2nd & 19 vs 3rd & 7

gimmesix

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
Messages
39,700
Reaction score
36,786
It was 3rd and long I get why he went with that. Why give them 2 chances? For me the bigger issue was that play call on 3rd and 2.
I think this was really the only thinking. One shot vs. two when we were having trouble with Seattle's downfield passing. My rule of thumb is if the penalty yardage more than doubles the non-penalty yardage then you take it. Seattle gets an extra down but it also gets 12 more yards to make, so that's better than one down and 7.
 

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,389
Reaction score
22,782
Declined holding penalty means the play stands. Seattle gained 2 yards
Thing is I thought they gave the Seahawks a VERY favorable spot on that play. Seemed to me watching it life that the guy basically slid the last couple of yards after being tackled. Buy they seem to do that a lot against us. That one where they gave Hurts like 2 extra yards on a slide still burns my hiney.
 

Crown Royal

Insulin Beware
Messages
14,229
Reaction score
6,383
Analytics tells you that kicking the FG to go from a 3-point lead to a 6-point lead is the worst thing you can possibly do.
There's a few reasons why.
  • Kicking the FG means you're passing on the chance to pick up the 1st down and win the game.
  • A team that's down 3 will play conservatively if and when they reach FG range: they play for OT, which still gives you a 50% chance of winning.
  • A team that's down 6 doesn't have that luxury, so they will go all out to score a TD which will win it for them in regulation. The odds of scoring that TD are higher than the odds of (FG) * (winning in OT).
This is my thinking as well. I thought that was two down territory no matter what.
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
42,008
Reaction score
28,629
I can make a better decision.

Accept the penalty, and push them back 10 yards. See that wasn’t so hard.
Nice try FF boy.. go back to madden...

real Pro coaches make these decisions under fire and for good reason, not your business. 3rd and 7-8 yards should be easy stop for a good D AT HOME , blame MM for DQ bad defense, sure.. :facepalm:

MM showed some trust , he hoped to take and extra play off their backs and said go stop them. didnt happen. his play calling all night was to protect the defense, instead going for that 4th and two which great executed and designed call, oops CD dropped it..Being aggressive on the TD throw instead of burning clock on the last FG, all that was the mistrust in the D, didn't want to set up the FG, wanted the TD, needed more points and went after them.. i had zero issues with those calls i get there was a traditional conservative way it typically is called but this wasn't that type of game.

this doesn't happen every game.. let me know when you become a professional.... since your not, i'll take his word for it.. I get it maybe you need help in the inner workings of a chess game in live need to make a decision in a tenth of second. He did what he felt was right for the team.. DQ d has been a giant letdown in all 3 losses and in many games and will change the way coaches call plays and in situational football;

OK mayor of fake town, Mr internet coach.. lmao..
 

lkelly

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,948
Reaction score
6,404
I'm sure it is factored into the data. But yes, if you believe your chances of committing one are higher than average, that will change your calculus, probably in favor of declining the penalty.
I was mostly joking because Dallas’ penalty frequency is so absurd.
 

TwentyOne

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,540
Reaction score
5,187
Did McCarthy address this decision in his presser? I could be wrong but I just don’t get it. Even if you have the 85 Bears defense, it still doesn’t make sense to me. Did the mathematicians up in the booth make this decision for McCarthey?
LOL.

Yes what a strange decission. Especially after they completed a long 3rd down before that.
 

DCBoysfan

Hardwork and Dedication
Messages
7,260
Reaction score
3,568
Nice try FF boy.. go back to madden...

real Pro coaches make these decisions under fire and for good reason, not your business. 3rd and 7-8 yards should be easy stop for a good D AT HOME , blame MM for DQ bad defense, sure.. :facepalm:

MM showed some trust , he hoped to take and extra play off their backs and said go stop them. didnt happen. his play calling all night was to protect the defense, instead going for that 4th and two which great executed and designed call, oops CD dropped it..Being aggressive on the TD throw instead of burning clock on the last FG, all that was the mistrust in the D, didn't want to set up the FG, wanted the TD, needed more points and went after them.. i had zero issues with those calls i get there was a traditional conservative way it typically is called but this wasn't that type of game.

this doesn't happen every game.. let me know when you become a professional.... since your not, i'll take his word for it.. I get it maybe you need help in the inner workings of a chess game in live need to make a decision in a tenth of second. He did what he felt was right for the team.. DQ d has been a giant letdown in all 3 losses and in many games and will change the way coaches call plays and in situational football;

OK mayor of fake town, Mr internet coach.. lmao..
You did a lot of writing to try and make a point on a strategy that DIDN’T WORK.

I don’t need to be a professional coach to have an opinion on a bad coaching move, that again - DIDN’T WORK.

Big Mac tried to be smart and it didn’t work.

Accept the L and and move on, and I happen to be an excellent internet coach, one of the best actually. :lmao::laugh:
 

Amarillofan82

Well-Known Member
Messages
968
Reaction score
894
That was the biggest and weirdest bonehead decision. Under no circumstances should you stop the clock there. Honestly I would have rather run it on 3rd and 3 and if I got even 2 yards, I'm going for it on 4th and 1 and letting the clock go waaaay down.
If they don't make it on 4th down the clock stops for turnover on downs. I definitely would have ran it or easy screen pass on 3rd down though.
 

buybuydandavis

Well-Known Member
Messages
24,332
Reaction score
21,337
Did McCarthy address this decision in his presser? I could be wrong but I just don’t get it. Even if you have the 85 Bears defense, it still doesn’t make sense to me. Did the mathematicians up in the booth make this decision for McCarthey?
It would be interesting to see how they modeled it, but I'd take the 2nd and 19.

7 yards is so hard to get, but more than 12 on 2nd isn't?

If you don't make more than 12 on 2nd, you're in a worse position than McCarthy handed you.
 

Flamma

Well-Known Member
Messages
24,112
Reaction score
20,680
there is no discerning difference between 2nd and 19 If they get 10 on the next play and then it's third and nine or less etc.. he figured he'd give the defense a shot to stop him on one instead of two plays.. it's not our fault or his that the defense was that bad. easily giving up 3rd and 8s is not something to brag about, BUT many coaches would be confident doing just that,,. 3rd and 7 0r 8 at home with this rep this d HAD should be an easy decision.. but hey some of you think you can make better decisions and you think that they would pick it up anyway, or wouldn't? how do you know.. they were moving the ball at will??
I agree to some extent. Coaches make this type of decision frequently. But 3rd and 7 over 2nd and 19? That's a stretch. They'd have to get 12 yards just to get back to 3rd and 7. If it was 3rd and 10+, I can see it. But not 3rd and 7.
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
42,008
Reaction score
28,629
You did a lot of writing to try and make a point on a strategy that DIDN’T WORK.

I don’t need to be a professional coach to have an opinion on a bad coaching move, that again - DIDN’T WORK.

Big Mac tried to be smart and it didn’t work.

Accept the L and and move on, and I happen to be an excellent internet coach, one of the best actually. :lmao::laugh:
I use talk to text and so it's not writing..... ohh it worked for me and yes it did work for MM,

THEY WON THE GAME! wow too easy,.. i'm telling you in some battles in games calls for coach to be super aggressive and i can see why.

oh wait a minute, it did work they won the game.. ohh wait a minute it worked they won the game.

did you turn the game off and go to sleep and forgot that they won the game. this aggressive go against the norm is not new to college or the pros... so many times they go for it on 4th and short that deep knowing the d is having issues,

actually, it was a perfect play call. It Was open , perfect blocks, perfect throw and it was dropped...that's all that was wrong with the call, Lamb dropped it..

mike McCarthy & the dallas cowboys won and i won, so you accept your L

got it? your argument is moot they won the damn game, take the L..,

the irony and thinking that you won when the game worked out exactly how it should have. THEY WON. they went into the game wanting to win it they won it... the egomaniacal fan base is funny ,not in haha way but to question play calls in a win..lmao.. you were not there in the moment, he was he made the call they won the game..
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
42,008
Reaction score
28,629
If they don't make it on 4th down the clock stops for turnover on downs. I definitely would have ran it or easy screen pass on 3rd down though.
they were not trying to stop the clock, they were being aggressive they were looking to get 7... the defense sucked and we're talking about mike McCarthy

dan quinn's game plans were horrible and they were lucky to win the game. they've been horrible the three losses were on dan Quinn and the D

mike mccarthy's being questioned after a WIN the way the defense was playing and he couldn't trust them its comical this fan base didn't understand int he heat of battle MM threw out the normal "whats the right call in that situation" and went with what the game flow says , ie try and not put it back in the hands of the d or get 3 , wanted 7 and went for it.. wanted first down on 4th and 2 and went for it..

blame DQ for his new roid Marinelli defense costing us games, playing far too much man and forcing MM to make some against the grain play calls..that is a fact,

the biggest let down the biggest under achieving group on this team right now is defense. its DQ its not just bad its being covered up as if its not having even in games we win handedly like Carolina and NY and Washington, we saw a lot of these long drives being walked down the field for scores or eating up clock..

so want to question play calls, designs and schemes', DQ front and center the D has underperformed what MM thought he had going into the season..He flipped the conservative Offense he designed to help the defense he thought could be the hold teams under 19 or less and instead has to score 30+ to win. Sound familiar, yup Nolan and Marinelli.

its boom or bust opportunistic d that has been boat raced far too many times..
 

Creeper

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,481
Reaction score
19,622
I would have made it 2 and 19 because it would mean Seattle might hold the ball longer and give the defense a chance to disrupt the pass. An incompletion would make it 3rd and 19. A sack would make it 3rd and longer. Chances are they would throw underneath and maybe get 10-12 yards making it 3rd and 7. But the odds are you would be no worse off than taking the 3rd and 7 in the first place.

But as we saw, Seattle kept converting 3rd downs anyway.

I though the Dallas defense did an awful job of tackling the receivers catching the ball underneath and squeezing through for the 1st down markers. So many times the DBs missed the initial tackle allowing the receiver to gain an extra 7 to 10 yards.

Which reminds me, Donovan Wilson is not the guy he was last year. He has been very underwhelming so far this season.
 

Coogiguy03

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,642
Reaction score
21,593
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Let's play devils advocate, they need 19 yards and we give up 23+ yards??? We won the game, things work either way in this league!
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
47,964
Reaction score
50,815
It was 3rd and long I get why he went with that. Why give them 2 chances? For me the bigger issue was that play call on 3rd and 2.
Yeah, I thought it was a great decision. 3rd and 7 is what you aim for when their O is starting a series. Methinks there's a lot of hindsight going on in this thread.
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
42,008
Reaction score
28,629
I would have made it 2 and 19 because it would mean Seattle might hold the ball longer and give the defense a chance to disrupt the pass. An incompletion would make it 3rd and 19. A sack would make it 3rd and longer. Chances are they would throw underneath and maybe get 10-12 yards making it 3rd and 7. But the odds are you would be no worse off than taking the 3rd and 7 in the first place.

But as we saw, Seattle kept converting 3rd downs anyway.

I though the Dallas defense did an awful job of tackling the receivers catching the ball underneath and squeezing through for the 1st down markers. So many times the DBs missed the initial tackle allowing the receiver to gain an extra 7 to 10 yards.

Which reminds me, Donovan Wilson is not the guy he was last year. He has been very underwhelming so far this season.
exactly why he made that call.. agree with the rest Ds been underperforming and underachieving.. . if this was rod Marinelli or mike nolan he'd be getting roasted right now. DQ need to make better GPs and use less man and stop having his DBs out on islands in man... far too many long drives this year, many ending in points.

DW regressed some sure DQ has as well.. :popcorn:
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
47,964
Reaction score
50,815
BTW, there is no wrong decision in this case.

Man, if you can't stop 3rd and 7, you're going to lose a ton of games.
 

conner01

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,844
Reaction score
26,537
It was a decided vote of "no confidence" in the defense, which was embarrassing last night.
To me 3rd and 9 is easier than 2nd and 19. I get he had no confidence and it was warranted since they ate up our DB all night
 

DCBoysfan

Hardwork and Dedication
Messages
7,260
Reaction score
3,568
I use talk to text and so it's not writing..... ohh it worked for me and yes it did work for MM,

THEY WON THE GAME! wow too easy,.. i'm telling you in some battles in games calls for coach to be super aggressive and i can see why.

oh wait a minute, it did work they won the game.. ohh wait a minute it worked they won the game.

did you turn the game off and go to sleep and forgot that they won the game. this aggressive go against the norm is not new to college or the pros... so many times they go for it on 4th and short that deep knowing the d is having issues,

actually, it was a perfect play call. It Was open , perfect blocks, perfect throw and it was dropped...that's all that was wrong with the call, Lamb dropped it..

mike McCarthy & the dallas cowboys won and i won, so you accept your L

got it? your argument is moot they won the damn game, take the L..,

the irony and thinking that you won when the game worked out exactly how it should have. THEY WON. they went into the game wanting to win it they won it... the egomaniacal fan base is funny ,not in haha way but to question play calls in a win..lmao.. you were not there in the moment, he was he made the call they won the game..
Don’t deflect, we talking about the decision on that ONE play, not the outcome of the game. The call was wrong, it didn’t work because Seattle got the first down and went on to score.

So instead of two chances to get 19 yds they got once chance to get 7, how are you not comprehending this?

You really are embarrassing yourself standing on this hill. :facepalm:
 
Top