2012 really hurt us

Brockers and Wagner on this team right now. Just think about that for a second. :(
 
Galian Beast said:
Someone doesn't understand opportunity cost.
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Someone doesn't understand the 2012 draft had no affect on the team last season despite their top player from that draft being roasted and lost for the season. It's losing Murray, Scandrick and McClain who contributed to the Cowboys 12-4 playoff season in 2014 that could hold the team down in 2015.
 
KJJ said:
The 2012 draft won't have any affect on the 2015 team that draft had no affect on last seasons team. Claiborne the Cowboys top pick from the 2012 draft was a liability and ended being lost for the season last year but it had no affect on the season. What may hold the Cowboys down this season is the loss of Murray and Scandrick who are huge losses that contributed greatly to the teams success last season. McClain who was a key contributor last season will be gone for a number of games if not the entire season. His future with the team is up in the air. It's going to be difficult for the Cowboys to be the team they were last season and have a chance to improve on it losing 3 key contributors from last years team including the teams MVP.

Although the Cowboys appear to have added some nice pieces in the draft and free agency Hardy will miss the first 4 games and once he returns it may take some time for him to return to form. Although Lee is back it's anyone's guess for how long with his injury history. Gregory is going to have a lot on his plate with Hardy's absence so there's bound to be some growing pains with him. Byron Jones who many feel would make a better safety than corner could struggle covering NFL WR's. With the losses the Cowboys have had it's up in the air what kind of team they'll be in 2015. With the players they've lost they can't afford any significant injuries at key positions if they're going to be close to the team they were last season.
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Our RB's don't have the balance, shed, and drive that Murray had, but they're quicker and more likely to break the long TD.

Scandrick is lost, but Mo is back, and the supporting cast and depth is better.

McClain was a beast at times, but was inconsistent in performance, health, and effort.
Hitchens is a year better, Lee is back at a better spot for him, and our other backers also play well within the system.

Jones may be the best combination of smarts and athleticism since Woody; he'll blow a few coverages this year, but I trust he'll more than make up for it.

Tony played at no better than 80% healthy last year; you could see his impairment (and pain) affecting lateral agility and spinal rotation.
He should be at 95% physically and 105% mentally this year.

The OL lost Parnell, but they're also a year better. Collins isn't as solid as he needs to be yet, but he'll rapidly improve.

The DL is light-years ahead of last year, even if we have to wait for Hardy. This was obviously the team's biggest hole, and now the most improved area.

So, I'm optimistic that we're looking at another 12-4 season, with the depth to go all the way.

(I'm expecting a counterpoint from Pessimist Cowboy)
 
The 2012 draft was pretty bad all over. Props to our scouts who liked Wagner, but they got overruled. They did NOT get overruled in 2013, when in a similarly bad first round we came out with Frederick and then Williams.
 
rocyaice said:
He's the real deal? But how? He's had one solid season under his belt. He's been injured for most of it. All i'm saying is I need to see it before we should reward it.
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Not sure how to answer the 'how' question. He's been a player from the jump. The DL coaches said they couldn't have asked for more from him his rookie season playing 3-4 end in Ryan's scheme. He had the lost achilles season when we moved to the 3-4, but last year his contributions were huge from that undertackle position once Melton was moved out. If all a team gets out of him was last year's production the rest of his career, he easily gets that big extension that's coming. This season, when and if there's finally enough pressure outside to demand some attention, he's going to get singled up, and those hurries are going to become inside sacks. If that happens, he value is going to go up significantly, which is what I expect is going to happen and why I think we might not be able to keep him.
 
Worst blunder under JG watch. There is a reason why he failed in the draft.
 
With all due respect, your title doesn't match your conclusion. Seems like you should have had a question mark after the title. Just saying. :)
 
Doc50 said:
Our RB's don't have the balance, shed, and drive that Murray had, but they're quicker and more likely to break the long TD.

Scandrick is lost, but Mo is back, and the supporting cast and depth is better.

McClain was a beast at times, but was inconsistent in performance, health, and effort.
Hitchens is a year better, Lee is back at a better spot for him, and our other backers also play well within the system.

Jones may be the best combination of smarts and athleticism since Woody; he'll blow a few coverages this year, but I trust he'll more than make up for it.

Tony played at no better than 80% healthy last year; you could see his impairment (and pain) affecting lateral agility and spinal rotation.
He should be at 95% physically and 105% mentally this year.

The OL lost Parnell, but they're also a year better. Collins isn't as solid as he needs to be yet, but he'll rapidly improve.

The DL is light-years ahead of last year, even if we have to wait for Hardy. This was obviously the team's biggest hole, and now the most improved area.

So, I'm optimistic that we're looking at another 12-4 season, with the depth to go all the way.

(I'm expecting a counterpoint from Pessimist Cowboy)
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I'm not a pessimist you don't achieve anything in life expecting the worst in everything. I'm one of the most misunderstood fans on this board. We're discussing a football team that neither you, I or anyone else other than Jerry Jones has control over. I'm a fan who uses facts and past events rather than hopeful feelings and wishes to gage what the outlook for the Cowboys might be. Our backs are more likely to break a long TD run but so was Julius and Felix Jones. The problem with them was they weren't consistent picking up the tough 4 to 9 yards and that's the concern I have with this group. It's moving the chains on 3rd and 2's and 3's that made the offense and Romo so efficient last season. Those downs and distances were where Murray was very effective. He could turn a 1-2 yard loss into a 3-4 yard gain. Had the Cowboys not had the running game they had last season Romo who wasn't 100% would have never held up to 500-600 attempts.

Although MO is back he's back doing what he's normally doing this time of year coming back from an injury. The Cowboys are once again having to be cautious with him which is continuing to stunt his development. We're all pulling for MO but he's going to have a tough time regaining his confidence and making an impact this season coming off a serious injury. McClain was inconsistent at times but was a pleasant surprise for the team and he made up for the loss of Lee. As for the DL until the regular season starts we won't know how far ahead they are from last year so the jury is still out with that group. Not trying to be negative just being candid and telling it like I see it.
 
I personally think Hanna is severely underrated. His improvement in run blocking last year was astounding, and he is the fastest tight end we have.
 
How bad does anyone one draft really hurt us and for how long? lets talk aobut that, its easy to say "such and such draft hurt us" wow really, do other teams have bad drafts, and why did it hurt and what really hurt? What really hurt us so profoundly, that we never really recovered, because from last years stand point, it was a bad call that hurt us from reaching the SB. So how bad did it hurt, verse could it have been a savior in disguise? How come we never look at the good that came from the bad. If we won the SB last year, did the draft of 2012 really hurt? and if so, how bad, that we won the SB two years later?

Someone explain this to me.
 
RingOfHonor88 said:
Brockers and Wagner on this team right now. Just think about that for a second. :(
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Can you imagine?

But that's just how thin the line between success and failure can be for an organization. Another example might be had we whiffed on a player rather than taking Frederick and Williams the next season. Getting legitimately 53 deep and then finding and developing a handful of difference makers is not an easy task.
 
mcompact said:
Rob Ryan hurt us (he pushed for Mo and Carr that offseason). The Roy Williams trade also handcuffed us as well as Miles Austin's Hammys and Ratliff's mysteriously near-death injury that caused his release only to be reborn with the bears. Dead money, loss of picks, bad picks, baffling injuries and a couple of years of a Chip Kelly type DC really put a stunt in our growth. Claiborne and Austin's dead money are the only remnants left from that era. God save the Queen.
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Imagine had he gotten his wish, like we all thought, and had gotten Asemwah (or however you spell it!). Thank you Philly!
 
RingOfHonor88 said:
Brockers and Wagner on this team right now. Just think about that for a second. :(
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Yeah that sucks, but think about this the Mavericks in 1984 picked Sam Perkins with the 4th pick. The 3rd pick was Michael Jordan, and the 5th was Barkley! Talk about depressing.
 
You can play this game ad infinitum, but more likely, ad nauseum. Every year, teams miss on guys both ways.
 
ShiningStar said:
How bad does anyone one draft really hurt us and for how long? lets talk aobut that, its easy to say "such and such draft hurt us" wow really, do other teams have bad drafts, and why did it hurt and what really hurt? What really hurt us so profoundly, that we never really recovered, because from last years stand point, it was a bad call that hurt us from reaching the SB. So how bad did it hurt, verse could it have been a savior in disguise? How come we never look at the good that came from the bad. If we won the SB last year, did the draft of 2012 really hurt? and if so, how bad, that we won the SB two years later?

Someone explain this to me.
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The "IFFY" 2012 draft (which I don't think is really bad) is sandwiched between excellent to outstanding drafts of 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014 & 2015. That being said, Claiborne, Crawford, Wilber, and Hanna have been very productive as a group. The 2012 draft in my opinion, did not stink.

The draft in 2009 on the other hand, was lousy to say the least.

Jason Garrett had to do a complete overhaul of players and coaches to get the right personnel in place to not just compete for a Super Bowl this year, but in the years to come as well.

I am also under the belief that Bill Parcells taught the Jones' and the scouting department what to look for in acquiring players. Since Parcells arrived in 2003, only the 2009 and 2004 drafts have really been downright stinkers. The draft in 2009 stunk moreso than 2004.

My truly excellent to outstanding drafts since Parcells arrived are:
2003: Newman, Witten, and James
2005: Ware, Spears, Burnett, Canty, Barber, and Ratliff
2008: Jones, Jenkins, Bennett and Scandrick (and Eric Walden has thrived with other teams)
2010: Bryant and Lee
2011: Smith, Carter, Murray, and Harris
2013: Frederick, Escobar, Williams, Wilcox, and Randall
2014: Martin, Lawrence, Hitchens, Street, Gardner, and Bishop
2015: HOPEFULLY all of them

When you string excellent drafts like this form 2010-Present, Super Bowls usually are the result.
 
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RingOfHonor88 said:
Brockers and Wagner on this team right now. Just think about that for a second. :(
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Who knows what this team does though. Maybe they don't invest in offensive line in the 1st round. Maybe their record is worse or better and they take a bust. That's the thing about having bad draft picks. You may have a terrible draft but that means the next year you take a different approach.
 
Manster68 said:
True, but hindsight is 20/20. I did not see either of those two as good as they are (or Claiborne struggle like he has).
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I was lukewarm on Brockers but pretty high on Wagner at the time. Claiborne I liked as a prospect, but absolutely hated the trade. It's just fun to look back on what might have been and these guys probably would have been the picks if you believe the team. Oh well. It will be just as sweet when we win this next SB without them.
 
We seem to be getting very close to elite but must shore up the positions that comprise our weak links. 2016's offseason should prove crucial in terms of getting a backup QB, a good RT and a FS with pass coverage ability.
 
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