Twitter: 2016 Draft Derek Henry & Zeke

[IndianaCowboys1994]

Hey I'm going to nitpick your post because everyone loves that, right? My mom says that's the best way to make friends.

I agree Zeke's not a generational talent, but I don't think you have to be the undisputed best at your position to be a generational talent.

Like you say, AP undoubtedly was a generational talent, but various points in his career he wasn't the undisputed best at his position.

Not saying you are wrong, but why isn't Zeke a generational talent? I agree he's not Emmitt or Barry but he's pretty freaking good. If he keeps doing what he's doing for at least 4-5 more seasons hes a Hall of Famer.

 

[Dale]

Hey I'm going to nitpick your post because everyone loves that, right? My mom says that's the best way to make friends.

I agree Zeke's not a generational talent, but I don't think you have to be the undisputed best at your position to be a generational talent.

Like you say, AP undoubtedly was a generational talent, but various points in his career he wasn't the undisputed best at his position.

What if we referred to Zeke as a Hall of Fame talent instead of a generational talent?

 

[IndianaCowboys1994]

What if we referred to Zeke as a Hall of Fame talent instead of a generational talent?

I think Hall of Fame talent is better. Generational is Jim Brown, OJ, Sweetness, Emmitt, Barry, and AP. Zeke isn't in that category...yet. But like I just said if he does what he's doing for 4-5 more years he is a Hall of Famer.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

One will be in the HOF, and one won’t.

 

[408Cowboy]

Hey I'm going to nitpick your post because everyone loves that, right? My mom says that's the best way to make friends.

I agree Zeke's not a generational talent, but I don't think you have to be the undisputed best at your position to be a generational talent.

Like you say, AP undoubtedly was a generational talent, but various points in his career he wasn't the undisputed best at his position.

 

[blueblood70]

Is 500 carries too small a sample size?

Yes Henry is good back one of many.. we have Zeke moving on.
TROLL..whats your point.. how them titans doing? maybe take your man crush somewhere else Zeke is one of the best of you want to ADD Henry , fine but you cant nitpick Stats..you use their

entire career as whole period..

wheres his rushing titles and career avgs that like Zeke align him with the best?

Henry career
50 552 2,503 4.5 25 99 133 2

Zeke career

42 904 4,212 4.7 30 60 227 12 3



this year zeke has 2 td and 4.5 YPC

Henry 3tds and 4.1

and???????????????? Zekes better

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Hey I'm going to nitpick your post because everyone loves that, right? My mom says that's the best way to make friends.

I agree Zeke's not a generational talent, but I don't think you have to be the undisputed best at your position to be a generational talent.

Like you say, AP undoubtedly was a generational talent, but various points in his career he wasn't the undisputed best at his position.

I can dig it. We thinking LT a few years or who?

 

[superonyx]

He's not a generational talent. He's a very, very good TB.

But he's not a generational type guy. Randy Moss............ that's a generational type talent.......... a guy with such unique skill sets - Moss' size, speed, wingspan, etc............ You could argue Moss was one the greatest physical talents to ever play in the NFL, at any position.

There is nothing unique or special about Elliott. He's just a really, really, really good TB.

At least that's how I define generational talent.

There have been very few talents that are at Moss level. It would be easy to argue against almost every other HOF level player if we are using this high of a bar to determine generational talent....Barry Sanders or Emmitt? Nah. JJ Watt or Mack? Nah.
Of course this is only using the measurable talents and forces us to ignore the main talent that all these guys must possess to play at such a high level. That is instincts, drive, brain ect. The non measurable

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Moving the goal posts. You stated it’s a better representation of the 2 players, and you’re right Zeke has a rushing title and Henry does not.

There were no goal posts moved at all, lmao.

The last 500 is a better representation, and you said absolutely nothing to contradict this.

Rushing titles don't mean any player played better or worse over those carries. Pretty silly thing to even bring up honestly lol

 

[ctrous25]

Take away that 98 yard run with the worst tackling you'll ever see ...

 

[CowboyStar88]

There were no goal posts moved at all, lmao.

The last 500 is a better representation, and you said absolutely nothing to contradict this.

Again one has a rushing title and one doesn’t in those 500 carries, so how does that absolutely not contradict that? I’m a big fan of Henry’s and wanted him or Zeke so I’m not gonna trash Henry unlike you who trashes Zeke at every turn.

 

[gimmesix]

Is 500 carries too small a sample size?

It is hard to compare players based on a set number of carries because you have to consider the circumstances. For example, Elliott had 304 carries last year, which means not only did he touch the ball quite a bit more than Henry (215) but also that he was a focal point of the offense. How much of a factor that played in their relative success is hard to determine, but it can't be disregarded.

We have no idea whether Henry would have sunk or swam here given the same demands. His first year he only started two games and carried the ball 110 times, compared to 322 by Elliott. The next year, Henry again started two games (played in 16) and had 176 carries to Elliott's 242 (playing in 10 games). Would Henry have been capable those first two years of being the kind of workhorse Elliott has been?

Right now, 2018 was a career year (outlier) for Henry. So far this year, he's averaging 4.1 per carry while Elliott is averaging 4.6. Up to this point, Elliott has averaged at least 4.6 in three of his four years. Henry has only averaged 4.6 or better once in four years.

 

[Nova]

Not saying you are wrong, but why isn't Zeke a generational talent? I agree he's not Emmitt or Barry but he's pretty freaking good. If he keeps doing what he's doing for at least 4-5 more seasons hes a Hall of Famer.

It's pretty subjective, but in my opinion a generational talent is, by nature, a rare talent.

So a generational talent is a talent whose combination of play and ability in extraordinary for their own era. As we keep getting further into the future and eras get more and more competitive, it's getting harder to be 'wow'd' by a player, but still possible.

Zeke is a great back. Very talented. Very effective. But while he's a very complete player, he's not extraordinary.

Maybe one day we'll look back and talk about his extraordinary longevity and ability to produce, but that's not something apparent right now.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

That is because over the same period of time one first 500 is also his most recent 500. Henry had 215 carries last year as the "Lead" back for the Titians

So if we assume Zeke has gotten better year after year (after all he is a young player you would assume he is ascending)... This is actually unfair to Henry. I agree.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It is hard to compare players based on a set number of carries because you have to consider the circumstances. For example, Elliott had 304 carries last year, which means not only did he touch the ball quite a bit more than Henry (215) but also that he was a focal point of the offense. How much of a factor that played in their relative success is hard to determine, but it can't be disregarded.

We have no idea whether Henry would have sunk or swam here given the same demands. His first year he only started two games and carried the ball 110 times, compared to 322 by Elliott. The next year, Henry again started two games (played in 16) and had 176 carries to Elliott's 242 (playing in 10 games). Would Henry have been capable those first two years of being the kind of workhorse Elliott has been?

Right now, 2018 was a career year (outlier) for Henry. So far this year, he's averaging 4.1 per carry while Elliott is averaging 4.6. Up to this point, Elliott has averaged at least 4.6 in three of his four years. Henry has only averaged 4.6 or better once in four years.

I love how people point at Zeke being the focus of the Cowboys and assume it's all those other titan playmaker that defensive coordinators are kept up at night game planning for.

 

[blueblood70]

There were no goal posts moved at all, lmao.

The last 500 is a better representation, and you said absolutely nothing to contradict this.

Rushing titles don't mean any player played better or worse over those carries. Pretty silly thing to even bring up honestly lol

it does EE with all these extra carries still has a better YPC avg.. thats impressive 5 more career rushing TDs.. I mean whats ever it is you are thinking its not..zeke can handle the carries and still maintain a great avg..

IT ALL MATTERS..and zeke comes out on top in all categories as he should the comps have to stop trying to marginalize his standing and devalue him is insane,, hes our RB for along time get used to it.. ripping your own players to fit a personal vendetta and trying to make moot point that changes nothing is just waste of time..

 

[Nova]

What if we referred to Zeke as a Hall of Fame talent instead of a generational talent?

The Hall of Fame is usually a measure of greatness rather than talent.

But I think Zeke has a chance to make it to the Hall of Fame.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I’m pretty sure they rank him where they do because they have eyes and they know the game better than you or I.


Not trying to be mean but I don’t see the point in arguing what makes Zeke elite. Neither of us are qualified or could possibly know how good Zeke is at the stuff you mentioned. We don’t know how fast he is. What makes Gurley elite? Being elite isn’t about the stuff you want to argue about. Guys get cut from training camp every year who would have something you could point to that makes them special..guys like Darius Jackson. Almost every athlete at this level has the physical ability. But having the brain and the instincts are why workout warriors don’t stand out in the NFL.

What was elite about Ed Reed? Nothing but his production.

I missed the part where you told me why your analysis should be believed over every single analyst, player, coach ect...

We can measure the production of players. And compare. A consensus top back should shine there right?

You know Charles Barkley.... Hall of gamer... Phil Jackson... Hall of famer.... Each has chastised the analytics community and insulted the "nerds" who use stats and don't just "know the game."

They're wrong to assume you can just eye test it no different than you're wrong now.

If you can't point to anything but volume and our offensive line that makes Zeke Elliot then wow.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

He's nit picking touchdowns. It's just stupid...sorry dude Dak Prescott is a way better QB than Mariota. Meaning more TDs for the QB and less for the RB...

Have you looked at Zeke's success from the goal line in 2018?

3 for 11.

Henry?

13 for 17.

 

[gimmesix]

I love how people point at Zeke being the focus of the Cowboys and assume it's all those other titan playmaker that defensive coordinators are kept up at night game planning for.

It's pretty simply to deduce that when you are being handed the ball 300-plus times, defensive coordinators' No. 1 goal is to stop you. When you are being handed the ball 100 times less, then some of the focus of the defense is taken off you. If Henry was being fed the ball as much as Zeke then teams would be cheating toward the run more, like they do with us ... which is what has made our play-action so effective.

I know that you have it out for Elliott, but I've always considered you reasonable enough to acknowledge when data has holes in it. It's fair to look at the last 500 carries as long as we don't cast aside the possible factors that tell the rest of the story.