4/6 Mock

[ABQCOWBOY]

Like I said, Dallas could get a bit more. I think we all agree on that..even the OP

All people have to do is go back at look at all the trades (not including the vague future picks) and they'll see they all fall within 5-10% of the chart.
No exceptions.

But IT IS TRUE that more times than not, the team going up for the QB pays that extra 5%.
If we think Jerry would actually force a team to pay that extra 5%--can't recall him doing that in the last decade--then it wuld mean we get an extra 90.

In this case that would mean paying 1890 for 1800.

But really, if Dallas is trading the pick, what's keeping SF from staying put and getting Goff at no extra cost.
Or if Dallas wants the 2nd rounder (WAY out of line chart-wise) what's keeping them from saying either 1) no deal or 2) just give SD that deal and slight bump and forget Dallas altogether.

In the end, I don't care either way, of course.
This is just make believe. All in good fun.
I was just pointing out the facts of how these trades have happened in the past.

They should say no deal in that situation. You don't help a team pick their Franchise QB and essentially not benefit from that scenario greatly. I am unfamiliar with the 5% value statistic you mentioned but I would be interested in seeing how that played out for a trade into the top 5 of the draft or for a Franchise QB. Both of those things would be premium IMO. Take the QB or the highest rated player on the board and don't help SF. That's the smart thing to do if all you are getting is 5%, to me.

 

[BlueNSilver88]

We are picking forth in the draft. To me, and really this is only my opinion, any scenario where we are dropping down out of the top 5 and not getting a seriously good trade value out of it is stupid. I would rather just stay there and take the best player on our board. Heck, I would rather take the QB but who knows?

Yeah, but it is not like we are dropping from top 5 to top 15, we are just moving down from #4 to #7. Think of this move as an 'insurance' play by SF so no funny business happens with their target. Sure, the value could be better, I've agreed on that. That's where the FO would have to make their money in negotiations. This is all with the basis that there will still be a player they really like at #7 - so why not get more out of it (I.E., a 2nd, etc.)

 

[BlueNSilver88]

Of course, if there is a player Dallas absolutely LOVES sitting there at their #4, they should just take him! Especially if the trade down value isn't overwhelming. But if the next few players on their list are about the same, why not try to get more boom for the buck, if you know what I'm saying

 

[DFWJC]

I did find a trade up for a QB in the top 5 that went out side the normal value range.

In this case though, the team trading up (jets for Sanchez) paid way less than the value of the 5th.
Then again, it WAS Cleveland trading down with the Jets and accepting much less value (on paper). LOL

That GM got fired.

What it does show is that nothing is certain.
So me saying "no exceptions" outside of 5-10% is not entirely true.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, but it is not like we are dropping from top 5 to top 15, we are just moving down from #4 to #7. Think of this move as an 'insurance' play by SF so no funny business happens with their target. Sure, the value could be better, I've agreed on that. That's where the FO would have to make their money in negotiations. This is all with the basis that there will still be a player they really like at #7 - so why not get more out of it (I.E., a 2nd, etc.)

Yeah, we don't agree. We need a QB. We need to take an elite player or get paid very well to move down and take more risk. Most experts I've read and listened to believe that there are 4 to 5 elite players in this draft. The number of actual players who have a 1st round grade are anywhere from 12 to 20. We would be trading out of that elite area. Why would we do this if we weren't receiving an offer that made the risk worth it? All you do by adopting that kind of practice is invite problems.

 

[BlueNSilver88]

Yeah, we don't agree. We need a QB. We need to take an elite player or get paid very well to move down and take more risk. Most experts I've read and listened to believe that there are 4 to 5 elite players in this draft. The number of actual players who have a 1st round grade or anywhere from 12 to 20. We would be trading out of that elite are. Why would we do this if we weren't receiving an offer that made the risk worth it? All you do by adopting that kind of practice is invite problems.

Well, to me EE IS elite, and we don't 'NEED' a QB - but I guess that goes towards our differences on the lifespan of Romo. IF they feel that Goff is 'their guy' then take him. But this whole thread was based on the concept that JJ won't pick a QB at #4 - which we don't know how true it is or not. The point is to foster discussion

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, to me EE IS elite, and we don't 'NEED' a QB - but I guess that goes towards our differences on the lifespan of Romo. IF they feel that Goff is 'their guy' then take him. But this whole thread was based on the concept that JJ won't pick a QB at #4 - which we don't know how true it is or not. The point is to foster discussion

To me, the point is more about how you want to run your business. Elliot, to me, is not elite. He is very good but he's not one of those guys that is elite. I would add to this, if you trade down with a team and if Elliot is elite, how do you know that he will be there at 7?

Opening up yourself to discussion could be good or bad. You trade out and take a guy who ends up being solid or tanking and you open yourself up to huge backlash from your fan base and everybody else. You also open yourself up to a certain type of business practice. This is a little more difficult to explain but essentially, you want to be known as an organization that makes smart moves and conducts business in an intelligent manner. You don't want to be known as the team that might just make a bone head move. It's hard to explain but it's very real in the business world.

 

[BlueNSilver88]

To me, the point is more about how you want to run your business. Elliot, to me, is not elite. He is very good but he's not one of those guys that is elite. I would add to this, if you trade down with a team and if Elliot is elite, how do you know that he will be there at 7?

Opening up yourself to discussion could be good or bad. You trade out and take a guy who ends up being solid or tanking and you open yourself up to huge backlash from your fan base and everybody else. You also open yourself up to a certain type of business practice. This is a little more difficult to explain but essentially, you want to be known as an organization that makes smart moves and conducts business in an intelligent manner. You don't want to be known as the team that might just make a bone head move. It's hard to explain but it's very real in the business world.

I understand what you're saying. But who knows who will be good or who will be bad - really? There is no guarantee any pick at any slot will yield you a good player.

And to Elliot not being there at #7, I originally mentioned that if there is 3-4 players who are rated about the same, not just EE. I wouldn't be trading down with a tunnel vision on EE. IF so I would just take him at #4.

I don't know how relevant this is, but I am a third year law student. I was just trying to have some fun with possible trade scenarios & get some feedback

 

[BlueNSilver88]

Furthermore, of course the point of negotiations is to try to get the best deal possible for you (in good faith). I agree that there is more meat on the bone that a savvy negotiator could obtain if SF wants their franchise QB. My OP was just the starting point of what I thought was a 'reasonable' deal I could live with at the bare minimum (which doesnt mean I wouldnt try to get the most I could)

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I understand what you're saying. But who knows who will be good or who will be bad - really? There is no guarantee any pick at any slot will yield you a good player.

Agreed. All the more reason you don't give away a premium draft spot. You don't know what any of these guys will end up being but you do know this. You know that the players ranked as elite are the guys that, according to the NFL's evaluations, are the most likely to be franchise type players. The ones ranked lower are less likely. You know that if you hit on a QB and that QB becomes a franchise guy, you can't place value on that. Because of these two things, you better get paid well for taking on the risk of possibly passing up on that. Look no further then the Cowboys passing on Randy Moss and taking Greg Ellis. Ellis was a solid player and even a cornerstone player for us but most fans view him as a failure. Randy Moss, on the other hand (even though 20 other teams passed on him) still haunts us to this day.

 

[BlueNSilver88]

Agreed. All the more reason you don't give away a premium draft spot. You don't know what any of these guys will end up being but you do know this. You know that the players ranked as elite are the guys that, according to the NFL's evaluations, are the most likely to be franchise type players. The ones ranked lower are less likely. You know that if you hit on a QB and that QB becomes a franchise guy, you can't place value on that. Because of these two things, you better get paid well for taking on the risk of possibly passing up on that. Look no further then the Cowboys passing on Randy Moss and taking Greg Ellis. Ellis was a solid player and even a cornerstone player for us but most fans view him as a failure. Randy Moss, on the other hand (even though 20 other teams passed on him) still haunts us to this day.

I understand, this is where I would kill to know Dallas' draft board (As most of us would) haha

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I understand, this is where I would kill to know Dallas' draft board (As most of us would) haha

Every year BNS88. Every year.......

 

[tyke1doe]

EE is a long shot since we have our starting two RBs on the roster now. Not saying I agree with this but I believe JJ is happy with DMac and Morris.

Then he's a fool.

 

[tyke1doe]

The trade would not happen then.
Simple as that.

No offense
But I like how all of you guys are playing internet GM forum hardball when in real life it doesn't work that way.

Let the man have his fun.

 

[tyke1doe]

I think its a pretty realistic trade. We shouldn't have to give up our 3rd rounder though. Would like to find a way to move down 3 spots and pick up their 2nd rounder without giving up anything else.

And I'm on the Ezekiel Elliot train also. We are getting bashed on the board for wanting Elliot that high in the first round, but he would give us the most impact day one.

But yes we have Morris and McFadden and you can find Rbs anywhere in the draft. I still want him.

Won't you take me to funkytown!

I agree both on EE and on the fact that we shouldn't have to give up a #3. We shouldn't give up any compensation. You want Goff, you pay the price. Besides, I'm saying to SF, "I need your answer quickly because we've got Philly and the LA Rams on the phone."

 

[BlueNSilver88]

Won't you take me to funkytown!

I agree both on EE and on the fact that we shouldn't have to give up a #3. We shouldn't give up any compensation. You want Goff, you pay the price. Besides, I'm saying to SF, "I need your answer quickly because we've got Philly and the LA Rams on the phone."

Yeah, you don't want to outright lie to them either though. This isn't a zero-sum proceeding; your reputation and credibility matters going forward. If, however, you do have interest from Philly and/or LA then its a very viable (and I would even say good) strategy. But you don't want to try to get a better deal for you in bad faith, because they can easily find out later, and while you might 'win' on this one trade, you hurt your credibility in the long run (which I think is very important and why JJ is a straight shooter in deals)

 

[Sydla]

Yeah, you don't want to outright lie to them either though. This isn't a zero-sum proceeding; your reputation and credibility matters going forward. If, however, you do have interest from Philly and/or LA then its a very viable (and I would even say good) strategy. But you don't want to try to get a better deal for you in bad faith, because they can easily find out later, and while you might 'win' on this one trade, you hurt your credibility in the long run (which I think is very important and why JJ is a straight shooter in deals)

NFL GMs lie to each other all the time. I wouldn't worry about lying.

 

[BlueNSilver88]

NFL GMs lie to each other all the time. I wouldn't worry about lying.

It depends when and where you 'lie'...sure Jerry Jones 'misdirects' through the media, but I can guarantee you he doesn't intentionally mislead others in bad faith in actual negotiations on draft day

 

[Sydla]

It depends when and where you 'lie'...sure Jerry Jones 'misdirects' through the media, but I can guarantee you he doesn't intentionally mislead others in bad faith in actual negotiations on draft day

If you don't think NFL teams tell other NFL teams they have interest in their picks from other teams, even if they don't really have that interest, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[BlueNSilver88]

If you don't think NFL teams tell other NFL teams they have interest in their picks from other teams, even if they don't really have that interest, then I don't know what to tell you.

There's one thing to say a general 'interest' but to specifically say Phil or LA Rams? When they don't at all, and SF can easily find out later you acted in bad faith...if you dont see why this undermines your credibility in the long run ...then i dont know what to tell you.