4-3 defense

[cowboyjoe]

i would put greg ellis at lde and hatcher, spelling him, and yes, spears, tank, ratliff and canty at defensive tackle;

i think canty would be a monster at DT, not as quite as good as leon lett was, but pretty close, with ware and canty close together you could start a dominant defensive line, tank, ratliff, spears would round out the rest,

 

[BAT]

IDK man I still think your overacting just a tad. In a 4-3 DWare would prob rush the QB about 98 percent of the time in the 3-4 IDK how much he rushes but it's not on ever play. So If you figure Dware is the best pass rusher we've had in years the more he rushes the pass rusher the hgiher chance he has of getting a sack right? IDK if I am right or wrong on this one but I think most of Ware's sacks this year are coming while we are in the nickel and he is the DE and not playing OLB.

I think you are operating out of a false premise. It is not the quantity of pass rush opportunities but the quality of pass rushes opportunities. Right now Ware is rushing TOO MUCH. He is on the field nearly every defensive snap. Ware is 260, which is perfect for a 3-4 OLB, but not nearly big enough for a 4-3 every down DE (Haley, and other undersized DEs, battled back and leg injuries most of his career, especially later when he went from the "elephant" OLB to a full fledged DE). As a 4-3 DE he would be limited to playing on the end of the line and rushing the passer, or reading the run, then rushing the passer (depending on the 4-3 scheme implemented). He would have to go head to head w/a 300 lb OL each and every time, this would wear him down over time, Ware would not be as effective late in games. As a 3-4 OLB, Ware would be matched up w/TEs or RBs on occasion depending on where he lines up. At OLB Ware has the ability to move all over the front 7 and he can spare his body further wear and tear when he drops in coverage. It would be criminal not to let Ware make as many plays as he is capable of doing. Ware is like a better Cornelius Bennett, athletic enough to make plays all over the field.

The pass rush is the problem on the defense. Not only is the pass rush the problem but the coverage scheme is also the problem. Also someone pointed out that the players we have would fit the 4-3 better. Consider they played the 4-3 in college Carp, Spears and Tank(to name a few) was awesome for ChiTown in the 4-3. We are trying to get 4-3 players to play the 3-4 and they have been very underwhelming at times. I like the 3-4 it really nice however I think there could defintley be some benefits to us running a 4-3 and a lot of our players could/ does fit better in the 4-3.

See this is the biggest flaw in your argument. Carp, Spears and even Tank are not players I would build my defense around. They are backups, or average starters, at best. You build your team around your stars_Ware, first and foremost, then Ratliff. Both are off to career years, in the 3-4. Ratliff may be a decent 4-3 DT, but he is a STUD as a Wade 3-4 NT.

Wade's 3-4 may look like a traditional 3-4 (see Parcells), but his DL are not always asked to two gap. They one gap (like 4-3 DTs) quite a bit. So a Wade 3-4 plays like a traditional 4-3, except it threatens to rush FIVE instead of FOUR. It is one of the 3-4 DEs that usually is responsible for 2 gapping, or even dropping into zone coverage. Most times one of the OLB will drop off into coverage, depending on how the opposing offense lines up. The 3-4 is much more versatile and unpredictable (easier to disguise the blitz) than the 4-3. QBs and coaches read the blitz out of the 4-3 much easier. The exception is Jim Johnson's (Spagnuolo's) 4-3 which actually utilizes a ton of zone blitzes (similar to many 3-4 zone dog teams, see the old 90's Steelers and Panthers teams, which brought blitzers from anywhere on the field).

 

[KingintheNorth]

I think Spencer is a pretty good pass rusher and his college position was defensive end. As a 3-4 OLB he has to cover occasionally while a 4-3 OLB has to cover all the time and very rarely blitzes. If the SLB blitzes, the TE is usually wide open, and that's both an easy read and an easy pass for QB's to make. I think he would be exposed.

 

[cowboyjoe]

again, the only player to me, bigger than spencer is rogers, the cowboys just got polk, so the jury is stilll out on him;

since spencer was drafted as a number one pick and he has played outside linebacker, and ware would play the right defensive end, which granted spencer might be good there too, but you can only play one right defensive end at a time

and as you pointed out, with his size, spencer is way too small to play left defensive end;

spencer is real strong and fast, so i would want him at olb on the strongside, since he is real strong, remember, spencer went up against the big OT that the browns selected 2 years ago, cant think of his name right now, but spencer held his own;

so that shows spencer is real strong right there, and that what the OT said, that spencer was real strong, so i want him at strongside linebacker,

 

[cowboyjoe]

again, spencer was a number 1 pick he is too small to play at left defensive end for sure; but spencer is close to being one of our fastest linebackers too and he is real strong;

most strongside linebackers covers tight ends and running backs;

i feel that spencer can do that, with ware at RDE, i would think about putting spencer there at rde, but ware is there, i want my best players on the field

his is times of the linebackers too with size;
DALL Weak Backer HGT WGT Speed RATING
94 WARE Demarcus . 6- 4.0 259 4.62 782.77
57 BURNETT Kevin 6- 2.5 234 4.57 462.58
0 ROGERS Justin . 6- 3.2 252 4.76 390.42
______________________________________________________________

DALL Strong Backer HGT WGT Speed RATING
98 ELLIS Greg 6- 5.0 272 4.96 556.66
93 SPENCER Anthony 6- 2.8 261 4.64 524.75
______________________________________________________________

DALL Strong Middle Backer HGT WGT Speed RATING
56 JAMES Brady 6- 1.3 248 4.63 590.71
______________________________________________________________

DALL Weak Middle Backer HGT WGT Speed RATING
55 THOMAS Zach . 5-10.0 235 4.98 568.29
54 CARPENTER Bobby 6- 3.0 252 4.62 469.42

only burnett is the fastest, with carpenter and james just a tad faster than spencer, most tight ends run in the 4.65 range or slower, spencer runs it in 4.64

in time i feel spencer could be a very good strongside linebacker with his size, strength and speed,

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I think you are operating out of a false premise. It is not the quantity of pass rush opportunities but the quality of pass rushes opportunities. Right now Ware is rushing TOO MUCH. He is on the field nearly every defensive snap. Ware is 260, which is perfect for a 3-4 OLB, but not nearly big enough for a 4-3 every down DE (Haley, and other undersized DEs, battled back and leg injuries most of his career, especially later when he went from the "elephant" OLB to a full fledged DE). As a 4-3 DE he would be limited to playing on the end of the line and rushing the passer, or reading the run, then rushing the passer, depending on the 4-3 scheme implemented. He would have to go head to head w/a 300 lb OL each and every time. As a 3-4 OLB, Ware would be matched up w/TEs or RBs depending on where he lines up. At OLB Ware has the ability to move all over the front 7 and he can spare his body some wear and tear on occasion when he drops in coverage. It would be criminal not to let Ware make as many plays as he is capable of doing. Ware is like a better Cornelius Bennett, athletic enough to make plays all over the field.

IDK about that every time Ware rushes he is taken on by the team OT. I haven't seen a team have Ware 1 on 1 with a TE or RB this year. They may use them to chip but as for Ware not going up against OLine man is false. Ware is a monster I agree with that and him playing 4-3 DE will limit him when it comes to overall put him pass rushing would be monsterous for us.

See this is the biggest flaw in your argument. Carp, Spears and even Tank are not players I would build my defense around. They are backups, or average starters, at best. You build your team around your stars_Ware, first and foremost, then Ratliff. Both are off to career years, in the 3-4. Ratliff may be a decent 4-3 DT, but he is a STUD as a Wade 3-4 NT.

Tank was far from average when he was playing with chicago. I only named a coupled of players...Thomas came out of a 4-3 defense also....Ware played 4-3 in college along with Spencer....So it's whatever take it how you want to.

Wade's 3-4 may look like a traditional 3-4 (see Parcells), but his DL are not always asked to two gap. They one gap (like 4-3 DTs) quite a bit. So a Wade 3-4 plays like a traditional 4-3, except it threatens to rush FIVE instead of FOUR. It is one of the 3-4 DEs that usually is responsible for 2 gapping, or even dropping into zone coverage. Most times one of the OLB will drop off into coverage, depending on how the opposing offense lines up. The 3-4 is much more versatile and unpredictable (easier to disguise the blitz) than the 4-3. QBs and coaches read the blitz out of the 4-3 much easier. The exception is Jim Johnson's (Spagnuolo's) 4-3 which actually utilizes a ton of zone blitzes (similar to many 3-4 zone dog teams, see the old 90's Steelers and Panthers teams, which brought blitzers from anywhere on the field).

I know what you're saying. I was actually thinking of Jim Johnson defense when I was thinking of us running the 4-3 and how aggresive it would be. with the antpicated pressure we could get from running four of our guys like whether it be Ware-Ratliff-Johnson-Ellis or Ware-Ratliff-Spears-Spencer or Ware-Ratliff-Hatcher-Ellis/Spencer....We could run something like the tampa bay defense. I think it would make us more flexible and the idea of blitzing with the pass rushers we already have would be scary IMO. If we get a massive DT for our 3-4 then I don't see the switch needed however until we get someone like Rogers our defense will continously be suspect.

 

[BAT]

Spencer or James at SAM??? 4-3 LBs need speed. Speed to attack the edges, fill the gaps, gang tackle AND COVER.


Neither Spencer OR James fit that bill. James has trouble covering from the MIKE as it is. And Spencer would have to gain weight to play 4-3 DE, regardless whether it is the right or left side. And he would have to gain a substantial amount of weight to play the strongside, b/c no way he would supplant Ware on the weakside.


Think of all the past SAM LBs that the Cowboys have had and succeeded with over the years.


For example, Dixon Edwards was 224 lbs, and Cowboys won SBs with the guy. He was small, fast and tough who could play sideline to sideline and cover TEs and RBs.

 

[cowboyjoe]

the way bradie james plays i dont think he is strong enough to play stronside linebacker

if i was dallas and say they didnt trade for roy williams i would have used that number one pick on one of the top middle linebackers coming out of college,

think about it, name the best middle linebacker that the cowboys have had, best one to me, goes back to when lee roy jordan, bob brenuig played, robert jones sure hasnt played well when he was with dallas,

i do understand what your saying about speed at linebacker, jimmy johnson has speedy linebackersl but the cowboys havent had a monster linebacker that would play at miiddle linebacker in a long while, thats why i would want spencer at stronside, he is real strong, decent speed then some of the cowboys linebackers,

and spencer could shut down the run on the strongside,

 

[cowboyjoe]

i understand what your saying about speed and i agree with that, but with what the cowboys have on the team thats why i put spencer at strongsidelinebacker

he is too small to play lde

and ware jumped up at weight 268 this year, he got stronger this year, so i do think he could play at RDE,

again like i said, with the linebackers we have, to me, spencer should be on the field as a number one pick, you cant put him at rde because thats where ware is, you cant put him at weakside linebacker because thats where burnett and carpenter are
and carpenter is a finese linebacker, we all know that right;

so carpenter would have to play weakside if he stayed in dallas

james isnt strong enough at strongside to me, so i would put him at middle linebacker

that leaves spencer at strongside to me, is it the best total position for spencer probably not because spencer is a typical 3-4 linebacker to me, on the strongside, but in the 3-4, thats what i see him,

 

[jobberone]

We 'could' transition to a 4-3 but why. We have a pretty good defense and once all the regular starters return and mesh then it'll be better than good.

Some one thinks the pass rush isn't any good. Well, heck, we should go to the 4-3 'cause I know we could have a pass rush then.

We have drafted for several years to play the 3-4 and there are key players geared to that defense not to mention we have coaches brought in here to replace Parcells who were experts on the 3-4. Why in the world would they want to do that when they could just hire anyone and put them in a 4-3 and then we'd have a great pass rush.

 

[BAT]

IDK about that every time Ware rushes he is taken on by the team OT. I haven't seen a team have Ware 1 on 1 with a TE or RB this year. They may use them to chip but as for Ware not going up against OLine man is false. Ware is a monster I agree with that and him playing 4-3 DE will limit him when it comes to overall put him pass rushing would be monsterous for us.

I disagree. Ware has too many weapons in his arsenal to limit him. And Ware was moved around more to take advantage of matchups last season compared to this season. Likely due to Spencer being out so much. The Cowboy package used last season allowed all 3 of our best rushers to play at the same time and when Spencer/Ellis are lined up on the same side as Ware, Ware would be matched up against a TE or RB, especially if they stunted.

Ware is not being run into the ground this season IMO. He has had to work way too hard for his sacks. Ware and Stewart have not put him in the best/easiest position to succeed IMO. Ware works his keister off on every play just to fight the double and sometimes triple teams.

Tank was far from average when he was playing with chicago. I only named a coupled of players...Thomas came out of a 4-3 defense also....Ware played 4-3 in college along with Spencer....So it's whatever take it how you want to.

Tank was a good player, but he was also playing alongside a stud in Tommie Harris. Tank does not have that caliber of talent alongside of him in Dallas. And it is Tank's penchance to free lance that gets him in trouble, not the scheme. Tank is still one gapping, he just needs to retain gap responsibility then go kill the QB. Probably too anxious to make a play/prove himself. But Ratliff is disciplined enough to do it AND still make plays.

I know what you're saying. I was actually thinking of Jim Johnson defense when I was thinking of us running the 4-3 and how aggresive it would be. with the antpicated pressure we could get from running four of our guys like whether it be Ware-Ratliff-Johnson-Ellis or Ware-Ratliff-Spears-Spencer or Ware-Ratliff-Hatcher-Ellis/Spencer....We could run something like the tampa bay defense. I think it would make us more flexible and the idea of blitzing with the pass rushers we already have would be scary IMO. If we get a massive DT for our 3-4 then I don't see the switch needed however until we get someone like Rogers our defense will continously be suspect.

Dallas does not have the LBs to run Jim Johnson's 4-3, which is VERY different from the Tampa Cover 2 4-3. Jim Johnson prefers big LBs who can play the run, cover and pass rush (Dallas has one of these, Ware). Omar Gaither is the weakside OLB on the Eagles, the smallest LB_and he is 245 lbs. Gaither is as big or BIGGER than Dallas' ILB (James dropped weight to 235 and Zach is not much heavier). Jim Johnson corners are skilled in man 2 man, press w/zone or off man, who can also blitz. Tampa 2 LBs are smaller and usually quicker (oversized safeties) and the corners and safeties are experts at zone coverage.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I disagree. Ware has too many weapons in his arsenal to limit him. And Ware was moved around more to take advantage of matchups last season compared to this season. Likely due to Spencer being out so much. The Cowboy package used last season allowed all 3 of our best rushers to play at the same time and when Spencer/Ellis are lined up on the same side as Ware, Ware would be matched up against a TE or RB, especially if they stunted.

Ware is not being run into the ground this season IMO. He has had to work way too hard for his sacks. Ware and Stewart have not put him in the best/easiest position to succeed IMO. Ware works his keister off on every play just to fight the double and sometimes triple teams.

Ware is a stud I think we can both agree on that. =) Outside of Ware no really gets at the QB....even though we had tremendous success last year with the scheme there is something that is not clicking this year. Whether it be the way the are using the players or Spencer not being in the lineup somethings has to give any way you look at it Ware is the most dominate force on this team and we need to become more creative in ways we use him.

Tank was a good player, but he was also playing alongside a stud in Tommie Harris. Tank does not have that caliber of talent alongside of him in Dallas. And it is Tank's penchance to free lance that gets him in trouble, not the scheme. Tank is still one gapping, he just needs to retain gap responsibility then go kill the QB. Probably too anxious to make a play/prove himself. But Ratliff is disciplined enough to do it AND still make plays.

Yea Ratliff has been playing out of his mind the season. I'm not saying Ratliff is Tommie Harris but if we switched to a 4-3 it would benefit both of them.

Dallas does not have the LBs to run Jim Johnson's 4-3, which is VERY different from the Tampa Cover 2 4-3. Jim Johnson prefers big LBs who can play the run, cover and pass rush (Dallas has one of these, Ware). Omar Gaither is the weakside OLB on the Eagles, the smallest LB_and he is 245 lbs. Gaither is as big or BIGGER than Dallas' ILB (James dropped weight to 235 and Zach is not much heavier). Jim Johnson corners are skilled in man 2 man, press w/zone or off man, who can also blitz. Tampa 2 LBs are smaller and usually quicker (oversized safeties) and the corners and safeties are experts at zone coverage.

Our LB'rs are small however they are athletic and I think they could play any 4-3 scheme no matter what. I think that the Tampa 2 would benefit Burnett and Carp and compliment them a lot. Thomas would also be huge in that system. IDK about having to be expert at zone but Cover 2 is something I'm sure every DB is used to and is simple. Our corners are also skilled in man to man and can press also. We have a very talented team that can adjust and adatped to any scheme IMO. There would defintley be some positive we lose by switching to a 4-3 however the overall good of a 4-3 could be better than a 3-4. Even if Players don't fit the idea mold or prefence they a system doesn't mean that stops them from producing. Zach Thomas is undersized for his position so is Ratliff they are still playing well.

 

[BAT]

again, spencer was a number 1 pick he is too small to play at left defensive end for sure; but spencer is close to being one of our fastest linebackers too and he is real strong;

most strongside linebackers covers tight ends and running backs;

i feel that spencer can do that, with ware at RDE, i would think about putting spencer there at rde, but ware is there, i want my best players on the field

his is times of the linebackers too with size;
DALL Weak Backer HGT WGT Speed RATING
94 WARE Demarcus . 6- 4.0 259 4.62 782.77
57 BURNETT Kevin 6- 2.5 234 4.57 462.58
0 ROGERS Justin . 6- 3.2 252 4.76 390.42
______________________________________________________________

DALL Strong Backer HGT WGT Speed RATING
98 ELLIS Greg 6- 5.0 272 4.96 556.66
93 SPENCER Anthony 6- 2.8 261 4.64 524.75
______________________________________________________________

DALL Strong Middle Backer HGT WGT Speed RATING
56 JAMES Brady 6- 1.3 248 4.63 590.71
______________________________________________________________

DALL Weak Middle Backer HGT WGT Speed RATING
55 THOMAS Zach . 5-10.0 235 4.98 568.29
54 CARPENTER Bobby 6- 3.0 252 4.62 469.42

only burnett is the fastest, with carpenter and james just a tad faster than spencer, most tight ends run in the 4.65 range or slower, spencer runs it in 4.64

in time i feel spencer could be a very good strongside linebacker with his size, strength and speed,

Where did you get the 40 times? Bradie James came out of LSU as a OLB running in the 4.7-4.9 range. When did he start running in the 4.6's???

And Ware's 40 was in the low 4.5's when he was drafted.

 

[BAT]

Yea Ratliff has been playing out of his mind the season. I'm not saying Ratliff is Tommie Harris but if we switched to a 4-3 it would benefit both of them.

Lets agree to disagree then. The Cowboys coaches were thinking the same initially if you will recall, when the plan was to move Rat to DE and insert Tank at NT in the starting lineup. Never materialized for whatever reason. Rat wants to play NT in a 3-4. Playing DE in a Wade 3-4 is akin to playing DT in a traditional 4-3 anyway. Tank just has not done anything to deserve a starting spot right now. It is not the scheme.

Our LB'rs are small however they are athletic and I think they could play any 4-3 scheme no matter what. I think that the Tampa 2 would benefit Burnett and Carp and compliment them a lot. Thomas would also be huge in that system. IDK about having to be expert at zone but Cover 2 is something I'm sure every DB is used to and is simple. Our corners are also skilled in man to man and can press also. We have a very talented team that can adjust and adatped to any scheme IMO. There would defintley be some positive we lose by switching to a 4-3 however the overall good of a 4-3 could be better than a 3-4. Even if Players don't fit the idea mold or prefence they a system doesn't mean that stops them from producing. Zach Thomas is undersized for his position so is Ratliff they are still playing well.

Zach Thomas had some of his best years as a 3-4 ILB. Go look it up. Under Sabban, Thomas was just as effective. Zach is a player no matter what scheme. But Thomas is on record as LOVING Wade's scheme. Same w/Ware, same w/Rat. Same w/many if not all of the D players.

Spencer and James are not 4-3 LBers. Neither has the range or coverage ability. Burnett and Carpenter are fringe players, again, I would not change my scheme to accomodate these type of players.

Like one of the other posters states, the Cowboys COULD change to the 4-3, but why would they? It is an ill fit at this time, never mind the money and time it took to convert the D from a 4-3 to a 3-4. The personnel is just better suited to succeed in a 3-4 at this time.

Finally, if the Tampa 2 was as easy as you think, why is our secondary having so much trouble utilizing it? You do know that Dallas does employ cover 2 on more than a few occassions, right (10 yd cushions ring a bell?)? And Wade insists that the corners cannot be trusted to play man 2 man or press coverage, b/c they are not good enough at it yet.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Lets agree to disagree then. The Cowboys coaches were thinking the same initially if you will recall, when the plan was to move Rat to DE and insert Tank at NT in the starting lineup. Never materialized for whatever reason. Rat wants to play NT in a 3-4. Playing DE in a Wade 3-4 is akin to playing DT in a traditional 4-3 anyway. Tank just has not done anything to deserve a starting spot right now. It is not the scheme.

I agree Tank blows

Zach Thomas had some of his best years as a 3-4 ILB. Go look it up. Under Sabban, Thomas was just as effective. Zach is a player no matter what scheme. But Thomas is on record as LOVING Wade's scheme. Same w/Ware, same w/Rat. Same w/many if not all of the D players.

A lot of players loves Wade's defense.....

Spencer and James are not 4-3 LBers. Neither has the range or coverage ability. Burnett and Carpenter are fringe players, again, I would not change my scheme to accomodate these type of players.

I think spencer would be a DE and I think James would be a SOLB in a 4-3

Like one of the other posters states, the Cowboys COULD change to the 4-3, but why would they? It is an ill fit at this time, never mind the money and time it took to convert the D from a 4-3 to a 3-4. The personnel is just better suited to succeed in a 3-4 at this time.

IdK if it's better suited.

Finally, if the Tampa 2 was as easy as you think, why is our secondary having so much trouble utilizing it? You do know that Dallas does employ cover 2 on more than a few occassions, right (10 yd cushions ring a bell?)? And Wade insists that the corners cannot be trusted to play man 2 man or press coverage, b/c they are not good enough at it yet.

I'm sorry but guys like Tnewman Henry and Pacman aren't good at press coverage my ***. I've seen Newman man up against the best WR in the game and lock them down. So that is just plain BS right there buddy. Cover 2 implores 10 yard cushions ? Thats weird cause I thought that we were playing a 3 deep Zone and having the Corners cover 1/3 deep and Hamlin makes up the final 1/3. I really don't think they are struggling with a cover 2 scheme.

That's an expample of a Cover 2 defense. If you believe that you can pressure will be there then the need to rush the extra guy becomes meaningless. Also look at where the CB are in the ocmpare to the LoS if they were 10 yards off the ball like you suggested that would mess up their responsebilties and also leave the flats wierd open for large gains. This takes away those short throws and says that by time you get down the field Our pressure will be there before hand.

This is an example of the 3 deep zone that we have been running.

If you look at the bottom pictures although very basic you can see the difference in the position of the CB's versus a Tampa 2. If you consider that we are running the 3 deep zone as our primary defense it's seems weird. Also factor in that some one needs to blitz just for their to be a 4th man there. So pick the guy you want to blitz then once he leave his zone some one else has to cover it then once that happens you either hope the pressure gets there of you there will be a hole in the zone. Their have been huge holes in our zone at times.

 

[jobberone]

This is insane. There are no quality 4-3 OLB on this roster. Unless you want to start Mr. Glass Burnett and/or Barbie Carpenter?

And you might as well cut James now, he is not a 4-3 MLB. Zach most definitely is, but how long is he going to play, 1 year, 2 years more??

And Ellis has been much more productive as a 3-4 OLB than he ever was as a 4-3 DE. How soon people forget his FIRST double digit sack season AND a pro bowl nod was as a 3-4 OLB, not a DE.

Finally, Ware is the best player on this defense, BAR NONE. Ware's BEST position is as a 3-4 OLB.

Lets agree to disagree then. The Cowboys coaches were thinking the same initially if you will recall, when the plan was to move Rat to DE and insert Tank at NT in the starting lineup. Never materialized for whatever reason. Rat wants to play NT in a 3-4. Playing DE in a Wade 3-4 is akin to playing DT in a traditional 4-3 anyway. Tank just has not done anything to deserve a starting spot right now. It is not the scheme.




Zach Thomas had some of his best years as a 3-4 ILB. Go look it up. Under Sabban, Thomas was just as effective. Zach is a player no matter what scheme. But Thomas is on record as LOVING Wade's scheme. Same w/Ware, same w/Rat. Same w/many if not all of the D players.

Spencer and James are not 4-3 LBers. Neither has the range or coverage ability. Burnett and Carpenter are fringe players, again, I would not change my scheme to accomodate these type of players.

Like one of the other posters states, the Cowboys COULD change to the 4-3, but why would they? It is an ill fit at this time, never mind the money and time it took to convert the D from a 4-3 to a 3-4. The personnel is just better suited to succeed in a 3-4 at this time.

Finally, if the Tampa 2 was as easy as you think, why is our secondary having so much trouble utilizing it? You do know that Dallas does employ cover 2 on more than a few occassions, right (10 yd cushions ring a bell?)? And Wade insists that the corners cannot be trusted to play man 2 man or press coverage, b/c they are not good enough at it yet.[/quote]

I hadn't seen or just forgot he said that but it's obvious he doesn't trust the players at this time to play more aggressive schemes very often. It's not as if they're too stupid to see we can be dinked and dunked under the current circumstances. That's just there best bet for now until the new CBs gel, TNew gets back, Henry can play more favorable matchups for him more often, the safties gel together better and the pressure up front gets more consistent. If we could force teams away from defeating our aggressive pass rush then the pendulum will swing heavily in our favor.

 

[BAT]

I agree Tank blows

Did I say he "blows"? I simply stated that he has not done enough to deserve a starter's spot.

A lot of players loves Wade's defense.....
I think spencer would be a DE and I think James would be a SOLB in a 4-3
IdK if it's better suited.

James is good enough against the run, but he would be torn a new one if he had to keep contain on the edges AND cover TEs. James is an average strongside ILB in a 3-4, but he would struggle mightily as a 4-3 SAM. Not enough range and his lack of athleticism limits him in coverage considerably. Spencer is a tweener (ie 3-4 OLB), he would need to get much bigger to play strongside DE.

I'm sorry but guys like Tnewman Henry and Pacman aren't good at press coverage my ***. I've seen Newman man up against the best WR in the game and lock them down. So that is just plain BS right there buddy.

Go yell at Wade, he said it. There has to be a modicum of truth to it, otherwise why slit his throat by not putting his players in a position that they have publically advocated.

Cover 2 implores 10 yard cushions ? Thats weird cause I thought that we were playing a 3 deep Zone and having the Corners cover 1/3 deep and Hamlin makes up the final 1/3. I really don't think they are struggling with a cover 2 scheme.

Hey you are mostly right. Dallas does employ the cover 3 as their primary coverage. But Dallas has been in 4-3 fronts utilizing cover 2 or man off. Watch the nickel sets. Hamlin on one side, Watkins on the other w/Burnett manning the middle. And cover 2 does not automatically mean the corners press the WRs, it depends on the team, and down and distance. Watch Tampa, do you see Ronde Barber pressing WRs all game long. Heck if you see him do it more than once, I would be surprised.

By the by, Dallas does not blitz as much as everyone assumes. They send 4 quite a bit. But the 3-4 is designed to send at least 5 most of the time.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Did I say he "blows"? I simply stated that he has not done enough to deserve a starter's spot.

I think Tank sucks....

James is good enough against the run, but he would be torn a new one if he had to keep contain on the edges AND cover TEs. James is an average strongside ILB in a 3-4, but he would struggle mightily as a 4-3 SAM. Not enough range and his lack of athleticism limits him in coverage considerably. Spencer is a tweener (ie 3-4 OLB), he would need to get much bigger to play strongside DE.

Spencer would have to put on wait but that shouldn't be a problem. James would most likely be average at best as a SAM however we don't need studs always. We would be able to cover up that weakness....hopefully.

Go yell at Wade, he said it. There has to be a modicum of truth to it, otherwise why slit his throat by not putting his players in a position that they have publically advocated.

I know it was Wade who said it I was against him when he said it the first time.....I honestly don't think he knows that he's talking about or doing.....He says we've played quite a bit of man and been poor at it. I would love to know what he was talking about. From the gate in preseason we've been playing that crap zone defense and a lot of people said we we going vanilla for preseason. I just would love to know at which point in time Wade came to the conclusion that man to man was bad for our team.

Hey you are mostly right. Dallas does employ the cover 3 as their primary coverage. But Dallas has been in 4-3 fronts utilizing cover 2 or man off. Watch the nickel sets. Hamlin on one side, Watkins on the other w/Burnett manning the middle. And cover 2 does not automatically mean the corners press the WRs, it depends on the team, and down and distance. Watch Tampa, do you see Ronde Barber pressing WRs all game long. Heck if you see him do it more than once, I would be surprised.

I'm not saying they are pressing however they play a lot closer to that LoS than what you said which was 10 yard from the LoS. I think they play 1-3 yards of the LoS 5 is the max.

By the by, Dallas does not blitz as much as everyone assumes. They send 4 quite a bit. But the 3-4 is designed to send at least 5 most of the time.

Oh I know we don't blitz that much I don't know why however. Like I said blitzing and playing that 3-deep zone its a disaster IMO because if the blitz doesn't get there you have the holes in the zone. If you go back to the picture I posted where from that zone would you want to blitz. If we send five we better pray the pressure get theres other wise thats 2 holes in the zone and more ground diffrent players will have to cover thus all the open holes that we've seen in the defense.

 

[Walker]

I haven't read the last 2 pages on this thread but I did remember the question about "Who would coach it?" (brought it up myself as well). Looks like the combination of DaBoys4Life and BAT could be candidates.

 

[BAT]

Hey DB4L, you see Ware moving all over the line pre-snap so he could match up against TEs or RBs today? Result was multiple sacks (would have preferred a win, but that was not Ware's fault).

That's one thing that Wade/Stewart made a determined effort to re-establish, which was not always the case in the beginning of this season.