7 years - it doesn't work

[Yakuza Rich]

People overanalyze this stuff anyway. The biggest fundamental difference in a 3-4 and a 4-3 is that in the 3-4 if you only rush 4 the other team shouldn't know which of the two OLBs is coming, instead of knowing they have to be ready for both of your 4-3 ends.

There are obviously more differences, but there is a reason more and more teams are switching to a 3-4 as the years go on. It's easier to pass rush as a 3-4 OLB than it is as a 4-3 end, so it's easier to get guys who can excel at it. A guy like James Harrison for example, would never have been a dominant pass rusher as a 4-3 end.

I don't foresee us changing back.

There are a lot of differences.

4-3 is actually more meant for run defense. The hand in the dirt is more geared towards defendng the run than standing up. Plus, in the 4-3 you can have the DE's switch sides, but if the TE motions to the other side, you usually never see the 4-3 DE's switch. They'll just stay where they are. 3-4 the OLB's, because they are standing up, can just switch and avoid the double with the OT and TE.

We need better safeties. Better play from Jenkins and Scandrick and more overall speed.






YR

 

[ConstantReboot]

2003 Big Bill took over and started to install the 3-4. It's now 2010 and it isn't working. Two different coordinators (not counting Coach P) and there has never been any consistency with this defense. When it has to have a stop, it can't do it.

I know there have been many threads about it. But I think minus a starting LB and a a couple of back-ups we have the personnel to switch and could be a much better 4-3.

Look at the Bears starting line-up and compare to what we would have.

Bears:

LE - Idonije 6-6 270
DT - Toeaina 6-2 308 (NFL.com has Harris listed as 2nd string, he is 6-3 295)
NT - Adams 6-0 310
RE - Peppers 6-7 283

SLB - Tinoisamoa 6-1 230
MLB - Urlacher 6-4 258
WLB - Briggs 6-1 242


Cowboys:

LE Spencer - 6-3 260 / Hatcher 6-6 311
DT Ratliff - 6-4 303 / Lissmore 6-4 306
NT Brent - 6-2 315 / Draft pick
RE Ware 6-4 262 / Bowen 6-5 306

SLB - Free Agent /Butler 6-3 246 / Leon Williams 6-3 248
MLB - James 6-2 245 / Draft Pick
WLB - Lee 6-2 242 / Brandon Williams 6-3 256

I just think we would get more pressure out of Ware/Spencer if all they had to do was put a hand on the ground and rush vs trying to cover.

Sorry no thanks to a 4-3 defense. I will wait till the end of the year where Garrett can find a reliable DC for the 3-4.

BTW we never had problems with our 3-4 last year. I don't know why your asserting that it was a disaster.

 

[The Quest for Six]

2003 Big Bill took over and started to install the 3-4. It's now 2010 and it isn't working. Two different coordinators (not counting Coach P) and there has never been any consistency with this defense. When it has to have a stop, it can't do it.

I know there have been many threads about it. But I think minus a starting LB and a a couple of back-ups we have the personnel to switch and could be a much better 4-3.

Look at the Bears starting line-up and compare to what we would have.

Bears:

LE - Idonije 6-6 270
DT - Toeaina 6-2 308 (NFL.com has Harris listed as 2nd string, he is 6-3 295)
NT - Adams 6-0 310
RE - Peppers 6-7 283

SLB - Tinoisamoa 6-1 230
MLB - Urlacher 6-4 258
WLB - Briggs 6-1 242


Cowboys:

LE Spencer - 6-3 260 / Hatcher 6-6 311
DT Ratliff - 6-4 303 / Lissmore 6-4 306
NT Brent - 6-2 315 / Draft pick
RE Ware 6-4 262 / Bowen 6-5 306

SLB - Free Agent /Butler 6-3 246 / Leon Williams 6-3 248
MLB - James 6-2 245 / Draft Pick
WLB - Lee 6-2 242 / Brandon Williams 6-3 256

I just think we would get more pressure out of Ware/Spencer if all they had to do was put a hand on the ground and rush vs trying to cover.

Parcells didn't install the 3-4 until his third year

 

[The Quest for Six]

And 2004 when our 4-3 was worst than this year's defense.





YR

and Parcells wouldn't let Zimmer run the defense and open the playbook and blitz..

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Whenver I play Madden Franchise mode, I always find a way to somehow strike a deal to get the No. 1 overall pick every year.

Careful now. If you say that sort of thing to much around here there are going to be people wanting to make you the GM cause you've learned the crazy arts of the Madden force.

 

[big dog cowboy]

4-3 works better in Madden.

:madden:

 

[burmafrd]

Zimmer had never run a 3-4 and should not have been kept. Bp spent his last two years training Zimmer in the 3-4; one of the reasons it stayed so basic.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

Whenver I play Madden Franchise mode, I always find a way to somehow strike a deal to get the No. 1 overall pick every year.

Yeah, In Madden Franchise, if you play the pre-season, don't advance to the regular season, and put your #1 pick on the trade block and ask for a 1st, 2nd, and 4th, you will always have at least 2 crappy teams willing to make that trade. Why doesn't it work in real life? =(
Our 1st for the Bills 1st, 2nd, and 4th, would be a pretty fair trade. Right?

Also, 3-4 gets way more pressure in Madden than 4-3 if you run it right. But 4-6 is where it's at.

As for the OP. I'm a much larger fan of the 3-4 than the 4-3. We have personnel for it. The fact that we aren't doing that well speaks of the scheme/personnel, not the 3-4. Pretty sure the Steelers/Jets are just fine with their 3-4 schemes.

 

[Hostile]

Our best player is a 3-4 OLB.




Sorry, just wanted to state a very obvious fact that apparently isn't completely obvious to some people.

 

[realtick]

As for the OP. I'm a much larger fan of the 3-4 than the 4-3. We have personnel for it. The fact that we aren't doing that well speaks of the scheme/personnel, not the 3-4. Pretty sure the Steelers/Jets are just fine with their 3-4 schemes.

That's a good point.

I think on paper this team's starting defensive squad is right up there (if not better than most) as far as talent level with any other team that runs the 3-4.

However, when I watch the Steelers and Jets they seem to just play with a different type of demeanor and ferocity than we do. This defense just doesn't have an identity and I can't figure out whether it's the coaching staff or the players (or maybe both).

 

[zrinkill]

Our best player is a 3-4 OLB.

I agree ..... but I also think he would be an even better 4-3 DE

 

[Hostile]

I agree ..... but I also think he would be an even better 4-3 DE

No way.

 

[Vintage]

No way.

I agree with zrin.

Ware's best skill is his pass rush. He's better as a pass rusher than dropping into coverage.

You'd virtually eliminate his need to drop into coverage (other than the random zone blitz) and let him do what he does best, rush the QB, on every passing play.

Yes... our best player is a 3-4 OLB. And if we switched to the 4-3, Ware would be a 4-3 DE... and our best defensive player would then be a 4-3 DE.

Ware is going to excel in any scheme.



That being said, I do not think switching to the 4-3 is some end all, cure all for the defense. I think our DL would be fine. We'd need to remake our LB group. But we probably need to do that in the offseason, anyway.

 

[wileedog]

Our best player is a 3-4 OLB.

Sorry, just wanted to state a very obvious fact that apparently isn't completely obvious to some people.

I don't have a dog in this one, but I will point out arguably our 2nd best defensive player is getting beat up because he's too small to be an every down 3-4 NT. Ratlif would be an outstanding 4-3 DT conversely.

Not to mention that in a defense that features LBers, 3 of the 4 we have out there are inconsistent at best, and exploitable in many situations at worst.

I personally like the 3-4, but to those that say we don't have the personnel to run a 4-3, I'd counter what we have out there for our 3-4 isn't very good either.

 

[jobberone]

There is an ebb and flow to the NFL and its schemes.

Right now the 3-4 is in vogue with a lot of teams and it's gonna take awhile for opposing offensive schemes to find a way to exploit it, and they will.

Then you're going to see teams going back to the "exotic" 4-3 look and they'll find some success because most offenses will be geared to attack the 3-4.

One development I do think you'll start seeing sometime soon is bigger athletes playing OLB in 3-4 schemes; guys like Julius Pepper and Michael Johnson (Cincy). Right now, your typical 3-4 OLB is somewhere between 6'2"-6'5" and 250-260 lbs (D. Ware, Orakapo, C. Matthews...etc.). I think you're gonna start seeing guys around 6'4"-6'6" 270-280 lbs start playing the spot. JMO

Not sure you're going to find a lot of guys who at 280 can cover.

 

[Doomsday]

Its not like we have all the personnel to run a 3-4 well right now. So Im not really sure what the difference is between having a few guys out of position now in the 3-4 or in a 4-3? Either way there are some holes to fill.

I am fine with going in what ever direction the new head coach prefers.

 

[nflandbooze]

So since Dallas hasn't won big with it, we should ignore the fact that 5 of the last 9 Super Bowl winners have successfully utilized it?

The scheme isn't that bad. You just have to have the right players and coaches to pull it off.

 

[trickblue]

Sorry no thanks to a 4-3 defense. I will wait till the end of the year where Garrett can find a reliable DC for the 3-4.

BTW we never had problems with our 3-4 last year. I don't know why your asserting that it was a disaster.

According to one of the beat writers, Pasqueloni will be Garrett's guy as DC, plus Jerry loves him and already has him under contract...

This is my only issue with JG as HC thus far...

 

[LUVDABOYS]

I don't have a dog in this one, but I will point out arguably our 2nd best defensive player is getting beat up because he's too small to be an every down 3-4 NT. Ratlif would be an outstanding 4-3 DT conversely.

Not to mention that in a defense that features LBers, 3 of the 4 we have out there are inconsistent at best, and exploitable in many situations at worst.

I personally like the 3-4, but to those that say we don't have the personnel to run a 4-3, I'd counter what we have out there for our 3-4 isn't very good either.

Gotta go with this:signmast:

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Here we go again. Yawn....

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