2018-19 NHL Season

Discussion in 'Sports Zone' started by Trouty, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

    20,309 Messages
    5,772 Likes Received
    EK65 is always a positive Corsi player, what are you talking about? You're missing my point on Burns....EK65 does all of that AND is logging the tough defensive minutes. The only other guys in the league nobody else in the league who do that are Hedman and Doughty. No way Suter belongs in the same tier as these guys.

    McDonagh - who has been a negative Corsi player since 2014, btw - was not world class except for that playoff run. The best defensemen make plays at both ends of the ice, and Mac has absolutely no vision or feel for offensive end. He's in the group with Suter, Vlasic, Tanev, etc. who are so good defensively that they can thrive on a top pair but don't give you a whole lot in the way of offense. They're the antithesis of guys like Ghost and Krug.
     
  2. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

    20,309 Messages
    5,772 Likes Received
    Hedman and Doughty both make a ton of mistakes. Their giveaway numbers are way up there. The nature of being a playmaker in the NHL means making mistakes from time to time.
     
  3. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    EK doesn't log tough defensive minutes. He is deployed offensively more than defensively. Has always been. He might be a positive corsi player, but that's playing sheltered minutes. Like Burns and his pathetic play. I think the both of them combined were a minus-47 last year. And yes, even tho we want to gloss over +/-, it does mean something. Woeful D. So it's tainted. You sound like Ottawa fan. McDonagh was abolsutely a 1D. Top 10 at his peak.
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  4. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    Well no one here is saying they are perfect, but their all around game is so vastly better than EK or Burns. When you score 60+ points, and also play half a game, yeah, you'll make a mistake. Brady and Rodgers make mistakes.

    The fact I have to argue this with you is really shinning a light on the type of hockey fan you are.
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  5. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    You're a Rangers fan. It makes sense.
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  6. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

    20,309 Messages
    5,772 Likes Received
    EK absolutely logs tough defensive minutes. His OZS is in line with Doughty and Hedman and unlike Burns, he does it against opponents' top lines as well.

    +/- doesn't mean **** when you play for Ottawa, and it means even less if you're comparing it to Hedman and Doughty, who both had a PDO over 101 while EK was only at 96.9 lol.
     
  7. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

    20,309 Messages
    5,772 Likes Received
    What are you talking about? You're the one who said they don't make mistakes.

    You're arguing with yourself.
     
  8. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    So you're telling me that Erik Karlsson belongs in the same sentence as Drew Doughty when it comes to D prowess?

    What was EK's OZS vs Drew in 2017? What was his DZS vs Drew?
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  9. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    I didnt say they dont make mistakes, I said they are the most well-rounded D in the league and it isn't close.

    Burns and Karlsson don't sniff the jock of Doughty or Hedman's D prowess.
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  10. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    WRONG

    EK's OZS was 55.1 to Drew's 51.3. EK's CF% was 51.3% to Drew's 53.2%
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  11. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

    20,309 Messages
    5,772 Likes Received
    Uh, yes you did.
    I don't think either of them is as good defensively as Doughty or Hedman and never said as much. I don't even like Brent Burns, so I don't know what you're arguing about.
     
  12. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    Career Fenwick EK 51.7 to Drew's 54.1

    Career Corsi 52.9 to Drews 54.9
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  13. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    Drew is pretty perfect. So you know what, yeah I am saying that. He carries the corpse of Forbort as his pairing. And Hedman got his legacy award, but Drew was the better D, playing harder minutes. He's the best D of his generation.
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  14. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

    20,309 Messages
    5,772 Likes Received
    OZS 2017:
    EK - 55.1
    DD - 51.3
    VH - 54.1

    2016:
    EK - 52.9
    DD - 54.4
    VH - 57.4

    2015:
    EK - 55.3
    DD - 55.9
    VH - 56.6

    3-year average:
    EK - 54.4
    DD - 53.9
    VH - 56

    So I don't really know what you're talking about, b/c EK is used exactly the same as the other two. He's not quite as good defensively as he's not as physical, but he's so good in the transition and offensive game that the's every bit the complete player that those two are. Using one year of +/- on a disaster of a team is a terrible measure to use comparing these 3 guys.
     
  15. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

    20,309 Messages
    5,772 Likes Received
    Drew is the best defenseman in the league, I'm not saying otherwise.

    He also averages 80-something giveaways a year lol
     
  16. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    Playing thirty minutes a night with a guy who should be on the third paring might do that. Best hope Slava Voynov doesn't come back, and send Jake Muzzin back down to Drew.
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  17. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

    20,309 Messages
    5,772 Likes Received
    He had 97 giveaways in 15-16, playing with Muzzin. Giveaways is a pretty meh stat, because it's fluid, but that's a lot. However, it's the byproduct of making plays with the puck. Guys like Suter and Mac have fewer giveaways, but they don't make half as many plays.

    Doughty played 26:50 last year.
     
  18. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    I used one post of +/-. and I even qualified the post. Cut it out.

    What are their defensive zone start percentages?

    Does EK play shorthanded. What are those minutes compared to the three?

    And no doubt his transition game helps his numbers. Whoa be to him when he loses it. Unless you think he's Lidstrom?
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  19. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    Doughty led the NHL in ice time last year. As he does nearly every year. At or around the top depending on what Weber or Suter are doing. But he's more dynamic
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.
  20. Trouty

    Trouty Hear the train a’coming, rollin ‘round the bend.

    31,529 Messages
    80,486 Likes Received
    DZS and SH mins, please?
     
    DFWJC, RGV_C_Los, Sarek and 2 others like this.

Share This Page