A critical, but largely unnoticed play yesterday

[TwoDeep3]

Not gonna play. Describe a sunset to a blind man

Sorry, I disagree. I would be more inclined to suspect the assistants and this new talent coordinator have more to do with the results we see than anything else.

 

[erod]

A QB in his 12th year should damn well know all about the 40 second clock. Period.. This is deer in the headlights rookie crap here. Nothing to do with the coaching staff, other than someone should've been screaming "TIMEOUT!!!", TIMEOUT!!!".. Either in Romo's headset or on the sideline.

But here's the problem. Out of a timeout, it's only a 25-second clock. I've seen this mess up multiple teams. They piddle around when the whistle is blown, and you can tell they're not accounting for that lost 15 seconds.

Not an excuse, but I've seen this happen.

 

[Hook'em#11]

We were playing a front that consistently showed blitz and then dropped into coverage, so Romo was going through more adjustments at the line than he might against another defense. This is pretty common stuff. He screwed up on the play coming out of the TO and we got dinged. That's not good, but it's not exactly the end of the world.

And it's been explained, many times, why Romo prefers to get the defense to commit over varying the snap. You don't have to like it, but let's not pretend there's not a good reason why he does it. It's his ball game, so he gets to do it the way he thinks he can be most competitive. If that makes you nervous as you see the little five second clock come up while he's making adjustments, well, you'll just have to be nervous a bit.

Not nervous one bit for me. It is what it is..

Still does not excuse taking a delay of game, backed up on their own 20 or so. You have the lead. Run the ball, no matter what D they are running. Make them waste their timeouts, not give them momentum, and a stopped clock..

It was ridiculous..

Romo isn't doing the rest of his teammates any favors by waiting until the last second..

He is doing a favor for the opposing defense though..

 

[Idgit]

Not nervous one bit for me. It is what it is..

Still does not excuse taking a delay of game, backed up on their own 20 or so. You have the lead. Run the ball, no matter what D they are running. Make them waste their timeouts, not give them momentum, and a stopped clock..

It was ridiculous..

Romo isn't doing the rest of his teammates any favors by waiting until the last second..

He is doing a favor for the opposing defense though..

It was a bad play. I agree.

But you're just wrong that waiting to the last second doesn't serve a purpose.

 

[Dodger12]

I should have said four, I forgot about Free (whose days are numbered, btw). Dez, Free, Witten, and Romo.

Scandrick was largely in the dog house. Church and Brent were nobodies. Ladouceur....c'mon. And Lee isn't ever here.

The point is, the Garrett bashers are so wildly off base, it's comical. Especially considering that you will NEVER, and I mean never, see a big name coach in here ever again. Jerry won't have it. You'll just get another Wade or Chan Gailey.

Garrett is trying to rebuild this team into a different animal. He's young and has made mistakes, just like all coaches, but he's 80 percent finished. He has the moxie and patience to withstand Jerry's idiocy and keep his composure, and he truly understands what this franchise is supposed to be about.

Let's see this through.

I really dig your "Death Star" avatar by the way.

I hear you but your inference was that Garrett turned over the whole roster with the exception of 3 people. Whether or not folks were in the dog house or didn't play much still has no bearing on the point you're making. They were on the team then and they're still here. Most are starters (when healthy).

The Cowboys have done no more or less in terms of roster turnover than most every other team in the salary cap era. In another 4 years, the roster turnover will, most probably, be about the same. No offense, but if you think the Garrett bashers are wildly off base, you're kind of right there with them when your numbers go from 3 to 10 but I understand the point you're trying to make but it's just not unique in today's NFL.

I can see this through and we're 4 and 1. I'm not ready to anoint Garrett yet because I've seen his handy work for the past 3 years. You think he's building something and I think he's made mistakes that I don't expect to see in a high school game. We can agree to disagree because, int he end, it's the results that will matter most. No matter who we credit for the current record, Sunday will be fun to watch and may be a good barometer to measure where this team is.

 

[Hook'em#11]

It was a bad play. I agree.

But you're just wrong that waiting to the last second doesn't serve a purpose.

Orrr.....

I just don't like the fact that the opposing defense can jump right off because they know that at the last second, he has get the play off. I don't think it's "wrong" either way. I just don't think it helps.. What is the purpose? Are the opposing defenses that Dallas's QB is seeing so much different then any other defense the QB has seen in the past 12 yrs? Or, better yet... Past 20 or so years He has been playing.. Gimme a break. These "same" defenses in the NFL play against other NFL offenses and I don't see those QB's doing that.. The defenses that play Dallas know what Tony does, That gives them the edge right there..

 

[jday]

Yes, it was a really good play by Dunbar. He reacted instantly to go make that tackle.

I've heard they're moving him to defense now.

He might be an improvement over Claiborne...I say, try him at corner.

 

[Idgit]

Orrr.....

I just don't like the fact that the opposing defense can jump right off because they know that at the last second, he has get the play off. I don't think it's "wrong" either way. I just don't think it helps.. What is the purpose? Are the opposing defenses that Dallas's QB is seeing so much different then any other defense the QB has seen in the past 12 yrs? Or, better yet... Past 20 or so years He has been playing.. Gimme a break. These "same" defenses in the NFL play against other NFL offenses and I don't see those QB's doing that.. The defenses that play Dallas know what Tony does, That gives them the edge right there..

This same argument happens every time this topic arises. One, the DLs are down linemen, and they are not looking at the play clock. Two, any benefit they might get from getting a jump on the start of the play is offset by the fact that the defense has to show what it's really intending to do by the time the ball is snapped, so you have a QB whose strength is reading, deciding, and releasing quickly getting the benefit of that last second tell, which he obviously wants to get or he wouldn't be using all the time he's got to make adjustments at the line.

And you're just not watching closely if you think other NFL offenses don't make more adjustments against teams who show blitz than they do against teams that don't. Because everybody does.

 

[Frozen700]

I don't think it's about him playing well. He's just playing hard.

For all the detractors of this head coach, you can not say his players don't give effort.

I believe Jerry did a good Job of sticking with him then?

Or you rather not acknowledge that?

 

[Hook'em#11]

This same argument happens every time this topic arises. One, the DLs are down linemen, and they are not looking at the play clock. Two, any benefit they might get from getting a jump on the start of the play is offset by the fact that the defense has to show what it's really intending to do by the time the ball is snapped, so you have a QB whose strength is reading, deciding, and releasing quickly getting the benefit of that last second tell, which he obviously wants to get or he wouldn't be using all the time he's got to make adjustments at the line.

And you're just not watching closely if you think other NFL offenses don't make more adjustments against teams who show blitz than they do against teams that don't. Because everybody does.

Oh, gawd... Forget it.. It's been stated by opposing defenses in the past about the Cowboys and Romo.. I don't need to watch closely, or look at the so called "tape".. It's been stated.

 

[BigStar]

Orrr.....

I just don't like the fact that the opposing defense can jump right off because they know that at the last second, he has get the play off. I don't think it's "wrong" either way. I just don't think it helps.. What is the purpose? Are the opposing defenses that Dallas's QB is seeing so much different then any other defense the QB has seen in the past 12 yrs? Or, better yet... Past 20 or so years He has been playing.. Gimme a break. These "same" defenses in the NFL play against other NFL offenses and I don't see those QB's doing that.. The defenses that play Dallas know what Tony does, That gives them the edge right there..

Agree. If it is such a great advantage, why are we the only team incorporating it?

 

[BigStar]

This same argument happens every time this topic arises. One, the DLs are down linemen, and they are not looking at the play clock. Two, any benefit they might get from getting a jump on the start of the play is offset by the fact that the defense has to show what it's really intending to do by the time the ball is snapped, so you have a QB whose strength is reading, deciding, and releasing quickly getting the benefit of that last second tell, which he obviously wants to get or he wouldn't be using all the time he's got to make adjustments at the line.

And you're just not watching closely if you think other NFL offenses don't make more adjustments against teams who show blitz than they do against teams that don't. Because everybody does.

The last second tell? The only thing last second is blitz pickup which could also be slowed so that opponents LBs aren't timing their blitzes PERFECTLY bc we are sooo smaaattt. Wouldn't D's become aware of our tendency and simply account for it (lack of disguise/change D @ the snap, etc.)? It's Romo winging it (audibles and OL blitz pick up until the last second), and that's okay sometimes, but not every snap or when in hostile territory, or know that we are running a simple dive play (HOU), etc.

 

[erod]

I hear you but your inference was that Garrett turned over the whole roster with the exception of 3 people. Whether or not folks were in the dog house or didn't play much still has no bearing on the point you're making. They were on the team then and they're still here. Most are starters (when healthy).

The Cowboys have done no more or less in terms of roster turnover than most every other team in the salary cap era. In another 4 years, the roster turnover will, most probably, be about the same. No offense, but if you think the Garrett bashers are wildly off base, you're kind of right there with them when your numbers go from 3 to 10 but I understand the point you're trying to make but it's just not unique in today's NFL.

I can see this through and we're 4 and 1. I'm not ready to anoint Garrett yet because I've seen his handy work for the past 3 years. You think he's building something and I think he's made mistakes that I don't expect to see in a high school game. We can agree to disagree because, int he end, it's the results that will matter most. No matter who we credit for the current record, Sunday will be fun to watch and may be a good barometer to measure where this team is.

Again, you're missing the point.

Garrett completely changed the culture and philosophy that Jerry loved so much. He cleaned house of high-priced veterans, which Jerry despises. He went blue collar in the draft, something that Jerry REALLY despises. He talked Jerry into eating countless millions on declining players like Gurode, Davis, Newman, Ware, Austin, Barber, the Roy Williams brothers, etc. Gone are Felix, Jenkins, Hatcher, etc.

No other coach could have gotten him to do this. The stadium is built, so he's not going big name. Garrett is like family to him, so he listened.

And know this.

All coaches make coaching blunders through the season. Pete Carroll does all the time, but his team is so good, you don't remember them. Or, Denver is so far ahead, they don't even come up.

Romo has single-handedly made a 4-12 team a playoff contender every year. Garrett and the staff have had to go the "smoke and mirrors" route with these thing every Sunday.

Until now. The offense is legit, and the defense at least of NFL caliber now. They can now make a legitimate run at the playoffs without duct tape and Elmer's glue.

If Romo can still play the next two years, this could be a true title contender. Still another offseason needed.

 

[Idgit]

The last second tell? The only thing last second is blitz pickup which could also be slowed so that opponents LBs aren't timing their blitzes PERFECTLY bc we are sooo smaaattt. Wouldn't D's become aware of our tendency and simply account for it (lack of disguise/change D @ the snap, etc.)? It's Romo winging it (audibles and OL blitz pick up until the last second), and that's okay sometimes, but not every snap or when in hostile territory, or know that we are running a simple dive play (HOU), etc.

I suppose they can try. If they adapt by not disguising/changing, that's a win. If they want to make change after the snap, there's nothing you're going to do about that, but the same can be said of any defense no matter when you snap the ball, so it doesn't make what Romo does a liability.

If Romo doesn't think it's an advantage, why do you guys think the does it? He can snap it earlier if he wants to. And, if he does think it's an advantage to wait, I can't figure why anybody would have a problem with it in the first place.

 

[erod]

Agree. If it is such a great advantage, why are we the only team incorporating it?

All teams have this problem. There are so many checks and adjustments these days, it takes too long.

I hate the last second snap because the defense can tee off.

 

[BigStar]

I suppose they can try. If they adapt by not disguising/changing, that's a win. If they want to make change after the snap, there's nothing you're going to do about that, but the same can be said of any defense no matter when you snap the ball, so it doesn't make what Romo does a liability.

If Romo doesn't think it's an advantage, why do you guys think the does it? He can snap it earlier if he wants to. And, if he does think it's an advantage to wait, I can't figure why anybody would have a problem with it in the first place.

Over thinking each play, trying to get in that one last audible or adjustment bf the snap. Sometimes it seems to help him but not those he is directing (chaos). But he is a vet and prefers the ability to adjust, one last time, before snapping. Gives the DL, but more importantly, the blitzing the defenders the advantage of disguising their own pressures knowing this tendency. Simple motion can usually determine man/zone and the other reads he is making are adjusting routes to fit that coverage (I assume). But letting the playcock get that low on 3rd and long in no way benefits the O (even if Romo is comfortable doing it, that doesn't mean it helps pass protection or receivers beat a press coverage).

 

[erod]

On the flip side, the pre-snap penalties are way down this year. Dallas is playing a much cleaner game this year from a penalty standpoint. Now if we could just get CJ Spillman to stop holding on punts.

 

[Idgit]

Over thinking each play, trying to get in that one last audible or adjustment bf the snap. Sometimes it seems to help him but not those he is directing (chaos). But he is a vet and prefers the ability to adjust, one last time, before snapping. Gives the DL, but more importantly, the blitzing the defenders the advantage of disguising their own pressures knowing this tendency. Simple motion can usually determine man/zone and the other reads he is making are adjusting routes to fit that coverage (I assume). But letting the playcock get that low on 3rd and long in no way benefits the O (even if Romo is comfortable doing it, that doesn't mean it helps pass protection or receivers beat a press coverage).

Interesting take, I guess. Personally, I'd say it's naive to think with that many coaches and that much film review that it comes down to Tony Romo's desire to always overthink things and that 5 OCs, 3 HCs and one full-time QBC can't correct it with him. I think, instead, that he does it because he's making adjustments that he obviously feels are necessary to make that particular down successful. And, since he's got a track record of being a pretty effective passer, I think I'm ok with it.

So, yeah, I'm comfortable dismissing out of hand the notion that making the adjustments 'in no way benefits the O.' Until or unless I see something that suggests an actual reason for why he'd continue doing something that's actually a liability.

 

[BigStar]

Interesting take, I guess. Personally, I'd say it's naive to think with that many coaches and that much film review that it comes down to Tony Romo's desire to always overthink things and that 5 OCs, 3 HCs and one full-time QBC can't correct it with him. I think, instead, that he does it because he's making adjustments that he obviously feels are necessary to make that particular down successful. And, since he's got a track record of being a pretty effective passer, I think I'm ok with it.

So, yeah, I'm comfortable dismissing out of hand the notion that making the adjustments 'in no way benefits the O.' Until or unless I see something that suggests an actual reason for why he'd continue doing something that's actually a liability.

Then why are we the only team that does this or justifies it as some strategic advantage? More like those 5 OCs, 3 HCs, and one full time QB Coach don't have enough sway (JJ?) to get him to change this aspect? Not saying he has to rid this aspect completely, just not in crtical passing downs where communication is key and on 3rd and short as to not give the LB/DL/S a jump on the ball carrier. Linehan is one of the few in recent memory that has told Tony NO (audibles out of running plays). Not something he has been used to hearing since BP. More like, you (TY) may feel comfortable but this structure surely hasn't resulted in formal structure and efficiency on O...(until this season). What has changed this season (JG being told to sit down)?

 

[Idgit]

Then why are we the only team that does this or justifies it as some strategic advantage? More like those 5 OCs, 3 HCs, and one full time QB Coach don't have enough sway (JJ?) to get him to change this aspect? Linehan is one of the few in recent memory that has told Tony NO. Not something he has been used to hearing since BP.

What makes you think we're the only team who does it?

And why in the world would we do it if it's not because we think it's an advantage? To believe what you want to believe here, you simply have to suspend too much critical thought in order to accept the premise. 'Don't have enough sway to get him to change' something that, in your opinion, doesn't work? I'm sorry, but that's so far from passing the smell test it's not even funny. Of *course* they'd change it if they didn't think it worked. Of course Tony would be open to changing it if his coaches had an issue with it. Of course it works, as evidence by our effectiveness in the passing game. Just, all around. The only reason we're talking about it at all is because it bugs fans who see the clock counting down, get nervous that we're going to run out of time, and then conclude that the extra time is unnecessary as a result.