2018: 23 years old; 4 years; 60 Million; 45 GTD

[ESisback]

zeke is the exception, not the rule. spell him on occasion, keeping him fresh, and he will dominate games. he is a proven chain mover. when it's 3rd and short, he gets the first down. on 4th and short, I feel more confident he will get the first than I have in years. but there will come a time when the brass has to get serious about how much money they can pay him. zeke will need to get serious about how much he wants. another problematic signing.

Don’t we have him for 2019, and can’t we franchise him in 2020 and 2021? Would a giant, 5 or 6 year contract even be viable by then? How much tread will actually be left by September 2022?

 

[Corso]

This was the wolf btw.

Now that someone mentioned it. He kind of does look a bit like LVE. Maybe our new mascot? Would certainly be better than Rowdy.

I hate to be the one to break it to you... but Esch kills wolves.
That's why they call him the Wolf Hunter.
Not because he looks like a wolf, which he doesn't... he looks more like a 50's B-Sci-Fi movies lead actor like Peter Graves, but yoked up, BUT...

He hunts wolves.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I hate to be the one to break it to you... but Esch kills wolves.
That's why they call him the Wolf Hunter.
Not because he looks like a wolf, which he doesn't... he looks more like a 50's B-Sci-Fi movies lead actor like Peter Graves, but yoked up, BUT...

He hunts wolves.

Oh yeah...that's right. That's a pity. Lovely mascot that wolf would make.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Just take your L dude

Yes, taking advice from someone so myopically tunnel visioned regurgitating football bromides while ignoring this game is cyclical is the smart move for me.

The one thing about watching this team since the very first game against the Steelers is you have a history to draw on. How teams chase the latest and greatest thing until someone else comes up with a way to stop it. We see this right here when Dallas was lights out in 2016 and then defenses started playing near the line of scrimmage.

No running back who won the season rushing title ever went on to lead his team in winning that year's SB.

Until Emmitt did it three times. Used to be players had jobs in the off season. They came in fat and out of shape. Hence the long training camps. There was a time the receivers were big. Then the Smurfs. Now it is moving back to big. Linebackers were big and slow. TE's were mainly blockers. But all that has changed.

And the cap does not prevent a team from winning.

But what is a consistent is championship teams are built around play makers. Skill positions get paid the most because they put points on the board.

You can argue with yourself now, Spunky.

 

[Corso]

Yes, taking advice from someone so myopically tunnel visioned regurgitating football bromides while ignoring this game is cyclical is the smart move for me.

The one thing about watching this team since the very first game against the Steelers is you have a history to draw on. How teams chase the latest and greatest thing until someone else comes up with a way to stop it. We see this right here when Dallas was lights out in 2016 and then defenses started playing near the line of scrimmage.

No running back who won the season rushing title ever went on to lead his team in winning that year's SB.

Until Emmitt did it three times. Used to be players had jobs in the off season. They came in fat and out of shape. Hence the long training camps. There was a time the receivers were big. Then the Smurfs. Now it is moving back to big. Linebackers were big and slow. TE's were mainly blockers. But all that has changed.

And the cap does not prevent a team from winning.

But what is a consistent is championship teams are built around play makers. Skill positions get paid the most because they put points on the board.

You can argue with yourself now, Spunky.

He can take his L?

 

[buybuydandavis]

The point?

RB is the most wasteful position to invest heavily in. Period.

The Rams are 1 year into a new deal for Gurley and in their heart of hearts they're counting down the days until 2022 when they can get out from under the it.

Another point to take is that you don't run grind your all star back into hamburger as a "bell cow". Let someone else take touches, particularly between the tackles. And use him as a decoy to take attention away from other players.

Dak, Olawale, Austin, Pollard. Lots of run threats on the field *with* Zeke. Throwing isn't the only alternative to something other than running Zeke. We can run someone else. And should.

 

[gimmesix]

But I have a sneaky suspicion all the "Don't sign Dak" and "Don't sign Zeke" is more of a backlash against the Cowboys for not going after Earl Thomas. Instead of signing two YOUNG players that has done nothing but lead the Cowboys to 2 divisional championships in 3 years, people would have rather spent money on an OLD player who has finished 2 of the last 3 years on IR and did not play a full season since 2015.

Oh well, I'm not going to be the one crying or screaming if/when Dak, Zeke and Coop are all resigned. And if they all don't resign, ok. You've still got to draft and coach them up.

Although I would have liked for the team to have done more at the safety spot, and signing Earl Thomas would have qualified as that with obvious risk, I'm in the camp of "Don't sign Dak or Zeke ... yet." I think Elliott should be re-signed eventually (unless we just happen to stumble upon a replacement his caliber), but running back is a tough wear-and-tear position, so I'd put it off until I have to sign him. With Dak, I just want to see more before we commit the type of money it takes to sign a franchise quarterback. We've seen some ups and downs and I'd rather give it another year to see where he's going to settle, even if it ends up costing us a little more.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Well.....that's kind of the point. RBs get injured at a higher rate and wear down more quickly than any position in football. It's exactly why you should throw low cost quantity at the position and not high cost all eggs in one basket at the position.

they do. no denying. I am not worried about paying big dollars, more so on guaranteed dollars and how many years...if he gets a 90 million 5 year contract but guaranteed for 36 million 3 years...that's a good deal for a RB like Zeke.

 

[Corso]

People think so linearly.

 

[cern]

Don’t we have him for 2019, and can’t we franchise him in 2020 and 2021? Would a giant, 5 or 6 year contract even be viable by then? How much tread will actually be left by September 2022?

Since we picked up the option, he's ours thru 2020. The only potential problem is a holdout.

 

[mattjames2010]

I agree, patterns are not difficult to see, yet some still have a difficult time seeing them:

1. Absolutely not true and it has been covered very thoroughly in the last several years. In fact, drafting a QB in the first round has a > 66% chance of being a bust and not a Franchise QB. Let alone a Super Bowl QB.

2. I hate to say this, but very rarely does a team win a Super Bowl without a very good Defense. So Franchise QB or not, the chances of you winning with an average, or worse, defense is very, very slim. Imagine that, the NFL is NOT the NBA.

3. I find it funny that so many fans are still afraid of the Cap. It's just silly. There are really smart people, making a ton of money, that has devised ways to get around "cap issues" each and every year.

4. If there was truly one way to win a Super Bowl, why isn't every team built the exact same?
I remember hearing how an 0-2 team could not, would not, and never has won a Super Bowl, then the '93 Cowboys came along. And since then, the 2001 Patriots and the 2007 Giants have joined the club. Do I suggest going 0-2? NO! But just because it is not "typical" does not mean it is impossible.

5. We just differ on the value of Dak, Zeke and Coop. If all want to be paid at the Top of their position, then so be it, we may have to give up on one. But none of them keep us from having a Championship Caliber Defense either. The only way one effects the other is if Dallas wants to build a team through Free Agency. And even then, a smart cap guy can get it to work out.

But I have a sneaky suspicion all the "Don't sign Dak" and "Don't sign Zeke" is more of a backlash against the Cowboys for not going after Earl Thomas. Instead of signing two YOUNG players that has done nothing but lead the Cowboys to 2 divisional championships in 3 years, people would have rather spent money on an OLD player who has finished 2 of the last 3 years on IR and did not play a full season since 2015.

Oh well, I'm not going to be the one crying or screaming if/when Dak, Zeke and Coop are all resigned. And if they all don't resign, ok. You've still got to draft and coach them up.

I just wish I could feel better about the "coach them up" part.

1. I never claimed finding a franchise QB is easy, I said it's easier than building an elite defense that can stay together. You can get a franchise QB and keep him for 10-12 seasons, you will not have an elite defense for that long - MAYBE 2-3 years max.

2. Teams have won without elite defenses, I never mentioned teams can win with a bad defense

3. Cap still matters, no matter how much you quote Stephen Jones

4. I already mentioned the pattern of Super Bowl winners the past 15-16 years, it's either a team with an elite defense or a team with top 5 QBs. None of these teams had elite RBs or elite WRs.

5. All three will be wanting significant money; especially Dak. Pretending having all your money invested in the OL, skill position, and QB won't hurt the defense in the future is naive - the first place it will start to hit is depth on defense, which I value especially down the stretch

 

[SackMaster]

Although I would have liked for the team to have done more at the safety spot, and signing Earl Thomas would have qualified as that with obvious risk, I'm in the camp of "Don't sign Dak or Zeke ... yet." I think Elliott should be re-signed eventually (unless we just happen to stumble upon a replacement his caliber), but running back is a tough wear-and-tear position, so I'd put it off until I have to sign him. With Dak, I just want to see more before we commit the type of money it takes to sign a franchise quarterback. We've seen some ups and downs and I'd rather give it another year to see where he's going to settle, even if it ends up costing us a little more.

I really don't have s problem with the "yet" people and in a perfect world, yes, you would always have time to wait on "a sure bet". Unfortunately, opportunity does not always knock at the most opportunistic time.

While I am not 100% convinced Dak is the next Franchise QB, I am pretty confident that the Cowboys will have another good year, possibly winning the division and another playoff game. If that happens, that is almost a lock that Dak's yearly salary starts reaching, or exceeding, that of Russel Wilson. So if $30 mill a year is bad, how is $36+ mill a year better? Some believe that is absurd, but I believe in it so much that if I was Dak's agent, I force the Cowboys to deal with my client next off-season once Dak leads them to another playoff victory and becomes the most successful post season QB Dallas has had since Troy Aikman. I know that is not saying much, but when you go from 1-12 with other QBs the season before Dak, to winning 2 playoff games in 4 years, which will match their playoff victories from 1997 to 2015, then yes, he will have significant leverage.

And for Zeke, the biggest reason I would not resign him is probably the best reason to resign him, and that is his immaturity. Yes his usage rate is really high, but if he is suspended again, then that could be up to 3/4 of a season's worth off due to suspension in his first 4 years. So you can use his NFL punishment record to drive his price down a little, while having him be almost a year fresher (again, assuming a suspension for this past incident). If not, until he shows sign of wear and tear, which I have yet to see, I am willing to pay if he is smart enough to stay out of trouble and play.

I feel like some people loose track on how hard success is in any aspect of life, let alone competitive sports. Not everything is easy, and I am grateful for that.

 

[SackMaster]

1. I never claimed finding a franchise QB is easy, I said it's easier than building an elite defense that can stay together. You can get a franchise QB and keep him for 10-12 seasons, you will not have an elite defense for that long - MAYBE 2-3 years max.

2. Teams have won without elite defenses, I never mentioned teams can win with a bad defense

3. Cap still matters, no matter how much you quote Stephen Jones

4. I already mentioned the pattern of Super Bowl winners the past 15-16 years, it's either a team with an elite defense or a team with top 5 QBs. None of these teams had elite RBs or elite WRs.

5. All three will be wanting significant money; especially Dak. Pretending having all your money invested in the OL, skill position, and QB won't hurt the defense in the future is naive - the first place it will start to hit is depth on defense, which I value especially down the stretch

1. You just said you don't claim it is not easy to get a Franchise QB, then turn around and make it sound easy to find a Franchise QB vs putting together a great defense. Which is it? (If you get to #5, it will give you a clue)

2. It really determines your definition of elite is. Was the Cowboys defense "elite" in 2018 (regular season)? If so, the Patriots were exactly as good in scoring defense, and they were better in the playoffs. In fact, while Brady gets most of the praise of the Patriots Dynasty, the defense has more than done it's part to stop elite offense and/or secure Super Bowl wins. Unless they play the NFC East, of course.

3. Didn't know I was quoting Stephen Jones, just going off what I see happen in the league EVERY year. If you can't / refuse to see it, that's not my problem.

4. Again, just because something hasn't happened does not mean it does not. Take out Tom Brady from the history books, you know, a 6th Round QB, I wonder if a Elite RB or WR wins a Super Bowl then?

5. The Patriots rarely spend any big money on Defense, yet they are have been OUTSIDE the Top-10 in scoring defense just once since 2006 (1 in 13 years, 2011 ranked 15th). That is despite letting go or trading away guys like:

1. Matt Vrabel
2. Malcom Butler
3. Jamie Collins
4. Chandler Jones
5. Richard Seymour
6. Aqib Talib

You say it is harder to keep an "elite defense" together, yet the Patriots, with loss of Pro-Bowlers and All-Pros every other year, are one of the best defenses year after year after year.

On the other side, you have teams that have fell for the Patriots "can't miss" backups by giving up big money, and premium picks, for QBs not even as successful as Dak.

But that again takes me back to what I have been saying all along ............... Coaching, it's one hell of an advantage.

 

[Alexander]

So help me understand the tone of this thread.

We should overpay the QB because of his position, regardless of his inability to direct an offense without the RB, who we do not want to pay.

Am I getting this correctly?

 

[mmohican29]

I would not sign Elliott again, but for every reason except his football talent and production.

A player like Zeke is not "easily replaced". You can throw productivity stats at this and find your truth if you want to, yadda yadda James Connor, Spencer Ware blah blah.

I will go with my eyes which tell me he is a HOF player and opponents know this as well.

He equates for divisional does to the biannual visit to the Dentist. It's going to suck. It's going to be painful. Anything less than Ezekiel Elliott at RB1 is a step backward. Any player less than Ezekiel Elliott is any RB in the NFL. What he does in this scheme- the Cowboys offense-cannot be duplicated by a different player in the game today.

If he goes, we go backwards for sure. How far backwards? Tough to say.

All that aside, I do not move forward in re-signing him. It's way too risky.

 

[mattjames2010]

1. You just said you don't claim it is not easy to get a Franchise QB, then turn around and make it sound easy to find a Franchise QB vs putting together a great defense. Which is it? (If you get to #5, it will give you a clue)

2. It really determines your definition of elite is. Was the Cowboys defense "elite" in 2018 (regular season)? If so, the Patriots were exactly as good in scoring defense, and they were better in the playoffs. In fact, while Brady gets most of the praise of the Patriots Dynasty, the defense has more than done it's part to stop elite offense and/or secure Super Bowl wins. Unless they play the NFC East, of course.

3. Didn't know I was quoting Stephen Jones, just going off what I see happen in the league EVERY year. If you can't / refuse to see it, that's not my problem.

4. Again, just because something hasn't happened does not mean it does not. Take out Tom Brady from the history books, you know, a 6th Round QB, I wonder if a Elite RB or WR wins a Super Bowl then?

5. The Patriots rarely spend any big money on Defense, yet they are have been OUTSIDE the Top-10 in scoring defense just once since 2006 (1 in 13 years, 2011 ranked 15th). That is despite letting go or trading away guys like:

1. Matt Vrabel
2. Malcom Butler
3. Jamie Collins
4. Chandler Jones
5. Richard Seymour
6. Aqib Talib

You say it is harder to keep an "elite defense" together, yet the Patriots, with loss of Pro-Bowlers and All-Pros every other year, are one of the best defenses year after year after year.

On the other side, you have teams that have fell for the Patriots "can't miss" backups by giving up big money, and premium picks, for QBs not even as successful as Dak.

But that again takes me back to what I have been saying all along ............... Coaching, it's one hell of an advantage.

1. No, I didn't. Nothing about the NFL is "easy", I listed two most probable ways to win a Super Bowl, I gave the easier route to go down - that's getting a franchise QB. Building an elite defense and keeping it together is tougher, not sure why this is controversial or difficult to understand - but moving on.

2. No, the Cowboys defense was not elite in 2018. It was actually quite a down year in terms of defenses as a whole last year, not sure a single one I would say was "elite".

3. It is very much a dopey Stephen Jones quote, but even he turns around in the same breath and says he's worried about reasonable contracts. Cap matters, and we were in a funk for years because Jerry and Stephen thought they could outsmart the system, they didn't.

4. LOL you want to rely on the outliers of outliers? A GOAT QB paired with a GOAT HC?

5. The Patriots have Tom Brady, the best QB in the league.

The Patriots can afford losing defensive players BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE GREATEST QUARTERBACK AND COACH IN HISTORY OF THE NFL. Of course they can afford to lose freakin' players, dude, we are working with an Alex Smith clone and Garrett LOL

 

[northerncowboynation]

That is what the Rams signed up for this time last year.

And now....



The point?

RB is the most wasteful position to invest heavily in. Period.

The Rams are 1 year into a new deal for Gurley and in their heart of hearts they're counting down the days until 2022 when they can get out from under the it.

Bull fart, #1 players, in this case Zeke are worth every penny

 

[northerncowboynation]

I would not sign Elliott again, but for every reason except his football talent and production.

A player like Zeke is not "easily replaced". You can throw productivity stats at this and find your truth if you want to, yadda yadda James Connor, Spencer Ware blah blah.

I will go with my eyes which tell me he is a HOF player and opponents know this as well.

He equates for divisional does to the biannual visit to the Dentist. It's going to suck. It's going to be painful. Anything less than Ezekiel Elliott at RB1 is a step backward. Any player less than Ezekiel Elliott is any RB in the NFL. What he does in this scheme- the Cowboys offense-cannot be duplicated by a different player in the game today.

If he goes, we go backwards for sure. How far backwards? Tough to say.

All that aside, I do not move forward in re-signing him. It's way too risky.

Super glad you have no signing authority @mmohican29

 

[Hennessy_King]

Will do. Then, on July 26, I'm expecting to turn around and head to my summer spot in Seaside Heights, NJ. Then, go from there.

ooooooo sleazeside lol. That's what we call it any way. Go to point pleasant much better bar scene with better females if you go, go to jenks. Both decent boardwalks.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You and I like that but Zeke would be crazy to no hold out after this year. Just look at the Bell situation. These players want to get paid, it's just the nature of the league.

I completely agree. Let him hold out. Who cares? This is why they need good backups.