2022 FIFA World Cup

[atlantacowboy]

The US/MLS also is somewhat reliant on the college system whereas other countries do not.

I agree the MLS is a lower tier league. Playing in the MLS is not going to produce enough quality. More guys need to battle in Europe to hone their skills. Mexico has the same problems. Playing in Liga MX is not the same as playing in Europe. Even players in South America recognize the better competition plus better pay is found in the European leagues.

I'm somewhat impressed on how the MLS developed. That it survived the early years and has grown is a good thing, but it is a long way from being a top notch league. The odds are that it will never achieve that level.

Ultimately the push has to come at the youth level. Have to focus on developing the right skill sets of kids. Also, need to get away from the expensive pay-to-play system that ends up weeding out potential good players because they simply can't afford to play on the club teams. I've seen some changes in that over the years, but it needs to continue.

The problem is that the MLS is not a developmental league, though the USMNT treated it as such in the past. It is a 'pass-through' league where players hoping for something better come to see if they can stand out and get noticed. Our college system is a joke and was never intended to develop talent. It exists to win conference championships for the school. It is where kids go who aren't drawing pro interest. If the MLS is relying on that for talent, they are truly screwed. The only way the MLS becomes relevant is by aligning itself with foreign clubs and developing their talent. Why can't Atlanta United align with Benfica? That is never going to happen due to the inflated view the MLS has of itself.

The USMNT has done a good job this past WC cycle getting players with US ties playing in Europe on board and relying less on the MLS. The problem is guys like Berhalter have no idea how to handle that level of talent and there is probably no shortage of professional jealousy on his part as a former player. With better talent comes bigger egos and we need a coach that can command their respect, not stir up problems rooted in ego on the eve of a WC.

 

[Flamma]

We've had a miracle on ice. Is a miracle on pitch too much to ask for?

 

[atlantacowboy]

We've had a miracle on ice. Is a miracle on pitch too much to ask for?

Its very different. The US hockey team was college amateurs most of whom were headed to the NHL which is the best hockey league in the world. So, the top tier talent was there. It was just young and inexperienced on the international level. The USSR were NHL level talent disguised as amateurs b/c they couldn't leave the USSR and play abroad at the time. So, it was more evenly matched than you might think.

Soccer is totally different. There is no top tier soccer talent in the US. It is in Europe. It is not home grown. Our best players have to to go there to learn to play the game at a higher level and there aren't nearly enough of them to produce a truly elite talent. Our best so far is pulisic who left the US at 16 to move to Germany. As good as he is, he is not good enough to make the national teams of England, france, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, and would be a marginal player on many others. So, the rift in talent between us and the top is huge.

Dont let the scores fool you. 1-0 in soccer can be a dominating performance by one side or a closely fought battle.

 

[Flamma]

Its very different. The US hockey team was college amateurs most of whom were headed to the NHL which is the best hockey league in the world. So, the top tier talent was there. It was just young and inexperienced on the international level. The USSR were NHL level talent disguised as amateurs b/c they couldn't leave the USSR and play abroad at the time. So, it was more evenly matched than you might think.

Soccer is totally different. There is no top tier soccer talent in the US. It is in Europe. It is not home grown. Our best players have to to go there to learn to play the game at a higher level and there aren't nearly enough of them to produce a truly elite talent. Our best so far is pulisic who left the US at 16 to move to Germany. As good as he is, he is not good enough to make the national teams of England, france, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, and would be a marginal player on many others. So, the rift in talent between us and the top is huge.

I agree with you 100%. My post was slightly in jest. The difference is almost astronomical. Not only is what you said true, but it's only one game. A weaker US team would have to repeat that multiple times to reach the WC finals. Like Morocco beating Portugal. Now do it again against France, then again in the finals.

The one thing that gave me a little hope is that our opponents didn't dominate as much possession as they did in past cups.

 

[atlantacowboy]

I agree with you 100%. My post was slightly in jest. The difference is almost astronomical. Not only is what you said true, but it's only one game. A weaker US team would have to repeat that multiple times to reach the WC finals. Like Morocco beating Portugal. Now do it again against France, then again in the finals.

The one thing that gave me a little hope is that our opponents didn't dominate as much possession as they did in past cups.

Our possessions are sloppy and meandering. The back line has no idea how to move the ball forward. We get more possession b/c we have some really good athletes chasing down balls. Tyler Adams was a machine and a very good player as is Musah. They just lack creativity.

 

[Flamma]

Our possessions are sloppy and meandering. The back line has no idea how to move the ball forward. We get more possession b/c we have some really good athletes chasing down balls. Tyler Adams was a machine and a very good player as is Musah. They just lack creativity.

Absolutely. We had chances, but not really chances. We didn't do anything with the ball when we were in range. I saw that. But after watching 1994, and 2006, and even 2010, I'll take it. But you're right. our actual execution while around the box was sad. Still better than what I've seen in the past. Not counting 2002.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Absolutely. We had chances, but not really chances. We didn't do anything with the ball when we were in range. I saw that. But after watching 1994, and 2006, and even 2010, I'll take it. But you're right. our actual execution while around the box was sad. Still better than what I've seen in the past. Not counting 2002.

There is no question the talent level on the team is better now that its ever been. Berhalter just doesn't know what to do with it. He's got 2 of our most coveted players riding the pine for most of the tournament. I think we can look a lot better with what we have in a better system with a better coach.

 

[Flamma]

There is no question the talent level on the team is better now that its ever been. Berhalter just doesn't know what to do with it. He's got 2 of our most coveted players riding the pine for most of the tournament. I think we can look a lot better with what we have in a better system with a better coach.

Yeah, which is why this was really disappointing to me. To watch them fall so easily. I've been around the leaner days. And coach being the problem is not the first time it's been brought up. Is 2026 in the US?

 

[joseephuss]

Yeah, which is why this was really disappointing to me. To watch them fall so easily. I've been around the leaner days. And coach being the problem is not the first time it's been brought up. Is 2026 in the US?

Yes, the 2026 WC will be played in the U.S., Canada and Mexico. The final match will be played at Cowboys Stadium, which I found quite surprising. A few games have been played there, but the field conditions were always highly criticized after each match. I suppose they will get a better level of grass in there or import it in sooner so it can get established. Maybe not. The fields in Qatar haven't seemed top quality, either. FIFA just want their money.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Yes, the 2026 WC will be played in the U.S., Canada and Mexico. The final match will be played at Cowboys Stadium, which I found quite surprising. A few games have been played there, but the field conditions were always highly criticized after each match. I suppose they will get a better level of grass in there or import it in sooner so it can get established. Maybe not. The fields in Qatar haven't seemed top quality, either. FIFA just want their money.

The grass field at ATT is coming as well as the other WC sites. There is no choice. FIFA won't tolerate sloppy field conditions either. This fits nicely with the NFL PA push for grass fields too.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Yeah, which is why this was really disappointing to me. To watch them fall so easily. I've been around the leaner days. And coach being the problem is not the first time it's been brought up. Is 2026 in the US?

The best coach we have had is Klinsman who clashed with the USMNT bureaucracy. He was trying to get them out of bed with the MLS and focus on developing talent in Europe. He's the reason guys like Pulsic and Reyna are in Germany.

Berhalter was a terrible hire as he had no managing experience prior to his hire by the USMNT. He had a very short , undistinguished pro career as a player. He was a hire out of the blue.

Personally, I would LOVE to see Klinsman get a shot with this talent base.

 

[Sarek]

Messi going to the finals!

 

[joseephuss]

The grass field at ATT is coming as well as the other WC sites. There is no choice. FIFA won't tolerate sloppy field conditions either. This fits nicely with the NFL PA push for grass fields too.

Obviously. They just need to do a better with the grass fields they put into Cowboys Stadium than they have done in the past. Maybe not hire the same people who have done it in the past because there have been plenty complaints about the grass fields that have been used.

 

[Flamma]

This will be the second time in the last three cups that Argentina made the finals. Yet I thought they had better teams after they lost the WC to Germany back in 1990, than they did during the Messi era. But no WC appearances. I guess it's all relative to the competition.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Obviously. They just need to do a better with the grass fields they put into Cowboys Stadium than they have done in the past. Maybe not hire the same people who have done it in the past because there have been plenty complaints about the grass fields that have been used.

I'm sure they will b/c they have to.......AND it might be a permenent change instead of a temp one.

 

[atlantacowboy]

This will be the second time in the last three cups that Argentina made the finals. Yet I thought they had better teams after they lost the WC to Germany back in 1990, than they did during the Messi era. But no WC appearances. I guess it's all relative to the competition.

It's pretty amazing that Paulo Dybala is at the end of the bench and Laturo Martinez is just a guy on that team. Either would be the greatest player the US has ever fielded. I've been reminded during this world cup that best collections of talent don't always win. There is always a Croatia or a Morocco that doesn't seem to belong on paper.

 

[atlantacowboy]

With the FIFA World Cup starting next week, I think it's time to have a thread for our thoughts leading up to it and to discuss things during the matches. Of course, I'm going for England and the US. Here is my bracket for who I think advances to the Group 16:

Group A: Netherlands and Senegal (other nations in the group are Qatar and Ecuador) - nearly switched Senegal for Ecuador, but I feel confident about Senegal advancing and Mane is a world class- enough player to get them through.

Group B: England and USA (Other nations are Iran and Wales) - pretty easy this on paper. I don't think Iran advance, and Gareth Bale hasn't played a full match in a while, and he's Wales's best player, though Kieffer Moore is a good striker too (I'm a Bournemouth supporter haha).

Group C: Argentina and Mexico (other nations: Saudi Arabia and Poland) - pretty easy this too on paper.

Group D: France and Australia (other nations are Denmark and Tunisia) - France is winning this group. No question, they're the class of this group. Second place is tricky. I nearly put Denmark in because of Christian Erickson, but I think Australia are a consistent enough squad that they will finish second.

Group E (Group of Death): Germany and Japan (other nations Spain and Costa Rica) - providing an explanation here. Germany is the class of the group imo. I think they have one of the most complete teams this year. I have Japan going second because they always are sneaky good in WC play. They don't normally advance beyond the Quarter Finals, but you can usually count on them to finish 2nd and be in the Group 16.

Group F: Belgium and Croatia (other nations being Canada and Morocco) - Canada has done well to get to the WC, but I think Belgium and Croatia are better and advance.

I think the Semifinals will be Brazil, France, Germany, and Argentina with the Final being France and Germany. I think the result will be Germany 1-0.

How about for you all. Who do you think is winning the WC? Who are you cheering for? Who do you think is advancing from the groups?

This aged VERY well. Good job dude. You got 14 out 16 and 2 of 4 semifinalists.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

This aged VERY well. Good job dude. You got 14 out 16 and 2 of 4 semifinalists.

Thank you very much! I had no idea though that Morocco would be as formidable as they've been. I thought Belgium would go through, but they were the biggest bottlers of the tourny. It's amazing considering that they have the two best players on Manchester City, and they completely bottled the tourny. I do wonder what would happen if Belgium hasn't been the ultimate bottlers. But, on the other hand, I was one of the few people to call Australia going through, which I was delighted to see.

 

[StylisticS]

That was exactly the issue. Klinsman butted heads too much with the US culture, especially when it came to the MLS. The US needs a foreign manager, which is why I suggested Rooney. However, the US isn't going to improve until the US realises that it can't treat football like it's an American sport. The US must improve it's outlook on the sport before the US can even think about reaching the Quarter Finals and beyond. As you also correctly stated, loading up on the MLS players and alienating young stars will haunt the US. Part of the reason the US missed the WC in 2018 was because the entire side played in the MLS.

Brazil and Argentina understands this. I looked at Argentina's roster and only one of their players are domestic and that player is a backup goalkeeper. Everybody else is in Europe. Brazil is similar. Only a couple are domestic but the entire starting lineup is European. US must get more players to Europe. They are starting to do that but this has to increase.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Brazil and Argentina understands this. I looked at Argentina's roster and only one of their players are domestic and that player is a backup goalkeeper. Everybody else is in Europe. Brazil is similar. Only a couple are domestic but the entire starting lineup is European. US must get more players to Europe. They are starting to do that but this has to increase.

Definitely, and, at the very least, the US should also try to get some players to some South American sides as well. Both South America and Europe are good places to send players.