freedom! It sets our hearts aglow,
With thoughts of San Jacinto and glorious Alamo.

Verse 3:

Texas, dear Texas! From tyrant grip now free,
Shines forth in splendor your star of destiny!
Mother of heroes! We come your children true,
Proclaiming our allegiance, our faith, our love for you.


And ability to keep as you term, synapse, connected but disjointed is a necessity in effective resolution management through crisis.

And the ability to expand that quality into amusement is a side development for cultural worth.

 

[TheDude]

It's a definite grey area - I give you that



I see some blanket trends, but even some who REALLY despise Jerry -really like romo. Romo is seperated a little easier from Garrett/Jones org, because you have more empirical evidence - (that said, I wish he would have had Parcells or another QB coach a little longer than the Garrett/WIlson combo so long).

He did, Wade Phillips...[/quote]

I somehow doubt wade Phillips ever sat in on a qb teaching film session. But I don't know for xertain

 

[CCBoy]

He did, Wade Phillips...

I somehow doubt wade Phillips ever sat in on a qb teaching film session. But I don't know for xertain[/quote]

The fact remains that one can not delegate responsibility no matter the functional roles assumed. It was his team and his job to see to it.

 

[TheDude]

The fact remains that one can not delegate responsibility no matter the functional roles assumed. It was his team and his job to see to it.

Like Garret's Defense..got it

 

[Doomsday101]

He did, Wade Phillips...

I somehow doubt wade Phillips ever sat in on a qb teaching film session. But I don't know for xertain[/quote]

why not as a HC he is responsible, most HC are in each of the meeting it goes with the job. You don't need to be a QB or an offensive coach to understand what is going on Wade as a defensive coach part of that job it to understand exactly what offense does to be able to defend it. Same with Jason as HC his assistant coaches failure still fall to him and even though he has coached offense they do have a very good understanding of defenses.

 

[CCBoy]

Like Garret's Defense..got it

He brought in a stronger coordinator for both sides of the ball...check, check.

 

[EPL0c0]

The 2011 Packers team that went 15-1 had the 32nd ranked defense in the league.

I found that interesting because there have been some questions about how much the Cowboys offense could carry the team this year if the defense just improved a little.

Cowboys 2013 415.3 yards/game

Packers 2011 411.6 yards/game

What saved the Packers defense was that they were tied for 1st in total takeaways with 38.

In 2013, the Cowboys were tied for 13th with 28 total takeaways.

Yards don't mean anything.

2013 Dallas Cowboys gave up 432pts (Offense scored 439pts; 5th best in NFL): that's +7pts
2011 Green Bay Packers gave up 359pts (Offense scored 560pts; best in NFL): that's +201pts.

Of course, total points given up doesn't mean anything, it's WHEN those points are given up.

 

[TheDude]

He brought in a stronger coordinator for both sides of the ball...check, check.

He did? 2011? 2012? 2013? Or 2014?

I assume the answer is "e. Each"

 

[Szczepanik]

Those packers also have a significant homefield advantage, especially in the winter that benefits them.

We have none of the above going for us to even help our offense.