3-4 or 4-3

richzre

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3-4 or 4-3, which is harder to convert to. With all this talk about how difficult it's going to be for the Cowboys to switch from the 4-3 to the 3-4, is it any harder for a team like the Ravens (from what I'm hearing) that are switching from their 3-4 back to a 4-3 defense.

The point is ...is it harder for a team to make the switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 or the other way around....just wondering since the media is making this an issue.
 

blindzebra

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It depends on your personnel.

If you are a 4-3 team that is thin in quality lineman, but have some size up front and good depth/size at LB it should not be too difficult to go 3-4.

If you are a 3-4 team and you lost some size and depth at LB, the switch won't be that difficult, but it may take some time to get quicker up front.

Dallas has several proven players better suited for a 4-3, lacks size at 3 spots, has questionable depth at LB, and will need several rookies to play well, which is why you are seeing so many articles about the 3-4 struggling.
 

NorTex

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Every situation is different.

However, the San Diego Chargers went to the 3-4 last year, without a lot of top notch "talent" and did okay.

As far as mental difficulty goes, Roy Williams just said that it was NOT going to be hard for the defense to switch from the 4-3 to 3-4.

Each player has to focus on his job. The rest will take care of itself.

If you're a lineman in the 3-4 you're not going to hurt your brain learning what to do. Its pretty simple.

Linebackers have more to learn, but still not that difficult.

The secondary won't have a hard time learning the system.

It's not like an offense where there are so many plays to learn and memorize. We have smart enough players on defense to make the adjustment without a problem, IMO.
 

Compacity

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The Dallas Cowboys may have more value in Glover than James... cause James is the extra MLB....That's the real question... but you also got to ask yourself what is the advantages and disadvantages of 3-4 and 4-3...

4-3

Greg Ellis, La'Roi Glover, Jason Ferguson, Marcus Spears
Kevin Burnett, Dat Nguyen, Demarcus Ware
Terrance Newman, Anthony Henry
Roy Williams, Keith Davis

3-4

Greg Ellis, Jason Fergurson, Marcus Spears
Kevin Burnett, Bradie James, Dat Nguyen, Demarcus Ware
Terrance Newman, Anthony Henry
Roy Williams, Keith Davis
 

blindzebra

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Compacity said:
The Dallas Cowboys may have more value in Glover than James... cause James is the extra MLB....That's the real question... but you also got to ask yourself what is the advantages and disadvantages of 3-4 and 4-3...

4-3

Greg Ellis, La'Roi Glover, Jason Ferguson, Marcus Spears
Kevin Burnett, Dat Nguyen, Demarcus Ware
Terrance Newman, Anthony Henry
Roy Williams, Keith Davis

3-4

Greg Ellis, Jason Fergurson, Marcus Spears
Kevin Burnett, Bradie James, Dat Nguyen, Demarcus Ware
Terrance Newman, Anthony Henry
Roy Williams, Keith Davis

It all comes down to who is better Glover or Shanle, James, Fowler, O'Neil or Goolsby?

Not a tough question IMO.

That 4-3 unit is bigger and just as fast as last year, and would hold up much better against the run than that 3-4 unit. I also think we'd get after the QB just as easily, and probably better with that 4-3 unit too.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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blindzebra said:
It all comes down to who is better Glover or Shanle, James, Fowler, O'Neil or Goolsby?

Not a tough question IMO.

That 4-3 unit is bigger and just as fast as last year, and would hold up much better against the run than that 3-4 unit. I also think we'd get after the QB just as easily, and probably better with that 4-3 unit too.

Its funny all this time people have been going overboard explaining to you what a defensive line rotation is and you still dont get it.

Sad really.

Glover will only play 60% of the snaps. It doesnt matter if its 4-3 3-4 or a 46.

You will see all of the following this season:

Ellis Glover Spears
Glover Ferguson Spears
Ellis Ferguson Glover
Ellis Ferguson Spears
Ellis Glover Ferguson Spears

You notice in all of those include Glover cept one.

Go ahead repeat yourself again. Its Glover or Shanle blah blah blah. Myopia is not a good thing.

What it should be is who is better Ferguson or Claybrooks cuase essentially Ferguson is taking Claybrooks spot in our ROTATION.
 

Garland powerplay

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The 3-4 can be disguised as a 4-3 w/ a standup blitzer coming unknowingly by the o-line. The linebackers have to be really good to be successful.
 

blindzebra

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
Its funny all this time people have been going overboard explaining to you what a defensive line rotation is and you still dont get it.

Sad really.

Glover will only play 60% of the snaps. It doesnt matter if its 4-3 3-4 or a 46.

You will see all of the following this season:

Ellis Glover Spears
Glover Ferguson Spears
Ellis Ferguson Glover
Ellis Ferguson Spears
Ellis Glover Ferguson Spears

You notice in all of those include Glover cept one.

Go ahead repeat yourself again. Its Glover or Shanle blah blah blah. Myopia is not a good thing.

What it should be is who is better Ferguson or Claybrooks cuase essentially Ferguson is taking Claybrooks spot in our ROTATION.

One BIG problem with your little breakdown, Glover ain't playing DE in either scheme. Not one source has put him at DE, that includes Parcells by the way, so for him to play 65-70% of the snaps would require either sticking him at NT in the base defense or playing a lot more 4-3 than some would want to admit.

Him playing a lot at NT is a mistake for two reasons. First he ain't anyway near big enough. Second than you are wasting Ferguson.

The rotation you should be seeing:

LDE Spears, Ellis, Canty, Coleman.

DT Ferguson, Carson, Spears, Ratliff

DT Glover, Ratliff, Spears, Carson

RDE Ellis, Canty, Ware

Base front 7 Spears, Ferguson, Glover, Ellis, Burnett, Nguyen, Ware.

Nickel Ellis, Spears, Glover, Ware, Burnett, Nguyen.
 

Garland powerplay

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Glover won the weightlifiting contest at the NFL competition so he is very strong & could handle NT.
 

blindzebra

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Garland powerplay said:
Glover won the weightlifiting contest at the NFL competition so he is very strong & could handle NT.

Big difference between benching 220 pounds and getting double teamed by 600 pounds of OL on every down.:rolleyes:
 

blindzebra

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Garland powerplay said:
while he's doubleteamed the linebacker is freed up to disrupt things.

Not if that double team pushes him right into that LB who makes the tackle 5 yards down field. The shear fact of getting doubled is not what a NT needs to do, that is a given. He needs to take on that double team and hold the point of attack.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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blindzebra said:
One BIG problem with your little breakdown, Glover ain't playing DE in either scheme. Not one source has put him at DE, that includes Parcells by the way, so for him to play 65-70% of the snaps would require either sticking him at NT in the base defense or playing a lot more 4-3 than some would want to admit.

Him playing a lot at NT is a mistake for two reasons. First he ain't anyway near big enough. Second than you are wasting Ferguson.

The rotation you should be seeing:

LDE Spears, Ellis, Canty, Coleman.

DT Ferguson, Carson, Spears, Ratliff

DT Glover, Ratliff, Spears, Carson

RDE Ellis, Canty, Ware

Base front 7 Spears, Ferguson, Glover, Ellis, Burnett, Nguyen, Ware.

Nickel Ellis, Spears, Glover, Ware, Burnett, Nguyen.

Glover siad that was the difference he was going to be playing some end too. I will find the article.

Hes played both NT and De in the 3-4 before.

When I find the article will you finally shut up aout this nonsense?
 

blindzebra

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
Glover siad that was the difference he was going to be playing some end too. I will find the article.

Hes played both NT and De in the 3-4 before.

When I find the article will you finally shut up aout this nonsense?

Why should I shut up about anything?

It's not nonsense when Shanle, James, Fowler, etc are not better than Ellis, Ferguson, or Spears either.

Don't like it, you know what part of my anatomy you can pucker up on.:jerk:
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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blindzebra said:
Why should I shut up about anything?

It's not nonsense when Shanle, James, Fowler, etc are not better than Ellis, Ferguson, or Spears either.

Don't like it, you know what part of my anatomy you can pucker up on.:jerk:

Because if there is a rotation then one of the players you keep saying are going to be forced out off the field by a LB are going to be off the field anyway.

Thus your POV makes no sense.

Its been explained to you several times yet you fail to acknowledge it just repeat yourself over and over again.

BTW if you want to go with thinly veiled insults like your last post i can play those games as well. I just tend to get a lot nastier.

Keep the insults out of it.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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PROOF THAT GLOVER WILL PLAY MORE THAN JUST NOSE TACKLE

Ill bold the salient point.

IRVING, Texas (AP) -- Jason Ferguson and Aaron Glenn know why they were brought to Dallas, and La'Roi Glover realizes he's going to have to be more flexible in a new defensive scheme.

And, now there's finally visible proof that the Cowboys are switching to a 3-4 defense, even if coach Bill Parcells hasn't confirmed they are. That's what they're practicing at the team's minicamp.

"That's what it is," new cornerback Anthony Henry said Saturday.

While still uncertain how much the Cowboys will use three-man fronts, it's clear they will play more of the defense that Parcells has preferred in the past but has never been standard for a Dallas coach.

That is obvious by not only what they're doing on the practice field, but the moves that have been made since last season.

Ferguson, a 305-pound defensive tackle, is a block-eating wide body that will fit nicely in the middle of a three-man front -- a spot he's played before even though not with the New York Jets last season.

Glenn is a cornerback who played last year in the 3-4 scheme in Houston, where he was for three seasons. He started his career with the New York Jets for eight seasons, some of that time with Parcells and a similar defense.

"It's a transition for everybody going from a 4-3 to a 3-4," Glenn said. "The terminology is simple for me. As far as binding with my teammates, that's the biggest thing to me."

The Cowboys used six of their eight draft picks last month on defensive players. Defenders DeMarcus Ware (6-foot-4, 251 pounds) and Marcus Spears (6-4, 307), the two players they got in the first 20 picks, are both perfect fits for the new scheme.

"These guys come from 3-4 schemes. A lot of these guys know more about 3-4 schemes than we do," Ferguson said. "It's going to be something to see."

Two seasons ago, the Cowboys were the NFL's top-ranked defense, allowing just 254 yards and 16.3 points per game. The numbers in both categories were up last year, to 330 yards and 25 points when Dallas went 6-10.

One of the offseason tasks Parcells gave to defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer was to get familiar with 3-4 defenses and be prepared for every eventuality. He told the players to expect changes.

With the addition of Ferguson and the formation switch, there will likely be less time on the field for Glover, a perennial Pro Bowl player.

"He'll be fine. I want him to play 65 percent, 60 percent of the time, right in there," Parcells said. "To me, I'm not worried about what anybody thinks as far as their role or playing time."

Defensive end Greg Ellis, who like Glover was on the field for most downs last season, also likely will have more breaks during games.

Still, the biggest change will be for Glover, who played in three-man formations for Oakland and New Orleans and knows what to expect.

"I'll be playing a lot of different positions, so you've got to learn," said Glover, who is going into his 10th NFL season. "Before you only had to learn one position, now you have to learn three, and maybe more if we do some different schemes."

Glover still hopes to be starting and ending games. If there's any reduction in time, he hopes it comes in the middle of games and understands some benefits.

"From the standpoint of our fourth quarter production, I think it will help us out, being able to make plays in the fourth quarter," Glover said. "It will help out to get a rest, get a blow. I obviously want to be a part of the first-team defense and in when the game is on the line. That's the way I'm going to approach that."

Notes: RB Julius Jones looks bigger, but says he's bulked up in the weight room instead of actually gaining weight. He said he weighs about 212 pounds. ... The morning practice started outside, but heavy rain forced the team to retreat to its "bubble" practice facility. ... The minicamp wraps up with one practice Sunday. There is then a week of on-field teaching, the last time the Cowboys will be on the field together until reporting to training camp in California in late July.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Well if hes going to be playing several different positions that takes out the only playing NT argument.

Got any other revalations for us BZ?

Also if you read the whole articles Glover goes on to say that he players seem revitalizedc by the switch.
 

blindzebra

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
Because if there is a rotation then one of the players you keep saying are going to be forced out off the field by a LB are going to be off the field anyway.

Thus your POV makes no sense.

Its been explained to you several times yet you fail to acknowledge it just repeat yourself over and over again.

BTW if you want to go with thinly veiled insults like your last post i can play those games as well. I just tend to get a lot nastier.

Keep the insults out of it.

Ooooh, cyber bully, I'm scared.

You imply I'm stupid not once but twice, you use terms like nonsense and tell me to shut up and I'm the one picking a fight?

What you fail to acknowledge is we have 3 good LBs, and two are rookies. We have the depth up front to rotate all the starters to keep them fresh. It's not my fault your comprehension skills are not good enough to see I have no problem with spelling Glover, or Ellis, Spears, Ferguson for that matter, if we are spelling them with a player that can get the job done.

IMO, I don't think we have the LBs to do that and have a solid defense. No matter who plays RDE we will be undersized there in a 3-4. Ferguson is light for a NT. Burnett/Singleton are lighter than Parcells likes for the strongside. Dat, and Shanle are both under 240, James flat out sucked last year.

Get it now?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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MORE PROOF THAT BZ IS WRONG

"I played both positions - end, nose and then we did some variation things with me in the two-technique and the three-technique," Glover said. "We played a lot of different things with it. I prefer the 4-3, obviously. But the defense is different now. You have to be a lot more patient in the 3-4."

One of Glover, Ellis, and Ferguson would have been sitting out any way.

So instead of your Glover versus Shanle garbage, the reality is that we are now talking about keeping a Claybrooks or a Carson or Coleman off the field.

At least James/Shanle actually make plays.

But really BZ i cant wait for more of your wonderful 'its like taking Glover off the field for Shanle' insight.

Maybe if you repeat it again someone will believe you this time.
 

blindzebra

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
PROOF THAT GLOVER WILL PLAY MORE THAN JUST NOSE TACKLE

Ill bold the salient point.



Well if hes going to be playing several different positions that takes out the only playing NT argument.

Got any other revalations for us BZ?

Also if you read the whole articles Glover goes on to say that he players seem revitalizedc by the switch.

Yep that clearly said he's playing 3-4 DE.:rolleyes:

Several, lets see:

1. 3 tech DT in 4-3

2. NT in 3-4 base.

3. DT in 4 man line pass situations.

4. NT in 3 man line pass situations.

5. DT in any 46 looks we may run.

Does 5 equal several?;)
 

blindzebra

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FuzzyLumpkins said:
MORE PROOF THAT BZ IS WRONG

"I played both positions - end, nose and then we did some variation things with me in the two-technique and the three-technique," Glover said. "We played a lot of different things with it. I prefer the 4-3, obviously. But the defense is different now. You have to be a lot more patient in the 3-4."

One of Glover, Ellis, and Ferguson would have been sitting out any way.

So instead of your Glover versus Shanle garbage, the reality is that we are now talking about keeping a Claybrooks or a Carson or Coleman off the field.

At least James/Shanle actually make plays.

But really BZ i cant wait for more of your wonderful 'its like taking Glover off the field for Shanle' insight.

Maybe if you repeat it again someone will believe you this time.

Quotes out of context, nice.

It kind of changes the meaning when you leave out the, "I played a lot of positions in New Orleans," that lead into the quote you highlighted.

You don't work for Fox News do you.:rolleyes:
 
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