2018-19 NHL Season

Also, wanted to clarify... Doughty hasn't had a true top pairing partner since October, 2014 when Voynov was arrested, which sent Muzzin to the second pairing to fill Slava's vacancy. He carries the Kings top pairing, and often the team's D.
 
Trouty said:
Last year, when Doughty doubled EK's avg SH TOI, OTT avg 11.12 PIMs/game to LAK 8.96. LA was ranked 11th in most penalized, to OTT's 2nd. So while there is a difference, it doesn't make up for EK being doubled up. In fact, it goes in the face of your very argument
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What argument? This entire thread you've been arguing with me as if I'm saying that EK65 is a better defensive player than DD and Hedman. I never said that and I don't think that. But your original point about EK can't play 30:00 but the other two can was and remains nonsense. You've made stuff up about deployment and when your point about zone starts was b.s., you moved the goalposts to SHTOI, which is weak considering the fact that EK65 is a puck mover, not Dan Girardi. Also, your numbers are wrong. LAK averaged 8:57 and OTT averaged 8:08 PIM/GP.
 
Future said:
What argument? This entire thread you've been arguing with me as if I'm saying that EK65 is a better defensive player than DD and Hedman. I never said that and I don't think that. But your original point about EK can't play 30:00 but the other two can was and remains nonsense. You've made stuff up about deployment and when your point about zone starts was b.s., you moved the goalposts to SHTOI, which is weak considering the fact that EK65 is a puck mover, not Dan Girardi. Also, your numbers are wrong. LAK averaged 8:57 and OTT averaged 8:08 PIM/GP.
Click to expand...
I was looking at Calgary, not OTT. Damn. You got me there. Still, point stands, Drew doubles EK with SH mins at roughly the same amount of PIM/G. If a difference of 50 seconds isn't "roughly the same" (my words), then a difference of 3-4% in DZS isn't, either.

Show me where I was making stuff up about Zone Deployment

I am irrationally upset that I ruined a good post by simply brain farting on the wrong team, and now you can use that against me, rather than trying to see the point I made in response to your Team A 1 penalty vs Team B 5 penalty argument
 
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Future said:
What argument? This entire thread you've been arguing with me as if I'm saying that EK65 is a better defensive player than DD and Hedman. I never said that and I don't think that. But your original point about EK can't play 30:00 but the other two can was and remains nonsense. You've made stuff up about deployment and when your point about zone starts was b.s., you moved the goalposts to SHTOI, which is weak considering the fact that EK65 is a puck mover, not Dan Girardi. Also, your numbers are wrong. LAK averaged 8:57 and OTT averaged 8:08 PIM/GP.
Click to expand...
My whole argument here is that EK is an elite one-dimensional defenseman that will never sniff the jock of the well-rounded elite defensemen in the mold of VH/DD. My argument was never meant to be specific. I am talking hockey. I am not trying to pigeonhole your many arguments/replies, don't do it to me.
 
Trouty said:
My whole argument here is that EK is an elite one-dimensional defenseman that will never sniff the jock of the well-rounded elite defensemen in the mold of VH/DD. My argument was never meant to be specific. I am talking hockey. I am not trying to pigeonhole your many arguments/replies, don't do it to me.
Click to expand...
And my argument is that you're wrong, and you're trying to use specific metrics to do it...but they don't exist.
 
Trouty said:
I was looking at Calgary, not OTT. Damn. You got me there. Still, point stands, Drew doubles EK with SH mins at roughly the same amount of PIM/G. If a difference of 50 seconds isn't "roughly the same" (my words), then a difference of 3-4% in DZS isn't, either.

Show me where I was making stuff up about Zone Deployment

I am irrationally upset that I ruined a good post by simply brain farting on the wrong team, and now you can use that against me, rather than trying to see the point I made in response to your Team A 1 penalty vs Team B 5 penalty argument
Click to expand...
50 seconds isn't roughly the same. DD kills more penalties than EK. It doesn't change anything about how good either is or isn't.

You said that DD got easier zone deployment, the 3 are all basically the same.
 
Future said:
50 seconds isn't roughly the same. DD kills more penalties than EK. It doesn't change anything about how good either is or isn't.

You said that DD got easier zone deployment, the 3 are all basically the same.
Click to expand...
No, a difference in 3-4% isn't any more "roughly the same" as 50 secs a game, over the course of a season, when EK is probably getting the 4th most PK mins on his own team.

Future, something tells me you like to have the last word.
 
Future said:
What argument? This entire thread you've been arguing with me as if I'm saying that EK65 is a better defensive player than DD and Hedman. I never said that and I don't think that. But your original point about EK can't play 30:00 but the other two can was and remains nonsense. You've made stuff up about deployment and when your point about zone starts was b.s., you moved the goalposts to SHTOI, which is weak considering the fact that EK65 is a puck mover, not Dan Girardi. Also, your numbers are wrong. LAK averaged 8:57 and OTT averaged 8:08 PIM/GP.
Click to expand...
Where did I "make stuff up?" Show me the post. Hold my hand. Point me there, hoss.
 
Trouty said:
No, a difference in 3-4% isn't any more "roughly the same" as 50 secs a game, over the course of a season, when EK is probably getting the 4th most PK mins on his own team.

Future, something tells me you like to have the last word.
Click to expand...
3-4% zone starts is 1-2 faceoffs per game. That is demonstrably more similar than 50 seconds of SH TOi.
 
Trouty said:
I used, didn't "try" specific metrics. The only one you got me on was a brainfart where I mixed up Calgary with Ottawa.

The rest is you assuming "it's all the same"
Click to expand...
Trouty said:
Where did I "make stuff up?" Show me the post. Hold my hand. Point me there, hoss.
Click to expand...
See below.

OZS 2017:
EK - 55.1
DD - 51.3
VH - 54.1

2016:
EK - 52.9
DD - 54.4
VH - 57.4

2015:
EK - 55.3
DD - 55.9
VH - 56.6

3-year average:
EK - 54.4
DD - 53.9
VH - 56

DD, EK, and VH all have effectively the same OZS rate. The difference between 54.4% and 53.9% is basically 1 faceoff per game. So your idea that EK gets all these easier minutes is nonsense. You made up some crap about deployment, and the actual numbers are way off from what you're saying.
 
Future said:
See below.

OZS 2017:
EK - 55.1
DD - 51.3
VH - 54.1

2016:
EK - 52.9
DD - 54.4
VH - 57.4

2015:
EK - 55.3
DD - 55.9
VH - 56.6

3-year average:
EK - 54.4
DD - 53.9
VH - 56

DD, EK, and VH all have effectively the same OZS rate. The difference between 54.4% and 53.9% is basically 1 faceoff per game. So your idea that EK gets all these easier minutes is nonsense. You made up some crap about deployment, and the actual numbers are way off from what you're saying.
Click to expand...
Your post doesn't say I made anything up.

DZS

2013

DD 45.3
EK 44.5

2014

DD 47.1
EK 46.7

2015

DD 44.1
EK 44.7

2016 (I'll give him this season; it was EK's best as an all around D, as his DZS shot up, as well as his SH TOI, but it plummeted back to his baseline after this outlier)

DD 45.6
EK 47.1

2017

DD 48.7
EK 44.9

Career

DD 46.3
EK 44.5

Also enjoy how you conveniently ignore your own bull **** argument about SH TOI.

Don't call me a liar, bro. I haven't done such in this thread.
 
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Future said:
See below.

OZS 2017:
EK - 55.1
DD - 51.3
VH - 54.1

2016:
EK - 52.9
DD - 54.4
VH - 57.4

2015:
EK - 55.3
DD - 55.9
VH - 56.6

3-year average:
EK - 54.4
DD - 53.9
VH - 56

DD, EK, and VH all have effectively the same OZS rate. The difference between 54.4% and 53.9% is basically 1 faceoff per game. So your idea that EK gets all these easier minutes is nonsense. You made up some crap about deployment, and the actual numbers are way off from what you're saying.
Click to expand...
Easier/more effective minutes aren't relegated to pure OZS. Holy ****. Penalty kill mins and Corsi/Fenwick are other measures. Drew's career numbers win there, too. I can't believe I'm having this argument. You sure you're not an OTT fan?
 
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Future said:
See below.

OZS 2017:
EK - 55.1
DD - 51.3
VH - 54.1

2016:
EK - 52.9
DD - 54.4
VH - 57.4

2015:
EK - 55.3
DD - 55.9
VH - 56.6

3-year average:
EK - 54.4
DD - 53.9
VH - 56

DD, EK, and VH all have effectively the same OZS rate. The difference between 54.4% and 53.9% is basically 1 faceoff per game. So your idea that EK gets all these easier minutes is nonsense. You made up some crap about deployment, and the actual numbers are way off from what you're saying.
Click to expand...
Where did I lie? Call me a liar, show me where I lied?
 
Hopefully the Crapitals poop the bed this year. Time for the Pens to take back their Cup.

GO PENS
 
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