A look at offensive lines around the league...

[junk]

With all the talk of the offensive line's struggles, I thought I'd take a look at some of the better lines around the league. I think people want to throw money at the OL in the offseason, but is that really the best plan? I wanted to take a closer look at how teams assembled their OLs and who coaches them.

Let's take a closer look:

Kansas City: Willie Roaf, Brian Waters, Casey Weigman, Will Shields, John Welbourn

Roaf was originally a first round pick for NO. Traded to KC for a 3rd rounder I believe.

Waters was ironically cut by Dallas as a rookie free agent in 99.

Weigmann was another rookie free agent who signed with Chiefs as an UFA from Chicago.

Shields was a third round pick homegrown by the Chiefs.

Welbourne was a fourth round pick of the Eagles who was traded to the Chiefs for a 3rd and a 5th

Coach Mike Solari has been the Chiefs OL coach for 9 years. Been in the NFL for 17 and coached OL for 14 years in the NFL.

Seattle Seahawks: Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson, Robbie Tobeck, Chris Gray, Sean Locklear.

Jones was a first round pick for Seattle.

Hutchinson was a first round pick for Seattle.

Tobeck was originally an undrafted FA for Atlanta. Signed with Seattle as a FA in 2000.

Gray was a fifth round draft choice of the Dolphins

Locklear was a third round draft choice of the Seahawks.

The coach is Bill Laveroni. A 34 year coaching vet who has coached OL for 21 years. He was groomed to take over the 'Hawks line from Tom Lovat who was another long time OL coach who fell out of the Bill Walsh coaching tree.

Indianapolis Colts: Tarik Glenn, Ryan Lilja, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, Ryan Diem.

Glenn was a first round draft choice.

Lilja was an undrafted free agent originally with the Chiefs.

Saturday was an undrafted free agent originally with Baltimore.

Scott was a fifth round draft choice.

Diem was a fourth round draft choice.

The coach is Howard Mudd who is in his 8th year coaching the Colts offensive line and his 32th year as a NFL OL coach.

Denver Broncos: Matt Lepsis, Ben Hamilton, Tom Nalen, Carlise Cooper, George Foster.

Lepsis was originally an undrafted FA of the Broncos.

Hamilton was a fourth round pick of the Broncos.

Nalen was originally a seventh round pick of the Broncos.

Cooper was a fourth round pick of the Broncos.

Foster was a first round pick of the Broncos.

The coach is Rich Dennison who is in his 5th year as Denver's OL coach. He has been with the Broncos for 11 years (so he got tutored by Alex Gibbs in case you wondered why I tossed that fact in there).

There are other good lines, but these were a few that I thought highly of. If anybody else wants to break down others, feel free. This is all I had time for.

So, what can we take from this? Tackle (especially LT) is a common place to use a high round draft pick on the OL. However, for the most part, the list is littered with later round draft picks and undrafted free agents.

What is the other common denominator? Long time offensive line coaches with extensive experience in the area of OL. Some with some terrific coaching mentors along the way.

The final denominator is that many of these guys were either homegrown or guys with several years of experience playing together.

My thoughts? I am not so sure throwing money at big money free agents or high draft picks is the answer. I think Dallas should pursue a legit offensive line coach. I think they need to establish a long term vision for the offensive line and start grooming young guys in that system. A patch work offensive line of free agents and new draft picks will probably be just that. A patch work offensive line.

Anyway, thought it was interesting. What do you think?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Good post. Thanks for taking the time to research all of that.

The OL is a very difficult area of the team to get right. I agree that big money and high draft picks do not always equate to OL success. Some of the best OL of all-time were FAs and lower round picks. I think time together and experience are vitally important qualities and good coaching of course.

Is Sparano a good OL coach? I don't know, but it's a question Parcells needs to "research" and answer.

 

[sago1]

Well Adams & Allen aren't any better then last year & Johnson hasn't improved. Riveria probably affected by back injury and unable to to get enough work in the off season conditioning program so he suffered major setback (maybe next year will be at full strength but he will be 34 next year) & Pettiti certainly has worked hard and given all he can but asking maybe too much to expect a 7th round pick to move from LT to RT and then start (and play every down in preseason thru 12 regular season games). Think he has hit rookie wall. This is Saproano's (OL coach?) first year coaching OL in Dallas. Don't know if he has had any previous NFL experience but I sure would like for Parcells to go after another OL coach with considerable experience who is highly regarded.

 

[Hoov]

Im thinking we need to spend a high draft pick on an OLineman and then a low round pick as well, maybe bring in a young guy off another teams practice squad too.

We need to have at least 1 OLineman who has the speed to pull and get outside.

Keep Al Johnson or Gurode but not both, im hoping we can upgrade at Center and let one of them stay on as a back-up. Center is a position i would consider spending FA dollars on, but what team is gonna let a good center go ? Maybe Eagles let Fraley go as the young guy seems to be playing well.

Let Tucker and Pettiti fight it out for RT, along with Columbo. Would like to see a tackle or center drafted on day 1, a guard drafted on day 2.

 

[Trip]

With all the talk of the offensive line's struggles, I thought I'd take a look at some of the better lines around the league. I think people want to throw money at the OL in the offseason, but is that really the best plan? I wanted to take a closer look at how teams assembled their OLs and who coaches them.

Let's take a closer look:









There are other good lines, but these were a few that I thought highly of. If anybody else wants to break down others, feel free. This is all I had time for.

So, what can we take from this? Tackle (especially LT) is a common place to use a high round draft pick on the OL. However, for the most part, the list is littered with later round draft picks and undrafted free agents.

What is the other common denominator? Long time offensive line coaches with extensive experience in the area of OL. Some with some terrific coaching mentors along the way.

The final denominator is that many of these guys were either homegrown or guys with several years of experience playing together.

My thoughts? I am not so sure throwing money at big money free agents or high draft picks is the answer. I think Dallas should pursue a legit offensive line coach. I think they need to establish a long term vision for the offensive line and start grooming young guys in that system. A patch work offensive line of free agents and new draft picks will probably be just that. A patch work offensive line.

Anyway, thought it was interesting. What do you think?

Great info. I agree good OL coaches, like the one we had in Hudson Houck, are very important.

Interior lineman aren't drafted very high, usually the top ones go in the 2nd-3rd round, so I agree with you, it makes more since to build the interior through the draft and KEEP THEM long enough to grow together. Unfortunately you need that pedigreed tackle, and if you aren't picking high enough (as a result of losing), then you probably need to get one in free agency.

I believe that good offensive skill players, especially at the QB position, make the offensive line more than the line makes the players, contrary to most people. And Indianapolis is my exhibit A.

 

[TunaFan33]

Not that our OL is anything great-but maybe THEY are losing confidence in Drew.

Same thing happened in NE when Tom Brady took over for Drew-a supposedly very bad OL all of a sudden looked awesome. Ditto Marc Bulger for Warner a couple of years ago.

Blame Jerry for this mess-if he hadn't overly insisted on his investments in QC and Hutch, this position would have been taken care of a LONG time ago.

 

[Hoov]

well they cant run block either, so i dont think they are losing faith in drew. besides he has shown he can play if they give him some time.

 

[AbeBeta]

1. Houck was an OK coach. He isn't some great coach who we miss. He's had good season and bad. He's nothing special. Some of yous swalllow too much of the mediocre DMN reporting. According to them every coach we lost is the greatest in the history of the league.

2. What I see from those lines are a bunch of guys who were cast offs, low picks, and generally guys who took a few years to get it together. Al Johnson, Rob Petitti, Stephan Peterman -- give them some time to develop.

 

[TunaFan33]

Just for the sake of argument-that 02 Tampa team played much of the season with a pathetic OL. Sure-they got alot better at the end, but couldn't help thinking that they were as bad as us that year. Their D was just as good as ours too, FWIW.

 

[Cbz40]

Great post as usual junk......very interesting.

1. agree get a legit OL Coach.

2. Have a meeting of the minds and study the O....adopt a plan. Decide do we want maulers or the more athletic types Olinemen.

3. Need to have young replacements for LA & Rivera......Center......RT & LT...a young Guard.

4. If you ask me get the athletic guys. Then run your screens and sweeps.

5. Whatever happened to the pulling Guards?....we haven't seen one of those since the Landry days.

 

[Smith22]

Our problem:

Johnson, Gurode, Peterman, Rogers, Lehr, Page, etc..........

You can't keep missing every time you draft an OL, especially when 3 of the most recent picks were 2nd rounders and 1 of them a 3rd rounder.

 

[junk]

2. Have a meeting of the minds and study the O....adopt a plan. Decide do we want maulers or the more athletic types Olinemen.

Great point. Seem to have a mix of both.

What does BP usually prefer?

I think Jets and I think Mawae/Fabini/Thomas and I think athletic types. Rogers/Johnson seem to be along the same lines. But then he drafted Peterman.

 

[Future]

Lehr is starting this year for Atlanta and Page was starting last year for cleveland maybe. They havent all been busts they just needed more time to develop.

 

[TunaFan33]

Our problem:

Johnson, Gurode, Peterman, Rogers, Lehr, Page, etc..........

You can't keep missing every time you draft an OL, especially when 3 of the most recent picks were 2nd rounders and 1 of them a 3rd rounder.

Most of our draft picks in the Parcells era have been VERY good. Chris Canty as a steal? Who would have thought.

However-how can our OL picks be so bad? Parcells is the best in picking OL-done it before. Maybe these young guys just aren't responding to Tuna's coaching philosophies? Couldn't help thinking the same thing in DC-the OL for Gibbs is THERE, but they're just not responding to him either.

 

[junk]

Our problem:

Johnson, Gurode, Peterman, Rogers, Lehr, Page, etc..........

You can't keep missing every time you draft an OL, especially when 3 of the most recent picks were 2nd rounders and 1 of them a 3rd rounder.

I am not ready to give up on Peterman yet.

Lehr has played OK in Atlanta.

But I agree. Need to hit on a few of those guys. Need to develop guys like Brian Waters.

 

[zagnut]

Great point. Seem to have a mix of both.

What does BP usually prefer?

I think Jets and I think Mawae/Fabini/Thomas and I think athletic types. Rogers/Johnson seem to be along the same lines. But then he drafted Peterman.

Funny. They make me think the opposite. I'm not sure Athletic and Fabini have ever been used together before. Mawae is a mauler who also happens to have great agility. It's why he's the best Center in the game in my eyes. Kind of a split. Thomas I've always seen as more of a more of a mauler too.

That said, BP does not like fat sloppy guys. While all those guys are big and agressive, they're not fat. They're also all smart, which is what BP prefers most of all.

 

[Kangaroo]

Great post as usual junk......very interesting.

1. agree get a legit OL Coach.

2. Have a meeting of the minds and study the O....adopt a plan. Decide do we want maulers or the more athletic types Olinemen.

3. Need to have young replacements for LA & Rivera......Center......RT & LT...a young Guard.

4. If you ask me get the athletic guys. Then run your screens and sweeps.

5. Whatever happened to the pulling Guards?....we haven't seen one of those since the Landry days.

I think we have a good young guard on the oline but they have him out place playing tackle where he will always be ok (Yes I think Tucker would be better utilized inside (He played Guard in college)

 

[zagnut]

With all the talk of the offensive line's struggles, I thought I'd take a look at some of the better lines around the league. I think people want to throw money at the OL in the offseason, but is that really the best plan? I wanted to take a closer look at how teams assembled their OLs and who coaches them.

Let's take a closer look:









There are other good lines, but these were a few that I thought highly of. If anybody else wants to break down others, feel free. This is all I had time for.

So, what can we take from this? Tackle (especially LT) is a common place to use a high round draft pick on the OL. However, for the most part, the list is littered with later round draft picks and undrafted free agents.

What is the other common denominator? Long time offensive line coaches with extensive experience in the area of OL. Some with some terrific coaching mentors along the way.

The final denominator is that many of these guys were either homegrown or guys with several years of experience playing together.

My thoughts? I am not so sure throwing money at big money free agents or high draft picks is the answer. I think Dallas should pursue a legit offensive line coach. I think they need to establish a long term vision for the offensive line and start grooming young guys in that system. A patch work offensive line of free agents and new draft picks will probably be just that. A patch work offensive line.

Anyway, thought it was interesting. What do you think?

It is interesting. Really, when you look back at other great OL from the past, they're filled with lower round guys. The Hogs of old were mostly late round and undrafted guys -- and this was when the draft was 12 rounds. The Dallas line during our last dynasty was undrafted LT, undrafted LG, 3rd Rd Center, 8th Rd (?) RG, and 3rd Rd RT.

And I agree consistency is extremely important. It's almost all mental. This unit has be able to know what the guys next to him are thinking. What the QB and RB is seeing. What the DL is trying to do. Like GI Joe says, knowing is half the battle.

Regarding our own Tony Sparano, our OL was a stregnth early in the year up until Flo went down. The demise of the Bledsoe's game and Terry Glenn's game coincides exactly with Flo going down for the season. Seems really clear to me what the problem is.

I don't really see it as throwing money at the position because I don't see the current group lasting too much longer and the position can't be fixed (imo) by just letting the remaining group grow and mature. I think Rob and even Torrin can eventually be legit players, but it's going to take 2 or 3 years.

Adding an anchor like Eric Winston at LT would help get things restarted.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Seems like overall you draft a LT in the first round, everything else needs to rely on great scouting and coaching.

Surprised you dont have the Patriots line on here.

 

[Rack]

5. Whatever happened to the pulling Guards?....we haven't seen one of those since the Landry days.

I've seen Larry Allen pull tons of times over the years. Including THIS year.