3rd String QB, My Convoluted Thoughts

[superpunk]

I'd bet money I have seen more of him than you have.

I'm sure we all saw alot of Ryan Leaf Washington football and Drew Henson Michigan football, too. That didn't really amount to much in the NFL. In his NFL action so far, there is nothing to be excited about. Decent arm strength, can move, was so bad at making decisions that the Dolphins decided they'd rather lose with Lemon than lose with Beck.

There's not much there. Certainly nothing more than we could get from a 23 year old draft pick in a year or two.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

This is a little bit misleading Michael. If not for his Navy commitment, no way Roger Staubach lasted until the 10th round. Eddie LeBaron played 7 years at Washington before he came to Dallas, and was brought to Dallas only to see the team through its early building years, not to win a championship. He was 4-21-1 as a Dallas QB.

So, if you look at it from the standpoint of QB's who did or did not pan out, I would say Morton, Aikman and Staubach were viewed as 1ST ROUND TALENTS, based on their college days, then Meredith and White 3rd round, and then Romo out of nowhere.

Over the course of time anomalies will develop both on the high & low end.

For every guy drafted in the 10th round who has first round talent you've got a bunch of guys drafted 1 & 2, who have no talent whatsoever.

 

[Hostile]

I'm sure we all saw alot of Ryan Leaf Washington football and Drew Henson Michigan football, too. That didn't really amount to much in the NFL. In his NFL action so far, there is nothing to be excited about. Decent arm strength, can move, was so bad at making decisions that the Dolphins decided they'd rather lose with Lemon than lose with Beck.

There's not much there. Certainly nothing more than we could get from a 23 year old draft pick in a year or two.

You adivsed me to watch some of his football. As if you know something I don't because you have done that.

Spin controlling it beyond that isn't going to work.

 

[superpunk]

My over all point is...Bollinger is a JAG and if we add him we're aren't moving forward. Not in 2008 or beyond. All we are accomplishing is that someone else who is viable to help in 2008 is going to get cut to make room.

Stand pat or improve. Don't go backwards.

So our options are:

Sign JAG like Bollinger or Simms.

Give up draft picks for JAG like Beck.

Actually option 2 isn't really an option, it's not like Miami is going to rid themselves of another QB for a draft pick lower than the one they invested.

 

[superpunk]

You adivsed me to watch some of his football. As if you know something I don't because you have done that.

Spin controlling it beyond that isn't going to work.

It's not spin. It's telling you his magnificent BYU accomplishments you managed to catch a game or two of don't mean a thing. In the NFL, preseason, regular season, whatever - Beck has given noone any reason to believe. And I know there weren't alot of people on this forum other than me watching Miami Dolphins football last season.

 

[Hostile]

So our options are:

Sign JAG like Bollinger or Simms.

Give up draft picks for JAG like Beck.

Actually option 2 isn't really an option, it's not like Miami is going to rid themselves of another QB for a draft pick lower than the one they invested.

Those are the options as you see them. I don't agree that Beck is a JAG. I think he can either be a viable backup option as the #2 guy when Johnson moves on, or trade bait if he develops as I think he can.

Bollinger is the JAG option.

Miami was asking for a 5th round pick for Beck. 5th round lower than the 2nd round.

 

[Stash]

I'd rather have Harrington than Bollinger.

JMO

"Second!"

 

[rcaldw]

Over the course of time anomalies will develop both on the high & low end.

For every guy drafted in the 10th round who has first round talent you've got a bunch of guys drafted 1 & 2, who have no talent whatsoever.

I agree with you, I just don't think Roger falls into that. He wasn't a 1st round talent who just happened to fall to the 10th round (Romo has proven to be a first round talent who wasn't even drafted), but rather he was a RECOGNIZED first round talent that no one believed could pick it back up after missing so much time due to a Naval commitment.

Not a big deal, I just don't think Roger is a good example of how there is hit and miss at the QB spot based on draft position.

And I'm of the opinion that while you have the occasional Romo or Warner, it is much more the exception than the rule.

Of course, that might be changing now that the NFL has increasingly become a bus drivers league.

 

[joseephuss]

Statistically, Simms was worse in his 3rd year of playing time than he was during his first two years of playing time. He only played in 3 games before suffering that major injury, but his numbers were terrible. Still he may be better than Bollinger.

Bollinger is just more similar to Romo in style of play. Simms is a pocket guy and has little mobility. Plus he is left handed.

It is a curious move to bring in anyone unless they truly can find a guy to groom for the #2 spot for next year. Neither Simms or Bollinger inspire any confidence in me that they can be that guy. To me they have proven that they can't be that guy.

 

[rcaldw]

Those are the options as you see them. I don't agree that Beck is a JAG. I think he can either be a viable backup option as the #2 guy when Johnson moves on, or trade bait if he develops as I think he can.

Bollinger is the JAG option.

Miami was asking for a 5th round pick for Beck. 5th round lower than the 2nd round.

I don't agree that Simms has to be JAG either. The young man actually succeeded with Tampa prior to an injury that he played through that almost killed him.

 

[Hostile]

Statistically, Simms was worse in his 3rd year of playing time than he was during his first two years of playing time. He only played in 3 games before suffering that major injury, but his numbers were terrible. Still he may be better than Bollinger.

Bollinger is just more similar to Romo in style of play. Simms is a pocket guy and has little mobility. Plus he is left handed.

It is a curious move to bring in anyone unless they truly can find a guy to groom for the #2 spot for next year. Neither Simms or Bollinger inspire any confidence in me that they can be that guy. To me they have proven that they can't be that guy.

A team can contribute to bad numbers as much as the player can. Not making excuses for Simms, just saying....

 

[rcaldw]

A team can contribute to bad numbers as much as the player can. Not making excuses for Simms, just saying....

Did anyone ever watch the Tampa Bay offensive line during those years? I never saw a guy get hit so hard and so often on 3-5 step drops in my life.

 

[superpunk]

Those are the options as you see them. I don't agree that Beck is a JAG. I think he can either be a viable backup option as the #2 guy when Johnson moves on, or trade bait if he develops as I think he can.

Bollinger is the JAG option.

Miami was asking for a 5th round pick for Beck. 5th round lower than the 2nd round.

IMO, they're all the JAG option. I can understand why you root for Beck, but in reality, I don't see it happening. In turn, I don't see the point in trading for other people's junk just so we can possibly get something out of it from someone else in the future. Just my view on that.

 

[YosemiteSam]

My over all point is...Bollinger is a JAG and if we add him we're aren't moving forward. Not in 2008 or beyond. All we are accomplishing is that someone else who is viable to help in 2008 is going to get cut to make room.

Stand pat or improve. Don't go backwards.

Considering they are waiting for week two to sign him, my guess is they just want to evaluate him closer and leave the ability to cut him since his whole salary isn't garenteed. Beck is on an active roster so you have to give up something to get him. That entails an unnesessary gamble because as of this point the only team that knows anything about Beck is the Dolphins and they drafted another QB and talked about trading Beck. Thats generally not a good sign.

As for Simms and Bollinger, both have ran an NFL team. Something Beck hasn't done. I know more about Simms than Bollinger. From what I know about Simms, I would rather see Bollinger. By signing Bollinger in the second week you can cut him at anytime.

Until Simms can prove he can get his head NFL QB right, I don't want him unless Crayton or Stanback are our only backup QBs on the roster.

 

[Idgit]

My thought is this - "Who's going to backup Romo's backup in order to eventually become Romo's backup?" - Is not really worth worrying about.

Clearly, no available QB is going to help us remain elite this year if TR and BJ go down (heh, I just said 'BJ' and 'go down'). Why waste a roster spot? We can get a better experienced backup at the start of FA next season, and that's plenty of time to get him ready to, er, hold a clipboard.

Unless you've got your eye on a developmental prospect who lacks experience and could benefit from an extra year in the system (ex, Andre Woodson), I don't see any point at all in bringing in an 'experienced but still available anyway' backup.

 

[Hostile]

IMO, they're all the JAG option. I can understand why you root for Beck, but in reality, I don't see it happening. In turn, I don't see the point in trading for other people's junk just so we can possibly get something out of it from someone else in the future. Just my view on that.

Or signing other people's junk and taking away a roster spot form someone else.

Which was the entire point of the thread. Why the rush to add Bollinger when at best he's a #3 guy now and forever?

 

[joseephuss]

I agree with you, I just don't think Roger falls into that. He wasn't a 1st round talent who just happened to fall to the 10th round (Romo has proven to be a first round talent who wasn't even drafted), but rather he was a RECOGNIZED first round talent that no one believed could pick it back up after missing so much time due to a Naval commitment.

Not a big deal, I just don't think Roger is a good example of how there is hit and miss at the QB spot based on draft position.

And I'm of the opinion that while you have the occasional Romo or Warner, it is much more the exception than the rule.

Of course, that might be changing now that the NFL has increasingly become a bus drivers league.

I agree that Roger is a poor example. Why draft any guy in the 1st round if he won't be available to play for 4 or 5 years? No team would do that. It just is not a logical move. That is why Staubach was not drafted in the 1st or early in the draft. Teams can't afford to draft someone that won't even be a part of the team for that long.

I think Warner is a poor example, too. He obviously needed time to develop his game. More time than a typical first round or early round draft pick needs. He got that time by playing in Europe and the arena league. It probably helped him that he was not drafted in the 1st round or early rounds. If he had he probably would have seen the field too soon and washed out early because he was not ready early in his career. That could have led to him not getting a second chance. It may have also changed his approach to his game in a negative way.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Or signing other people's junk and taking away a roster spot form someone else.

Which was the entire point of the thread. Why the rush to add Bollinger when at best he's a #3 guy now and forever?

They're not rushing to sign him! They are waiting till he can be cut without cost. If anything they can just evaluate him to see if he can actually be a valid backup. Is that not worth a couple of weeks worth of league minimum checks to possibility land a replacement for Johnson after this/next year?

 

[superpunk]

Or signing other people's junk and taking away a roster spot form someone else.

Which was the entire point of the thread. Why the rush to add Bollinger when at best he's a #3 guy now and forever?

I don't see the point in that, either. Fortunately, we haven't done it yet.

 

[Hostile]

Considering they are waiting for week two to sign him, my guess is they just want to evaluate him closer and leave the ability to cut him since his whole salary isn't garenteed. Beck is on an active roster so you have to give up something to get him. That entails an unnesessary gamble because as of this point the only team that knows anything about Beck is the Dolphins and they drafted another QB and talked about trading Beck. Thats generally not a good sign.

As for Simms and Bollinger, both have ran an NFL team. Something Beck hasn't done. I know more about Simms than Bollinger. From what I know about Simms, I would rather see Bollinger. By signing Bollinger in the second week you can cut him at anytime.

Until Simms can prove he can get his head NFL QB right, I don't want him unless Crayton or Stanback are our only backup QBs on the roster.

I'll say it again, Bill Parcells is in charge. He makes moves to show he is in charge.

I have a mutal friend with Jon Beck. The day Parcells was hired by the Dolphins John told Jared he figured he was gone from Miami becaus ein his views Parcells had never liked him. Take that for whatever it is worth, but there have been articles in the Miami Herald saying the same thing.