2018-19 NHL Season

[Future]

Ghost may have been a bit a stretch, I'll give you that. Karlsson doing what Burns does is my point. Both are subpar, non elite on the backend. Both make their living from offensive play and get dominated in corsi, board battles, walls. They are snipers and playmakers. Premium, blueline snipers and playmakers. They don't belong in the same breath of the Doughty's, Suter's, Weber's, Hedman's. But everyone: WHOA POINTS. It's a slap in the face to compare them to the aforementioned. It's like comparing Kopitar to MacKinnon

As a Rangers fan, I'm disappointed to see you post that about McDonagh. That's crazy, bro. He was world class at one point. Apparently you like points and shiny lights from your D. That's why you guys never win.

EK65 is always a positive Corsi player, what are you talking about? You're missing my point on Burns....EK65 does all of that AND is logging the tough defensive minutes. The only other guys in the league nobody else in the league who do that are Hedman and Doughty. No way Suter belongs in the same tier as these guys.

McDonagh - who has been a negative Corsi player since 2014, btw - was not world class except for that playoff run. The best defensemen make plays at both ends of the ice, and Mac has absolutely no vision or feel for offensive end. He's in the group with Suter, Vlasic, Tanev, etc. who are so good defensively that they can thrive on a top pair but don't give you a whole lot in the way of offense. They're the antithesis of guys like Ghost and Krug.

 

[Future]

Drew Doughty and Hedman say hello, brosefus.

Hedman and Doughty both make a ton of mistakes. Their giveaway numbers are way up there. The nature of being a playmaker in the NHL means making mistakes from time to time.

 

[Trouty]

EK65 is always a positive Corsi player, what are you talking about? You're missing my point on Burns....EK65 does all of that AND is logging the tough defensive minutes. The only other guys in the league nobody else in the league who do that are Hedman and Doughty. No way Suter belongs in the same tier as these guys.

McDonagh - who has been a negative Corsi player since 2014, btw - was not world class. The best defensemen make plays at both ends of the ice, and Mac has absolutely no vision or feel for offensive end. He's in the group with Suter, Vlasic, Tanev, etc. who are so good defensively that they can thrive on a top pair but don't give you a whole lot in the way of offense. They're the antithesis of guys like Ghost and Krug.

EK doesn't log tough defensive minutes. He is deployed offensively more than defensively. Has always been. He might be a positive corsi player, but that's playing sheltered minutes. Like Burns and his pathetic play. I think the both of them combined were a minus-47 last year. And yes, even tho we want to gloss over +/-, it does mean something. Woeful D. So it's tainted. You sound like Ottawa fan. McDonagh was abolsutely a 1D. Top 10 at his peak.

 

[Trouty]

Hedman and Doughty both make a ton of mistakes. Their giveaway numbers are way up there. The nature of being a playmaker in the NHL means making mistakes from time to time.

Well no one here is saying they are perfect, but their all around game is so vastly better than EK or Burns. When you score 60+ points, and also play half a game, yeah, you'll make a mistake. Brady and Rodgers make mistakes.

The fact I have to argue this with you is really shinning a light on the type of hockey fan you are.

 

[Trouty]

Hedman and Doughty both make a ton of mistakes. Their giveaway numbers are way up there. The nature of being a playmaker in the NHL means making mistakes from time to time.

You're a Rangers fan. It makes sense.

 

[Future]

EK doesn't log tough defensive minutes. He is deployed offensively more than defensively. Has always been. He might be a positive corsi player, but that's playing sheltered minutes. Like Burns and his pathetic play. I think the both of them combined were a minus-47 last year. And yes, even tho we want to gloss over +/-, it does mean something. Woeful D. So it's tainted. You sound like Ottawa fan. McDonagh was abolsutely a 1D. Top 10 at his peak.

EK absolutely logs tough defensive minutes. His OZS is in line with Doughty and Hedman and unlike Burns, he does it against opponents' top lines as well.

+/- doesn't mean **** when you play for Ottawa, and it means even less if you're comparing it to Hedman and Doughty, who both had a PDO over 101 while EK was only at 96.9 lol.

 

[Future]

Well no one here is saying they are perfect, but their all around game is so vastly better than EK or Burns. When you score 60+ points, and also play half a game, yeah, you'll make a mistake. Brady and Rodgers make mistakes.

The fact I have to argue this with you is really shinning a light on the type of hockey fan you are.

What are you talking about? You're the one who said they don't make mistakes.

You're arguing with yourself.

 

[Trouty]

EK absolutely logs tough defensive minutes. His OZS is in line with Doughty and Hedman and unlike Burns, he does it against opponents' top lines as well.

+/- doesn't mean **** when you play for Ottawa, and it means even less if you're comparing it to Hedman and Doughty, who both had a PDO over 101 while EK was only at 96.9 lol.

So you're telling me that Erik Karlsson belongs in the same sentence as Drew Doughty when it comes to D prowess?

What was EK's OZS vs Drew in 2017? What was his DZS vs Drew?

 

[Trouty]

What are you talking about? You're the one who said they don't make mistakes.

You're arguing with yourself.

I didnt say they dont make mistakes, I said they are the most well-rounded D in the league and it isn't close.

Burns and Karlsson don't sniff the jock of Doughty or Hedman's D prowess.

 

[Trouty]

EK absolutely logs tough defensive minutes. His OZS is in line with Doughty and Hedman and unlike Burns, he does it against opponents' top lines as well.

+/- doesn't mean **** when you play for Ottawa, and it means even less if you're comparing it to Hedman and Doughty, who both had a PDO over 101 while EK was only at 96.9 lol.

WRONG

EK's OZS was 55.1 to Drew's 51.3. EK's CF% was 51.3% to Drew's 53.2%

 

[Future]

I didnt say they dont make mistakes, I said they are the most well-rounded D in the league and it isn't close.

Burns and Karlsson don't sniff the jock of Doughty or Hedman's D prowess.

Uh, yes you did.

Drew Doughty and Hedman say hello, brosefus.

I don't think either of them is as good defensively as Doughty or Hedman and never said as much. I don't even like Brent Burns, so I don't know what you're arguing about.

 

[Trouty]

What are you talking about?.

Career Fenwick EK 51.7 to Drew's 54.1

Career Corsi 52.9 to Drews 54.9

 

[Trouty]

Uh, yes you did.

I don't think either of them is as good defensively as Doughty or Hedman and never said as much. I don't even like Brent Burns, so I don't know what you're arguing about.

Drew is pretty perfect. So you know what, yeah I am saying that. He carries the corpse of Forbort as his pairing. And Hedman got his legacy award, but Drew was the better D, playing harder minutes. He's the best D of his generation.

 

[Future]

So you're telling me that Erik Karlsson belongs in the same sentence as Drew Doughty when it comes to D prowess?

What was EK's OZS vs Drew in 2017? What was his DZS vs Drew?

OZS 2017:
EK - 55.1
DD - 51.3
VH - 54.1

2016:
EK - 52.9
DD - 54.4
VH - 57.4

2015:
EK - 55.3
DD - 55.9
VH - 56.6

3-year average:
EK - 54.4
DD - 53.9
VH - 56

So I don't really know what you're talking about, b/c EK is used exactly the same as the other two. He's not quite as good defensively as he's not as physical, but he's so good in the transition and offensive game that the's every bit the complete player that those two are. Using one year of +/- on a disaster of a team is a terrible measure to use comparing these 3 guys.

 

[Future]

Drew is pretty perfect. So you know what, yeah I am saying that. He carries the circus of Forbort as his second pairing. And Hedman got his legacy award, but Drew was the better D, playing harder minutes. He's the best D of his generation.

Drew is the best defenseman in the league, I'm not saying otherwise.

He also averages 80-something giveaways a year lol

 

[Trouty]

Drew is the best defenseman in the league, I'm not saying otherwise.

He also averages 80-something giveaways a year lol

Playing thirty minutes a night with a guy who should be on the third paring might do that. Best hope Slava Voynov doesn't come back, and send Jake Muzzin back down to Drew.

 

[Future]

Playing thirty minutes a night with a guy who should be on the third paring might do that. Best hope Slava Voynov doesn't come back, and send Jake Muzzin back down to Drew.

He had 97 giveaways in 15-16, playing with Muzzin. Giveaways is a pretty meh stat, because it's fluid, but that's a lot. However, it's the byproduct of making plays with the puck. Guys like Suter and Mac have fewer giveaways, but they don't make half as many plays.

Doughty played 26:50 last year.

 

[Trouty]

OZS 2017:
EK - 55.1
DD - 51.3
VH - 54.1

2016:
EK - 52.9
DD - 54.4
VH - 57.4

2015:
EK - 55.3
DD - 55.9
VH - 56.6

3-year average:
EK - 54.4
DD - 53.9
VH - 56

So I don't really know what you're talking about, b/c EK is used exactly the same as the other two. He's not quite as good defensively as he's not as physical, but he's so good in the transition and offensive game that the's every bit the complete player that those two are. Using one year of +/- on a disaster of a team is a terrible measure to use comparing these 3 guys.

I used one post of +/-. and I even qualified the post. Cut it out.

What are their defensive zone start percentages?

Does EK play shorthanded. What are those minutes compared to the three?

And no doubt his transition game helps his numbers. Whoa be to him when he loses it. Unless you think he's Lidstrom?

 

[Trouty]

He had 97 giveaways in 15-16, playing with Muzzin. Giveaways is a pretty meh stat, because it's fluid, but that's a lot. However, it's the byproduct of making plays with the puck. Guys like Suter and Mac have fewer giveaways, but they don't make half as many plays.

Doughty played 26:50 last year.

Doughty led the NHL in ice time last year. As he does nearly every year. At or around the top depending on what Weber or Suter are doing. But he's more dynamic

 

[Trouty]

OZS 2017:
EK - 55.1
DD - 51.3
VH - 54.1

2016:
EK - 52.9
DD - 54.4
VH - 57.4

2015:
EK - 55.3
DD - 55.9
VH - 56.6

3-year average:
EK - 54.4
DD - 53.9
VH - 56

So I don't really know what you're talking about, b/c EK is used exactly the same as the other two. He's not quite as good defensively as he's not as physical, but he's so good in the transition and offensive game that the's every bit the complete player that those two are. Using one year of +/- on a disaster of a team is a terrible measure to use comparing these 3 guys.

DZS and SH mins, please?