38 million a year, what can that buy?

[montgod]

He can't really prevent a trade. He doesn't have final say. So if the Cowboys were to trade him and he refused to report, then he essentially forgoes a season. It's not like he can just sit around for two years right?

No, he's going off your initial post about trading Dak after two years. The Boys couldn't trade him and Dak wouldn't need to veto anything because he's a free agent after 2 years of franchising him - if they went that route. So after 2 years, he's gone regardless just like Cousins left the Skins.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No, he's going off your initial post about trading Dak after two years. The Boys couldn't trade him and Dak wouldn't need to veto anything because he's a free agent after 2 years of franchising him - if they went that route. So after 2 years, he's gone regardless just like Cousins left the Skins.

My initial post didn't suggest trading Dak after two years. It's trading Dak before you get to that point.

 

[Adreme]

He can't really prevent a trade. He doesn't have final say. So if the Cowboys were to trade him and he refused to report, then he essentially forgoes a season. It's not like he can just sit around for two years right?

He can wait to sign the tag until right before the season starts and nobody is going to want to trade for their starting QB, especially one not committed to a long term deal, right before the first game of the season. That is the sort of thing teams are locked into already. He loses no money waiting until after training camp so there is no reason for him to sign until after training camp, but the team loses the ability to get a good trade for him UNLESS its one he approves of and then he can sign the tag and then they can trade him.

 

[Adreme]

Ben and Brady are pocket passers. Rodgers is too. That's not Dak. Dak can not do what they do, he fits a different style of Offense. I'm not going to get down into the weeds on this. I don't see that for Dak and I don't believe it's wise to view his career in that light. He won't be as effective at 38/39 so rather then three premium deals, he's likely to only see two and the second will probably not be premium. The money will be good but the guaranteed money will not be nearly as good IMO. Other QBs can see three deals, he will see two IMO.

Rodgers is not really much of a pocket passer. He is much closer to Mahomes (which is how Rodgers kept getting hurt) in that can be a great pocket passer, but he likes to extend plays a LOT and throw on the run and get hit and get hurt and honestly those throws on the run are more dangerous to me then getting hit while running the football because your body is not positioned to take a hit.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He can wait to sign the tag until right before the season starts and nobody is going to want to trade for their starting QB, especially one not committed to a long term deal, right before the first game of the season. That is the sort of thing teams are locked into already. He loses no money waiting until after training camp so there is no reason for him to sign until after training camp, but the team loses the ability to get a good trade for him UNLESS its one he approves of and then he can sign the tag and then they can trade him.

As I said, I'd guess that the new CBA is going to address this. But aside from that, he still hurts himself IMO. New Offense, new HC, new personnel and he misses all of Training Camp, all of Pre-season and all of OTAs. That's not going to help him at all. What that's going to do is create an even bigger problem for him because Dak isn't a guy who can just come in and pick up a stick and run the table on you. He needs reps, he needs practice and his mechanics kinda go to crap if he doesn't continually work on his game. We've seen that before with him. So yeah, he could elect to do that but that, IMO, doesn't help him because in order for him to increase his value, he has to perform and continue to progress. He will be paid on what teams think he is capable of and if he doesn't show that, then there is no guarantee that anybody is going to be interested in paying Dak a record deal in two years.

But again, why would he do that? I mean, if the Cowboys are not going to pay him 40 and he gets a team that is willing to pay him that, then why would he reject anything? He can't force the team to pay him 40. If they know he will not leave, even if he gets his 40 deal, then why would the team pay him that? It's an unrealistic premise to work from.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Rodgers is not really much of a pocket passer. He is much closer to Mahomes (which is how Rodgers kept getting hurt) in that can be a great pocket passer, but he likes to extend plays a LOT and throw on the run and get hit and get hurt and honestly those throws on the run are more dangerous to me then getting hit while running the football because your body is not positioned to take a hit.

That's not true. I mean, he can certainly extend plays but he is a pocket passer. He can move but that's not what Rodgers wants to do in the NFL. Rodgers knows that the more times he breaks the pocket, the better chance of an injury and it's simple math on that deal. Dak can't be that guy because quite simply, he needs to run the ball in order to make teams play him honestly. He can't just do it with his arm and again, we've seen this from Dak. He needs to threaten the defense with the run.

 

[Adreme]

As I said, I'd guess that the new CBA is going to address this. But aside from that, he still hurts himself IMO. New Offense, new HC, new personnel and he misses all of Training Camp, all of Pre-season and all of OTAs. That's not going to help him at all. What that's going to do is create an even bigger problem for him because Dak isn't a guy who can just come in and pick up a stick and run the table on you. He needs reps, he needs practice and his mechanics kinda go to crap if he doesn't continually work on his game. We've seen that before with him. So yeah, he could elect to do that but that, IMO, doesn't help him because in order for him to increase his value, he has to perform and continue to progress. He will be paid on what teams think he is capable of and if he doesn't show that, then there is no guarantee that anybody is going to be interested in paying Dak a record deal in two years.

But again, why would he do that? I mean, if the Cowboys are not going to pay him 40 and he gets a team that is willing to pay him that, then why would he reject anything? He can't force the team to pay him 40. If they know he will not leave, even if he gets his 40 deal, then why would the team pay him that? It's an unrealistic premise to work from.

The new CBA addresses holdouts but Dak would not be holding out because until he signs the tag he is not a Cowboy and they cannot trade him because he is not a Cowboy. The CBA dealt with a case like Zeke holding out but Dak would not be holding out because he is not a Cowboy until he signs the contract (though the Cowboys still have to by rule reserve the cap space until he does sign the contract).

 

[Adreme]

That's not true. I mean, he can certainly extend plays but he is a pocket passer. He can move but that's not what Rodgers wants to do in the NFL. Rodgers knows that the more times he breaks the pocket, the better chance of an injury and it's simple math on that deal. Dak can't be that guy because quite simply, he needs to run the ball in order to make teams play him honestly. He can't just do it with his arm and again, we've seen this from Dak. He needs to threaten the defense with the run.

Dak was 8th in the NFL last year with 277 rushing yards. He only had 34 more rushing yards than both Carson Wentz and Ryan Fitzpatrick with especially the latter not really being a running QB. Dak did have 4900 passing yards which was 2nd in the NFL so he was clearly able to successfully pas the ball without having to actually run it.

 

[OmerV]

I would have said the same about Dak and yet, here we are.

The Cowboys feel he is their guy, and he hasn't been either a journeyman or been viewed by the Cowboys as a guy they have lost interest in, nor do I think the NFL as a whole views Dak that way. Obviously different people can have different opinions, but I think by and large Dak is considered a quality NFL starting QB.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The new CBA addresses holdouts but Dak would not be holding out because until he signs the tag he is not a Cowboy and they cannot trade him because he is not a Cowboy. The CBA dealt with a case like Zeke holding out but Dak would not be holding out because he is not a Cowboy until he signs the contract (though the Cowboys still have to by rule reserve the cap space until he does sign the contract).

I don't know what the CBA addresses, I've not seen it. If you know for a fact, please post it as it would be of interest to me.

The issue of players waiting till the very last minute to sign a contract and basically hurt the team and still get paid is what I am talking about. I would not be surprised to see provision added to prohibit that practice.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dak was 8th in the NFL last year with 277 rushing yards. He only had 34 more rushing yards than both Carson Wentz and Ryan Fitzpatrick with especially the latter not really being a running QB. Dak did have 4900 passing yards which was 2nd in the NFL so he was clearly able to successfully pas the ball without having to actually run it.

That's not the same thing as a pocket passer. A pocket passer is able to make teams pay with their arms and often lack the ability to break the pocket and put pressure on the defense by running the ball. That's not Dak.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Cowboys feel he is their guy, and he hasn't been either a journeyman or been viewed by the Cowboys as a guy they have lost interest in, nor do I think the NFL as a whole views Dak that way. Obviously different people can have different opinions, but I think by and large Dak is considered a quality NFL starting QB.

But you see what you are doing here? You are suggesting that Dak is not viewed in that light while covertly suggesting that Keenum is. I am not at all sure that Case Keenum is viewed that way by the NFL either. I honestly don't know what the separation is between Keenum and Dak.

 

[OmerV]

But you see what you are doing here? You are suggesting that Dak is not viewed in that light while covertly suggesting that Keenum is. I am not at all sure that Case Keenum is viewed that way by the NFL either. I honestly don't know what the separation is between Keenum and Dak.

I didn't think what I said about Keenum was covert at all. It certainly wasn't meant to be. He's been with 5 teams in his 8 year career - 4 different teams in the last 4 years. It would be hard to find anyone that fits the "journeyman" label more than that..

 

[Adreme]

I don't know what the CBA addresses, I've not seen it. If you know for a fact, please post it as it would be of interest to me.

The issue of players waiting till the very last minute to sign a contract and basically hurt the team and still get paid is what I am talking about. I would not be surprised to see provision added to prohibit that practice.

Things involving the franchise tag are not really different because a tagged is NOT under contract and they are still free to sign the contract whenever they want just as the team is free to pull the tag at any given time.

The thing that I am referring to is from this article https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...osal-players-voting-deal-plus-biggest-changes

Basically the summary is that if a player misses camp who is under contract then they lose the right to an accrued season BUT it does not affect franchise tagged players. On the other hand due to the wording, as ESPN notes, it also might not have helped solve the Zeke issue because he was holding out under his rookie deal.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I didn't think what I said about Keenum was covert at all. It certainly wasn't meant to be. He's been with 5 teams in his 8 year career - 4 different teams in the last 4 years. It would be hard to find anyone that fits the "journeyman" label more than that..

No, I'm not saying it was intentional, or otherwise but think about it. What you are saying is that Dak is worth that but it implies that Keenum is not. I don't know what is fact here, to be honest. I think the difference between Keenum and Dak, in the eyes of personnel guys is not as far apart as some might think. You add in what all of us would think Keenum might cost and I don't know if that wouldn't be viewed as more of a value? I don't know that one.

 

[Qcard]

So with Dak's new request of 40 million per year vs 2 million a year for Rush, what can that buy in FA?

2 top tier DT's and a safety?

1 top tier DT, safety and TE?

Basically 3 top tier players (~12.5 million per player).

What would your formula be?

Yeah.... that's like previous CBA salary portions...
Owners make more (sponsors, tv etc) players make more...wake up brother

 

[OmerV]

No, I'm not saying it was intentional, or otherwise but think about it. What you are saying is that Dak is worth that but it implies that Keenum is not. I don't know what is fact here, to be honest. I think the difference between Keenum and Dak, in the eyes of personnel guys is not as far apart as some might think. You add in what all of us would think Keenum might cost and I don't know if that wouldn't be viewed as more of a value? I don't know that one.

I suspect your opinion of how the NFL's Keenum may be a little off base. Otherwise, why wouldn't a team commit to more than 1 year with him?

Of course, I suppose you might think that outside of the Cowboys no other NFL team would want Dak on a multi year deal either, and if so we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I suspect your opinion of how the NFL's Keenum may be a little off base. Otherwise, why wouldn't a team commit to more than 1 year with him?

Of course, I suppose you might think that outside of the Cowboys no other NFL team would want Dak on a multi year deal either, and if so we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

In terms of the Skins, because there plan was to bridge and eventually have Haskins as your starter. It's the same reason we would bring in a guy like him. For Keenum, he does it because he is betting on himself. He wants a short term deal that allows him to move on from a bad team or get another big payday. Keep in mind, Keenum was making money off of his Denver Contract as well last year. I understand it.

On the question of other teams wanting Dak on a multi year deal, I think it depends on the terms of the deal. I think lots of teams might be interested in Dak on a multi year deal but I don't think there are a lot of teams out there who would be interested in a 3 year, 40 mil deal for Dak, on top of giving up draft choices. No, I don't think there are a lot of those teams out there.

 

[montgod]

In terms of the Skins, because there plan was to bridge and eventually have Haskins as your starter. It's the same reason we would bring in a guy like him. For Keenum, he does it because he is betting on himself. He wants a short term deal that allows him to move on from a bad team or get another big payday. Keep in mind, Keenum was making money off of his Denver Contract as well last year. I understand it.

On the question of other teams wanting Dak on a multi year deal, I think it depends on the terms of the deal. I think lots of teams might be interested in Dak on a multi year deal but I don't think there are a lot of teams out there who would be interested in a 3 year, 40 mil deal for Dak, on top of giving up draft choices. No, I don't think there are a lot of those teams out there.

I still believe the teams with the most cap space (MIA, IND, TB) this offseason would definitely bite on giving up that $40mill plus giving up draft pieces in order to get an 'established' QB. However, the Boys being able to navigate that seamlessly and drafting and/or signing a replacement QB in the meanwhile is my main concern. Dak or Bridgewater/2 first rounders (one being Tua)? If that's feasible, would the Boys be better or worse? That would be best case scenario of course if a trade could happen. I don't see that happening.

 

[Blackspider214]

So with Dak's new request of 40 million per year vs 2 million a year for Rush, what can that buy in FA?

2 top tier DT's and a safety?

1 top tier DT, safety and TE?

Basically 3 top tier players (~12.5 million per player).

What would your formula be?

1. Show me a source of this $40mill request. I want to see this. A reputable source, not some janky fan page on Facebook where I saw it. Not one media person reported it. No one on Twitter who gets paid to cover the team. No one on radio. No national media. Why? Because it isn't true.

2. Who cares what else it could buy. Cooper Rush is a terrible QB and does not matter which free agents you get. You can not win in the NFL with a talent like Cooper Rush.