A closer look at Norv's time in Washington

[silverbear]

We've heard opinions about whether or not he was a failure in DC, and defenders saying that until Dan Snyder came on board in 1999 (the next to last season of Norv's tenure there), he had the team "turned around", "headed in the right direction"... actually, a number of the defenders apparently believed that Danny Boy hired Norv, and of course Norv had been there a while when the Mad Midget showed up...

So I decided to refresh my memory about the Norv era, and look up his bio on Wikipedia... here's what I learned:

The year before Norv was hired, the Skins were 4-12... they were, simply, a team in disarray... his first two years there, they went 3-13, then showed a modest improvement, to 6-10...

Then in the next 4 seasons, the Skins went 9-7, 8-7-1, 6-10 and 10-6, an overall 33-31-1 record... they had reached mediocrity, actually a little better than mediocrity, since it would appear that 6-10 record was a bit of an aberration (I seem to remember the Skins got hammered by injuries in 98, but I'm not entirely confident about my memories on this one)...

The 10-6 season was the first year of the Dan Snyder era... presumably, Danny Boy didn't go around changing everything wholesale that year... but in year 2, the Skins regressed to 8-8, Danny Boy panicked and fired Turner... I find it easy to believe that part of the reason for the regression was the meddling of the Mad Midget...

And the Skins went steady downhill from there over the next 4 seasons, going 8-8, 7-9, 5-11 and 6-10, which would tend to support that subjective opinion...

So those who say that Norv's lack of success in Washington isn't because of Danny Boy are mostly right, it was only at the end of that time that Danny Boy was on the scene... but it sure looks like Norv had done a fair to middling job of bringing a team in the dumper back to respectability before Danny Boy showed up...

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

We've heard opinions about whether or not he was a failure in DC, and defenders saying that until Dan Snyder came on board in 1999 (the next to last season of Norv's tenure there), he had the team "turned around", "headed in the right direction"... actually, a number of the defenders apparently believed that Danny Boy hired Norv, and of course Norv had been there a while when the Mad Midget showed up...

So I decided to refresh my memory about the Norv era, and look up his bio on Wikipedia... here's what I learned:

The year before Norv was hired, the Skins were 4-12... they were, simply, a team in disarray... his first two years there, they went 3-13, then showed a modest improvement, to 6-10...

Then in the next 4 seasons, the Skins went 9-7, 8-7-1, 6-10 and 10-6, an overall 33-31-1 record... they had reached mediocrity, actually a little better than mediocrity, since it would appear that 6-10 record was a bit of an aberration (I seem to remember the Skins got hammered by injuries in 98, but I'm not entirely confident about my memories on this one)...

The 10-6 season was the first year of the Dan Snyder era... presumably, Danny Boy didn't go around changing everything wholesale that year... but in year 2, the Skins regressed to 8-8, Danny Boy panicked and fired Turner... I find it easy to believe that part of the reason for the regression was the meddling of the Mad Midget...

And the Skins went steady downhill from there over the next 4 seasons, going 8-8, 7-9, 5-11 and 6-10, which would tend to support that subjective opinion...

So those who say that Norv's lack of success in Washington isn't because of Danny Boy are mostly right, it was only at the end of that time that Danny Boy was on the scene... but it sure looks like Norv had done a fair to middling job of bringing a team in the dumper back to respectability before Danny Boy showed up...

Agree 100% (for what little that's worth!). Norv will put some emphasis on getting some better players on the offensive side of the ball and work wonders for Romo and Garrett. The key to his success is if they get a good defensive coordinator.

 

[kingwhicker]

9-7, 8-7-1, 6-10 and 10-6-

Parcells, is that you? Oh wait, no there was a playoff win in there too- nevermind.

 

[Tobal]

Who was his DC then? Who were his personell men?

 

[Gaede]

none of those numbers inspire much confidence

 

[Cochese]

9-7, 8-7-1, 6-10 and 10-6-

Parcells, is that you? Oh wait, no there was a playoff win in there too- nevermind.

Mediocrity retires, only for Jerry to go out and hire more mediocrity.

 

[cowboyfan4life_mark]

I've heard and read alot on Jason Garret coming to the Cowboys and how an addition of Turner would really help him to be a future HC.

How about the defense? I haven't read or heard a thing about JG having a teacher in that regard. And if he is indeed the heir to the HC throne, I for one would feel a little better if he knew both sides of the ball. Not saying that he won't/can't, just wanting a DC here that can tutor him in that aspect of the game.

Just my two cents.

 

[kingwhicker]

Mediocrity retires, only for Jerry to go out and hire more mediocrity.

Bingo. Norv doesn't have the greatest OL in the history of football, Emmitt, Aikman, Irvin, Daryl Johnston or Novacek to rely on now.

 

[LatinMind]

Then in the next 4 seasons, the Skins went 9-7, 8-7-1, 6-10 and 10-6, an overall 33-31-1 record... they had reached mediocrity, actually a little better than mediocrity

isnt that basically an identical record as parcells in his 4 yrs here with better talent?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

"Mediocrity"...

"Fair-to-middling"....

Yippee!!!

 

[Cochese]

isnt that basically an identical record as parcells in his 4 yrs here with better talent?

What a ringing endorsement.

 

[MossBurner]

Skins fan here to give a bid of insight to Norv's time in DC. The three things that come to mind first.

1. Inconsistent, bad play-calling. Skins fans were excited about Norv coming in because of his role guiding the awesome Cowboys offense to 3 Super Bowls. The Hall of Fame talent wasn't there for him, but the play calling was odd, at best. Very frustrating.

2. Undisciplined players and performance. What more can be said here. Training Camp was like recess at elementary school. 4 or 5 false starts every game. Internal fighting and complaining.

3. Awful drafts!

Bottom line is that Norv is a mediocre HC. He's had his chances and has never performed. But, he could do better than Parcells...Who knows?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

at least we have Jeff Ireland

God, that's the only positive I can see from this hiring

 

[dwmyers]

If a casual comment by Jimmy Johnson is to be believed (and I can't reference it, to be honest) Norv's weakest element is talent evaluation. I tend to think that talent evaluation (coaches and players) is Parcell's strength.

If Mr Ireland is as good as we hope he is, and if JJ will stay out of making talent decisions, and if Norv can defer to the scouts, then we stand a fighting chance.

Otherwise, I would stick with the common wisdom here.

** Our best chance of success is a young new defensive coach: Rex Ryan or Ron Rivera.

** Wade Phillips is a good experienced choice because he is a defensive minded coach. I think this is the best experienced coach we could get.

** I don't think Norv is a bad choice, but it places a lot of emphasis on getting a good young defensive coordinator in place in Dallas. It also means the scouting department needs to be aggressive and independent in its judgements.

David.

 

[hank2k]

Jesus, now we've got 7 years of "fair to middlin" to look forward to before we can run this guy off ???uke:

 

[bbgun]

Even if he was a raving success in Washington, that doesn't mean he'd be so in Dallas. Hell, I don't think Jimmy could come close to replicating the glory years. Face it: he's an uninspiring, milquetoast kind of guy who knows offense ... and most of our woes are on defense.

 

[Kalyan]

So if we hire Norv, we added a bright new offensive mind in JG and a offensive guru in Norv, both on offensive side of the ball and we already have Sporano.

What about defensive side? We lost Parcells/Zimmer on defensive side and only Todd Bowles is left to handle the mess

Anybody worried about our defense for next yera?

 

[silverbear]

9-7, 8-7-1, 6-10 and 10-6-

Parcells, is that you? Oh wait, no there was a playoff win in there too- nevermind.

Way to miss the point, hoss... it's almost like you don't WANT to see the point being made...

I'd enlighten you, but you appear to be happy in your blissful ignorance, and I can't quite convince myself that you're worth enlightening...

So have fun in your little coccoon of despair, and enjoy the offseason...

 

[silverbear]

Mediocrity retires, only for Jerry to go out and hire more mediocrity.

Seems none of you cynics are bright enough to figure out that the CIRCUMSTANCES of his first two coaching gigs were somewhat less than optimal...

Rather, you tell yourselves that because he's had mixed success to no success in his two previous stops, he'll never ever be worth a hammered crap...

To which I'll simply respond that Hall of Fame coach Sid Gillman took over a Rams team that had gone 23-11-2 the previous 3 seasons, a good team, and put up a disappointing 28-32-1 record with them, ultimately getting fired...

None of you guys would have ever even thought about giving him a job after that, not if you followed the "logic" you're employing here...

You would have missed out on a Hall of Fame coach...

None of you would have kept Tom Landry around after his fifth straight losing season with the Cowboys back in the 60s, either...

 

[Gaede]

circumstance doesn't excuse sucking it up for seven years