7 years - it doesn't work

[DBOY3141]

2003 Big Bill took over and started to install the 3-4. It's now 2010 and it isn't working. Two different coordinators (not counting Coach P) and there has never been any consistency with this defense. When it has to have a stop, it can't do it.

I know there have been many threads about it. But I think minus a starting LB and a a couple of back-ups we have the personnel to switch and could be a much better 4-3.

Look at the Bears starting line-up and compare to what we would have.

Bears:

LE - Idonije 6-6 270
DT - Toeaina 6-2 308 (NFL.com has Harris listed as 2nd string, he is 6-3 295)
NT - Adams 6-0 310
RE - Peppers 6-7 283

SLB - Tinoisamoa 6-1 230
MLB - Urlacher 6-4 258
WLB - Briggs 6-1 242


Cowboys:

LE Spencer - 6-3 260 / Hatcher 6-6 311
DT Ratliff - 6-4 303 / Lissmore 6-4 306
NT Brent - 6-2 315 / Draft pick
RE Ware 6-4 262 / Bowen 6-5 306

SLB - Free Agent /Butler 6-3 246 / Leon Williams 6-3 248
MLB - James 6-2 245 / Draft Pick
WLB - Lee 6-2 242 / Brandon Williams 6-3 256

I just think we would get more pressure out of Ware/Spencer if all they had to do was put a hand on the ground and rush vs trying to cover.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Here we go again. Yawn....

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It's insane to say that the 34 didn't work last year.

And Bradie would be a disaster at MLB. Butler and Williams aren't 43 LBs, either.

 

[superpunk]

It has been nice to see Bobby Carpenter finally flourish in the NFL, proving once and for all that bad players can become servicable merely by switching defensive fronts.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Looks like someone forgot about our 4-3 from 1997 to 2003.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I can deal with people who have silly, asinine opinions so long as their opinion is rooted in knowledge

What I cannot stand are people who propose sweeping changes while clearly knowing nothing about the game of football. Seriously, have you ever played football at any level? How can you look at that group of linebackers and think there is any chance they could function effectively in a 4-3? This suggestion just baffles me. We do NOT have the personel to run a 4-3

 

[johnnyd]

Looks like someone forgot about our 4-3 from 1997 to 2003.

lol good one. personally i support a move back to the 4-3 as well but how about the 92-96 version

 

[The30YardSlant]

lol good one. personally i support a move back to the 4-3 as well but how about the 92-96 version

Wonderful. Now go find eight quality defensive linemen, a group of 4-3 linebackers and the second coming of Dave Wannstedt.

Go

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I can deal with people who have silly, asinine opinions so long as their opinion is rooted in knowledge

What I cannot stand are people who propose sweeping changes while clearly knowing nothing about the game of football. Seriously, have you ever played football at any level? How can you look at that group of linebackers and think there is any chance they could function effectively in a 4-3? This suggestion just baffles me. We do NOT have the personel to run a 4-3

Didn't you know? The real NFL is just like Madden where you could cut everyone on this defense, bring in all the people you need to be in a proper 4-3, and there would be absolutely no ramifications to those actions as long as you made sure to inform the league that you were turning off the salary cap option.

It's genius.

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

We don't need a change of fronts. We need some better players, and maybe a new DC. Honestly I kind of like what I've seen out of Pasqualoni's defensive schemes since he took over as the DC. Most of the deficiency I've seen has been personnel. It will make a huge difference when Brooking and both of our safeties are replaced by guys who are either athletic enough or have better instincts to be around the ball.

 

[jterrell]

2003 Big Bill took over and started to install the 3-4. It's now 2010 and it isn't working. Two different coordinators (not counting Coach P) and there has never been any consistency with this defense. When it has to have a stop, it can't do it.

First off let's look at your base premise here.

Does the 3-4 work?

The Dallas Cowboys have fielded some solid defenses over the years and we'll use scoring defense as the gauge. The Cowboys have finished 2nd in scoring three times. Once as a 4-3 defense under Jimmy in 1992 where we were a historic team. Then twice as a 3-4 and since 2003.

Now let's look at another goofy point of yours... we will get more out of Ware and Spencer as DEs.... HUH???

In a 4-3 these guys have to play the run and hold up the OT from getting to the LBs. They can't just attack except on certain plays or the team will just gash the run. Besides all that, Ware has been the best pass rusher in football for a few years now. He isn't going to get much more pressure because no one ever has. And the guys who did consistently get great pressure in the 4-3 were generally bigger, stronger guys. Can Ware do that? Yea, because he is that good period. But he won't be better, he'd be stagnant at best. He is naturally a 255-260 pound guy. Spencer is about the same size. Bulking them up by 10-15 pounds to handle the double teams in the run game they'll face will effect them in quickness.

As to Spencer specifically, he can not make that move right now. He simply is not strong enough right now to play the point of attack. He would have to go the other route and either back up Ware or go to a new team. He is not a starting caliber 4-3 SDE.

And as to LBs. Urlacher is a singular freak in skill set. This is a big strong safety who plays middle linebacker. We do not have a sideline to sideline LB. The closest guy is Ware but we can't use him everywhere. Bradie and Brooking are way too slow to be 4-3 LBs. Sean Lee could do it but he is small and leaves a gap elsewhere. And if you use Lee you must protect him with 300 pound DTs who hold up the blockers. Igor, Bowen, Brent, Hatcher, Lissemore perhaps would be good fits. At the end opposite Ware you probably have to use Ratliff there. He prefers it inside but he has the best strength, quickness ratio.

We'd still be short a couple linebackers. Guys who can really cover ground and make plays. The kinds of guys who get drafted early. the problem is we need to use some early draft selections on our OL. We can't use them overhauling this defense. And if we do fix the defense we need a safety horridly.

It's easy to post up size with the Bears this year but realize that defense has been back and forth between good and awful. They were 21st last year in points allowed but 2nd this year. They were 16th in both 2007 and 2008. They were dominant in some seasons and in the 20's in others.

 

[realtick]

Didn't you know? The real NFL is just like Madden where you could cut everyone on this defense, bring in all the people you need to be in a proper 4-3, and there would be absolutely no ramifications to those actions as long as you made sure to inform the league that you were turning off the salary cap option.

It's genius.

Whenver I play Madden Franchise mode, I always find a way to somehow strike a deal to get the No. 1 overall pick every year.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

2003 Big Bill took over and started to install the 3-4. It's now 2010 and it isn't working. Two different coordinators (not counting Coach P) and there has never been any consistency with this defense. When it has to have a stop, it can't do it.

I know there have been many threads about it. But I think minus a starting LB and a a couple of back-ups we have the personnel to switch and could be a much better 4-3.

Look at the Bears starting line-up and compare to what we would have.

Bears:

LE - Idonije 6-6 270
DT - Toeaina 6-2 308 (NFL.com has Harris listed as 2nd string, he is 6-3 295)
NT - Adams 6-0 310
RE - Peppers 6-7 283

SLB - Tinoisamoa 6-1 230
MLB - Urlacher 6-4 258
WLB - Briggs 6-1 242


Cowboys:

LE Spencer - 6-3 260 / Hatcher 6-6 311
DT Ratliff - 6-4 303 / Lissmore 6-4 306
NT Brent - 6-2 315 / Draft pick
RE Ware 6-4 262 / Bowen 6-5 306

SLB - Free Agent /Butler 6-3 246 / Leon Williams 6-3 248
MLB - James 6-2 245 / Draft Pick
WLB - Lee 6-2 242 / Brandon Williams 6-3 256

I just think we would get more pressure out of Ware/Spencer if all they had to do was put a hand on the ground and rush vs trying to cover.

well, most of NFL is converting to 3-4....hmmm

and weren't we top 10 defense and even top 5 for few years.

now, we got issues at Saftey, MLB and you want to pin it down on 3-4 not working.

do you think a 4-3 defense would work with our safties?

give me a break.....

 

[dbair1967]

2003 Big Bill took over and started to install the 3-4. It's now 2010 and it isn't working. Two different coordinators (not counting Coach P) and there has never been any consistency with this defense. When it has to have a stop, it can't do it.

I know there have been many threads about it. But I think minus a starting LB and a a couple of back-ups we have the personnel to switch and could be a much better 4-3.

Look at the Bears starting line-up and compare to what we would have.

Bears:

LE - Idonije 6-6 270
DT - Toeaina 6-2 308 (NFL.com has Harris listed as 2nd string, he is 6-3 295)
NT - Adams 6-0 310
RE - Peppers 6-7 283

SLB - Tinoisamoa 6-1 230
MLB - Urlacher 6-4 258
WLB - Briggs 6-1 242


Cowboys:

LE Spencer - 6-3 260 / Hatcher 6-6 311
DT Ratliff - 6-4 303 / Lissmore 6-4 306
NT Brent - 6-2 315 / Draft pick
RE Ware 6-4 262 / Bowen 6-5 306

SLB - Free Agent /Butler 6-3 246 / Leon Williams 6-3 248
MLB - James 6-2 245 / Draft Pick
WLB - Lee 6-2 242 / Brandon Williams 6-3 256

I just think we would get more pressure out of Ware/Spencer if all they had to do was put a hand on the ground and rush vs trying to cover.

We switched to the 3-4 in 2005, Parcells' 3rd yr.

Remind me again how dominant the Bears defense was the past few seasons.

 

[realtick]

There is an ebb and flow to the NFL and its schemes.

Right now the 3-4 is in vogue with a lot of teams and it's gonna take awhile for opposing offensive schemes to find a way to exploit it, and they will.

Then you're going to see teams going back to the "exotic" 4-3 look and they'll find some success because most offenses will be geared to attack the 3-4.

One development I do think you'll start seeing sometime soon is bigger athletes playing OLB in 3-4 schemes; guys like Julius Pepper and Michael Johnson (Cincy). Right now, your typical 3-4 OLB is somewhere between 6'2"-6'5" and 250-260 lbs (D. Ware, Orakapo, C. Matthews...etc.). I think you're gonna start seeing guys around 6'4"-6'6" 270-280 lbs start playing the spot. JMO

 

[CATCH17]

4-3 works better in Madden.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

4-3 works better in Madden.

Whooaaah!

 

[ScipioCowboy]

If, for some reason, Garrett wanted to transition to a 4-3, the only problem I foresee is outside linebacker.

The Cowboys could field a strong four man line. Price and Ratliff would start at defensive tackle, and Ware and Spears would start at end. Spencer would rotate in on passing downs. Moving to a four man line would actually benefit Ratliff and Spears, in my opinion.

Linebacker is problematic, though. In a modern 4-3 defense, middle linebackers must be able to cover tight ends twenty yards downfield. This requires a skill set that Bradie James simply does not possess. He would be exposed regularly, much like he was in Parcells' defense. Arguably, the greatest aspect of Wade's defense was its ability to mask James' deficiencies. He'll get no such protection in a 4-3 scheme.

The Cowboys have only one player capable of adequately manning the middle in a 4-3 defense: Sean Lee. And he would excel in this role, in my opinion.

But, once again, which players on the current Cowboys roster are capable of playing the outside linebacker positions? In a 4-3 defense, outside linebackers sacrifice size in exchange for increased agility and sideline-to-sideline speed. The only players who come close to meeting these requirements are Brandon Williams and Victor Butler.

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

People overanalyze this stuff anyway. The biggest fundamental difference in a 3-4 and a 4-3 is that in the 3-4 if you only rush 4 the other team shouldn't know which of the two OLBs is coming, instead of knowing they have to be ready for both of your 4-3 ends.

There are obviously more differences, but there is a reason more and more teams are switching to a 3-4 as the years go on. It's easier to pass rush as a 3-4 OLB than it is as a 4-3 end, so it's easier to get guys who can excel at it. A guy like James Harrison for example, would never have been a dominant pass rusher as a 4-3 end.

I don't foresee us changing back.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Looks like someone forgot about our 4-3 from 1997 to 2003.

And 2004 when our 4-3 was worst than this year's defense.





YR