A look at offensive lines around the league...

[TunaFan33]

Seems like overall you draft a LT in the first round, everything else needs to rely on great scouting and coaching.

Surprised you dont have the Patriots line on here.

Frankly-teams need to draft OLs somewhere every year. In this day and age of FA/salary cap, this would probably be their best back-up plans. Yes-the Pats have done a nice job with this every year.

The Rams' biggest downfall since their last Super Bowl trip was just that-Mike Martz ignoring OLs in the draft completely. Instead-he would go after WR-wanna bees like Eric Crouch.

 

[morasp]

It's interesting that we passed over Locklear who starts at right tackle for the Seahawks (played guard in college) to take Peterman. I don't think Rivera has been a 100% all season and he get's all the credit in the world for hanging in there the way he has. Pettiti isn't great but he is improving and I think he will be improved next year. Adams will come back next year and we will have an experienced back up with tucker who can play both sides.

 

[junk]

Seems like overall you draft a LT in the first round, everything else needs to rely on great scouting and coaching.

Surprised you dont have the Patriots line on here.

There were other teams I considered, but I ran out of time. I think these teams are all superior to the Pats.

Besides, I despise the five layers of security commercial. Its played more than anything else on TV (and the Internet) and its just plain dumb. They get left out for that alone.

 

[junk]

Regarding our own Tony Sparano, our OL was a stregnth early in the year up until Flo went down. The demise of the Bledsoe's game and Terry Glenn's game coincides exactly with Flo going down for the season. Seems really clear to me what the problem is.

I don't really see it as throwing money at the position because I don't see the current group lasting too much longer and the position can't be fixed (imo) by just letting the remaining group grow and mature. I think Rob and even Torrin can eventually be legit players, but it's going to take 2 or 3 years.

I wouldn't call it a strength. No 100 yard rushers yet. But I do agree, the loss of Flo was huge. Yet people thought Tucker might be an upgrade.....

I'd take a look at Steve Hutchinson or LeCharles Bentley.

My guess is that LA is cut or has to restructure if he wants to hang around. You could get three mid level guards for LA's salary.

 

[SmashFactorGolf]

..................New England Pats-------------do they have higher than a 4th round choice on their starting OL?

 

[pittdawg]

..................New England Pats-------------do they have higher than a 4th round choice on their starting OL?

logan mankins 1st rd

 

[wileedog]

My guess is that LA is cut or has to restructure if he wants to hang around. You could get three mid level guards for LA's salary.

I'm really wondering if its simply time to cut bait with Larry and Flo.

Both of have been monumental teases the last couple of seasons - drive block a guy into next Tuesday on one play and then totally whiff on the next play.

Larry has been more consistent this year (although its tough to tell with the Keystone Cop routine going on around him), but I think its speaks volumes that Flo gets hurt and replaced by an undrafted FA who almost got cut in camp and somewhere in the back of everyone's mind was the thought "well, its not THAT much of a downgrade.....".

I was getting tired of both their acts before this season, and for the money they bring down we can bring in a bunch of guys who could be better and more consistent.

Also, anyone else intrigued by what Columbo could bring with a full offeason training with Bill? He really fits Bill's prototype to a T - strong, tough and very smart.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

logan mankins 1st rd

He is a rookie this year, that has played well overall, but at times inconsistent. Looks like the Cowboys got a bargain.

I was actually surprised by the Pats making this pick.

 

[ZenItRam]

All in all, it looks like this is a problem the Cowboys cannot fix this season. It's something that's going to take coaching and time. Even if we spent some high draft picks for OL positions, it would still take years to fully reap the benefits.

The coaching staff must find the flaws in the blocking techniques that are currently being employed by our current offensive line and fix them. Also, the O-line needs some quality time in the film room to understand what's going on with the opponents D-line down to the the very last detail.

This is an internal effort this season...

 

[emmitputee]

Maybe you guys should start mcnabb's momma on oline. I hear a she's availiable?

Tell you what. Well trade you Will Shields for Larry Allen, and Roy Williams straight up.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

I'm really wondering if its simply time to cut bait with Larry and Flo.

Both of have been monumental teases the last couple of seasons - drive block a guy into next Tuesday on one play and then totally whiff on the next play.

Larry has been more consistent this year (although its tough to tell with the Keystone Cop routine going on around him), but I think its speaks volumes that Flo gets hurt and replaced by an undrafted FA who almost got cut in camp and somewhere in the back of everyone's mind was the thought "well, its not THAT much of a downgrade.....".

I was getting tired of both their acts before this season, and for the money they bring down we can bring in a bunch of guys who could be better and more consistent.

Also, anyone else intrigued by what Columbo could bring with a full offeason training with Bill? He really fits Bill's prototype to a T - strong, tough and very smart.

I do not understand the logic here cut your 2 best lineman for the unknown when you have a QB like Bledsoe. Your money logic does not work either because were paying for both of them and were still under the cap. Everybody is quick to jump on Flozel but if you remember in the first giant game you did not here anything about there DE until Flo left the game in the second half after hurting his knee in the first quarter.

 

[wileedog]

I do not understand the logic here cut your 2 best lineman for the unknown when you have a QB like Bledsoe.

In a word, yes.

Our 2 "best lineman" have been inconsistent and penalty prone for a couple of years. To me they sum up exactly what our offensive line problems have been since the mid-90's.

Flo has cost us games this year with his mistakes before he went down (Raiders and Commanders). He had one dominant season in 2003 and he's been living on that rep ever since.

Larry has slowed to the point of being utterly immobile. If his assignment isn't right in front of him, he might as well not be on the field at all. He's been better this year at least in that he's at least been taking care of his man when he does get on him, but for the mega-bucks he's pulling down its simply not worth it. He has never been a particularly good athlete or very good with technique, and as he ages his brute strength is becoming less and less of a factor.

Neither guy is our should be in our long-term offensive line plans. So my logic is to use their cap money to bring in younger, more athletic lineman who can grow and gel together *this* offseason - the sooner the better.

I'm not remotely saying our pathetic play this year is all their fault. But I do think their inconsistent play should be replaced, or even if we add a bunch of guys this offseason we will still have a lot of the same problems that have plagued us since Troy was running around for his life back there.

 

[Eskimo]

The basic premise that our OL may be failing due to a lack of philosophy and coaching is one I agree with. We will not really know what kind of talent we have until the proper teacher is brought in.

I think most here are underestimating Flo - he would commit the odd penalty and occasionally get beat by a speed rusher but he mostly kept his man away from Bledsoe and gave him space to make his throws. Even when Tucker and especially Pettiti don't give up a sack they often allow the pocket to cave in on Bledsoe. This is further exacerbated by Johnson and Rivera getting pushed back upfield.

I do agree with the sentiment that it may be time to cut our ties with Allen as we could probably find a better player for a cheaper price over the next two years (including the cap hit).

I also agree with the sentiment that Rivera has been bad and was money poorly spent. I am not sure how much better he will be next year after a full offseason of recovery - I suspect it will not make much difference. I think he survives at least one more year but may be a cap casualty in 2007.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

In a word, yes.

Our 2 "best lineman" have been inconsistent and penalty prone for a couple of years. To me they sum up exactly what our offensive line problems have been since the mid-90's.

Flo has cost us games this year with his mistakes before he went down (Raiders and Commanders). He had one dominant season in 2003 and he's been living on that rep ever since.

Larry has slowed to the point of being utterly immobile. If his assignment isn't right in front of him, he might as well not be on the field at all. He's been better this year at least in that he's at least been taking care of his man when he does get on him, but for the mega-bucks he's pulling down its simply not worth it. He has never been a particularly good athlete or very good with technique, and as he ages his brute strength is becoming less and less of a factor.

Neither guy is our should be in our long-term offensive line plans. So my logic is to use their cap money to bring in younger, more athletic lineman who can grow and gel together *this* offseason - the sooner the better.

I'm not remotely saying our pathetic play this year is all their fault. But I do think their inconsistent play should be replaced, or even if we add a bunch of guys this offseason we will still have a lot of the same problems that have plagued us since Troy was running around for his life back there.

With that line right there you lost all credibility during the first five or so years of his carer Larry was an amazing athlete for a lineman I take that back amazing athlete period. I remember him running down a DB on an interception that was a highlight reel play. Why is he considered one the the best lineman of all time if he was never athletic. On Flo he handled the DE for the giants who dominated Walter Jones who is considered the best LT in the game, I guarantee you if Flo was to hit the open market today teams would be in line to sign him. One you must remember younger does not always mean better look at the cardinals they picked O-Line first round for several years and still cannot find a running game.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

The basic premise that our OL may be failing due to a lack of philosophy and coaching is one I agree with. We will not really know what kind of talent we have until the proper teacher is brought in.

I think most here are underestimating Flo - he would commit the odd penalty and occasionally get beat by a speed rusher but he mostly kept his man away from Bledsoe and gave him space to make his throws. Even when Tucker and especially Pettiti don't give up a sack they often allow the pocket to cave in on Bledsoe. This is further exacerbated by Johnson and Rivera getting pushed back upfield.

I do agree with the sentiment that it may be time to cut our ties with Allen as we could probably find a better player for a cheaper price over the next two years (including the cap hit).

I also agree with the sentiment that Rivera has been bad and was money poorly spent. I am not sure how much better he will be next year after a full offseason of recovery - I suspect it will not make much difference. I think he survives at least one more year but may be a cap casualty in 2007.

Another way to look at it is we have not had the same O-Line coach for 3 consecutive years since ? it seems like we have changed coaches every year for the last 5 years I'm sure this has some bearing on the inconsistent line play. I am on the fence with Rivera he has looked bad this year but it seems to be strength related and that has to be a back issue.

 

[wileedog]

With that line right there you lost all credibility during the first five or so years of his carer Larry was an amazing athlete for a lineman I take that back amazing athlete period. I remember him running down a DB on an interception that was a highlight reel play. Why is he considered one the the best lineman of all time if he was never athletic.

Fine, not never, but what he was 6 or 7 years ago is hardly all that relevant today, is it?

On Flo he handled the DE for the giants who dominated Walter Jones who is considered the best LT in the game, I guarantee you if Flo was to hit the open market today teams would be in line to sign him.

Not at anywhere NEAR what we are paying him.

Which is the point.

And Umenyiora was a non-factor in our first Giant game even after Flo went out - Tucker handled him for a quarter and a half too. He wasn't the same player he is now.

One you must remember younger does not always mean better look at the cardinals they picked O-Line first round for several years and still cannot find a running game.

Age has nothing to do with it or my argument. Heck Flo is actually in his 'prime'.

My argument is about value, and about veteran leadership. Flo and Larry are both grossly overpaid relative to their production. Both have consistency issues. Both have penalty issues (although Larry has been much better this year). Both get a free ride.

I'm not saying lets just get younger guys for the sake of getting younger guys. I'm saying the best offensive lines take a year or two to gel together, and as long as the line is this bad anyway, maybe the smartest move this offseason is bring in a new OL coach with a new philosophy, bring in some younger talent, and let them all grow into the system together. That's how you get a dominating unit like the early 90's crew.

The Accounting Department says Allen and Flo aren't long for this team. I'd rather make the cut sooner than later and move on to the next generation, that's all.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Don't backpedal from your Larry was never a good athlete comment that shows your bias against him. If you replace Flo with a better player your gonna have to pay him the same if not more be it a first round which is a roll of the dice or free agent. Neither contract is prohibitive to the health of are salary cap, neither escalates toward the end of the contracts. I just do not understand how people can make things so personal about players and lose all logical thinking.

 

[wileedog]

Don't backpedal from your Larry was never a good athlete comment that shows your bias against him.

You're right. I'm biased against players soaking up millions off the cap playing mediocre football. Congratulations you have cleverly ferreted out my agenda.

If you replace Flo with a better player your gonna have to pay him the same if not more be it a first round which is a roll of the dice or free agent. Neither contract is prohibitive to the health of are salary cap, neither escalates toward the end of the contracts. I just do not understand how people can make things so personal about players and lose all logical thinking.

Neither player is playing very well. THAT's the point. Certainly no where near what we are paying them.

This isn't personnal or illogical. Flozell and LA take up almost $9M in cap space this year just between those two players. Even when Flo was in earlier in the year, did you think the left side of the offensive line was worth 10% of our total cap money? Especially when those two guys inconsistent play contributed directly to losses this season?

Enough is enough. Flozell has sleepwalked through games his entire career except for one season. Larry's not getting it done anymore. I'm thinking it may be time to move on and see if there are more productive ways to spend that much money. More importantly, we should stop trying to stick expensive patches like Rivera on the sinking ship that is our offensive line and build a newer, better boat.

 

[onetrickpony]

I think another indicator of a problem in this area (line coaching) in that Witten is also not doing a good job in blocking. Sporano coached Witten to a great receiving year last season, but his blocking hasn't been up to par. He never was known as a great blocker but has seemed to regress this year.

 

[4chefs]

...
I believe that good offensive skill players, especially at the QB position, make the offensive line more than the line makes the players, contrary to most people. And Indianapolis is my exhibit A.

And Kansas City is my counter exhibit B.

We've had a top5 offense for the past 3 years, and are working out way back up the rankings this year. Why are we not top5 as usual? Because our O-Line, specifically our stud Pro-Bowl LT Willie Roaf has missed 5 games with a bad hammy, and a revolving door at RT until just recently.

This KC offense functions as a direct result of a superior O-Line, and definitely NOT the other way around.