**A MUST READ**I'm disappointed in some people here.

[DizzG]

I haven't been around this board long, but I must say I've liked it. There are some great people on here. For the most part, the banter has been good.

Yeah, I'm a Skins fan, yeah, this isn't my house, but ever since this TO stuff broke, I can't help but notice what has come over some people on this board.

Don't confuse this with another TO thread because in my mind, this subject transcends him. This isn't a Skins fan talking to Cowboys fans...this is a football fan talking to other football fans.

I think most football fans can relate to each other in the sense that, most likely, you watched your favorite team when you were little all the way up until now, never wavering through the good times and the bad. I tip my hat to you Cowboys fans who stuck through the hard times when you were 1-15 (and yes, I KNOW who that one win came against...). As a Skins fan, up until this past year, the previous decade or so has been really lean, but I digress.

You probably grew up rushing home from church, sitting on the couch with your dad while he taught you about the game. You probably had a favorite player, collected all his football cards, tried to get his autograph whenever you could, always looked at his name in the box score, had all his stats memorized and cheered him on through the hard times as well. Even though you've grown up and that player is well on in age, you still see old pictures of him and get chills. He's still your hero, and deep down you're a little kid. Because after all this is a game, right? And games are for kids.

You probably sit on this site when you should be doing things that are more meaningful or more productive (like your job) and debate things ad nauseum. You've got jerseys, hats, sweatpants, sweatshirts, pictures, mugs, pint glasses, EVERYTHING with your teams logo on it, you have it. Your family members and loved ones try to understand and some of them don't get it and never will. But thats their problem, not yours.

In the offseason you devour every little tidbit of info you can get your hands on because if you're like me, you like other sports but nothing quenches your thirst like the NFL does. You analyze to death the FA moves you make, the draft picks you get, the coaches that come aboard...you go to the training camps, watch preseason games like you're a crackhead fiending for a hit all awaiting for the crescendo that is the kickoff on that first Sunday in September.

And some of you are going to throw all of that away because your team just signed a player you hate?

Listen, I'm not trying to tell people here what to do. Odds are that my rant here will just be glossed over and won't be taken seriously. People are going to do whatever they want regardless of what some ******* Commander fan is posting on a Cowboy message board.

All I'm saying is, to those who are seriously intending to ditch their allegiance to the Cowboys, think about all that you've invested in over the span of your life as a fan of the Cowboys. And you're really going to let Terrell Owens ruin the Cowboy Fan Experience for you?

Because, in the end, Terrell Owens will make his millions, come and go, but you'll still be a fan. And when you're a fan, you're bigger than Terrell Owens.

great stuff...I just dont get the people that claim their giving up on the team

 

[Way 'nuff]

So we should sacrifice or principles and morals just cause we are a fan of the game. Sometimes 1 person can be enough of an problem morally for another person so thats its impossible to root for the whole team now.

How do I tell my son the person I have been using as an example for whats wrong in America is now my favorite receiver for my favorite team.

I have seen HYPOCRITE thrown around here. In my mindI would be one if I did not do this. I really find terrell morally vacant and repugnant and he offends all sensibilities I have as a person.

Tell me how I justify rooting for him, to myself, let alone my son and my GOD.

Did you not root for Michael Irvin? No, thats not me being a Commanders fan trying make fun of him, it's a legit question. Because if you didn't, you still rooted for the Cowboys back in the 90's. Or did your morals get in the way of three superbowls, too?

I rooted for Dexter Manley when I was a kid, despite his faults. I got to play basketball with him once, great guy. His story is tragic, he missed out on what probably was going to be a hall of fame career. IMO, people spend too much time criticizing athletes who don't act up to our standards. Has it ever occured to anyone that you can point to people like Dexter Manley, Len Bias, etc as what NOT to do? I don't think there are many parents who are saying, "Hey, that Terrell Owens, what a class act, you should go out and be just like him."

You're a parent and if you're worried about the impact of Terrell Owens over what you teach your son, then I don't know what to tell you.

Hey man, I'm not trying to tell you to raise your kid. But sooner or later kids learn that not everyone in every walk of life is a goody goody. People have faults. No one gets it right 100% of the time.

And Your GOD? Does YOUR GOD not forgive? Last time I checked, mine does.

 

[Ashwynn]

Did you not root for Michael Irvin? No, thats not me being a Commanders fan trying make fun of him, it's a legit question. Because if you didn't, you still rooted for the Cowboys back in the 90's. Or did your morals get in the way of three superbowls, too?

I rooted for Dexter Manley when I was a kid, despite his faults. I got to play basketball with him once, great guy. His story is tragic, he missed out on what probably was going to be a hall of fame career. IMO, people spend too much time criticizing athletes who don't act up to our standards. Has it ever occured to anyone that you can point to people like Dexter Manley, Len Bias, etc as what NOT to do? I don't think there are many parents who are saying, "Hey, that Terrell Owens, what a class act, you should go out and be just like him."

You're a parent and if you're worried about the impact of Terrell Owens over what you teach your son, then I don't know what to tell you.

Hey man, I'm not trying to tell you to raise your kid. But sooner or later kids learn that not everyone in every walk of life is a goody goody. People have faults. No one gets it right 100% of the time.

And Your GOD? Does YOUR GOD not forgive? Last time I checked, mine does.

No, I rooted for them, I also never railed on them and used them as examples.

When has terrell ever gotten it right? I taught my son several lessons today that will serve him well later in life. wether he roots for terrell I dont know or care, hes welcome too. But he will also never be anything like terrell. No matter what my son ens up doing in life, I kow when I send him out inthe world, I have sent a well educated, well heeled man in to the world who will contribute to the world, not take away from it.

My son saw me forgive Irvin, Haley, Sanders if he thought I ever hated them, so he knows to forgive is devine, unless their such an ******* they make it impossible to forgive them. As terrell has done. Till he humbles himslef infront of the world, hes not learnt anything, or changed anything and I wont forgive him for anything hes done till he does.

 

[dcfanatic]

Did you not root for Michael Irvin? No, thats not me being a Commanders fan trying make fun of him, it's a legit question. Because if you didn't, you still rooted for the Cowboys back in the 90's. Or did your morals get in the way of three superbowls, too?

I rooted for Dexter Manley when I was a kid, despite his faults. I got to play basketball with him once, great guy. His story is tragic, he missed out on what probably was going to be a hall of fame career. IMO, people spend too much time criticizing athletes who don't act up to our standards. Has it ever occured to anyone that you can point to people like Dexter Manley, Len Bias, etc as what NOT to do? I don't think there are many parents who are saying, "Hey, that Terrell Owens, what a class act, you should go out and be just like him."

You're a parent and if you're worried about the impact of Terrell Owens over what you teach your son, then I don't know what to tell you.

Hey man, I'm not trying to tell you to raise your kid. But sooner or later kids learn that not everyone in every walk of life is a goody goody. People have faults. No one gets it right 100% of the time.

And Your GOD? Does YOUR GOD not forgive? Last time I checked, mine does.

Your missing her point. The Cowboys had a choice of bringing this cancer to the team. Those players you mentioned were there already and embedded as our heroes. We all know what this man stands for and the Dallas Cowboys are validating him for his ways by signing him and letting him wear their jersey.

So in return that translates to kids. Do what TO does and one day the Dallas Cowboys will sign you up for millions of dollars to play football.

Right?

 

[Way 'nuff]

No, I rooted for them, I also never railed on them and used them as examples.

When has terrell ever gotten it right? I taught my son several lessons today that will serve him well later in life. wether he roots for terrell I dont know or care, hes welcome too. But he will also never be anything like terrell. No matter what my son ens up doing in life, I kow when I send him out inthe world, I have sent a well educated, well heeled man in to the world who will contribute to the world, not take away from it.

My son saw me forgive Irvin, Haley, Sanders if he thought I ever hated them, so he knows to forgive is devine, unless their such an ******* they make it impossible to forgive them. As terrell has done. Till he humbles himslef infront of the world, hes not learnt anything, or changed anything and I wont forgive him for anything hes done till he does.

(I can't believe I'm actually sticking up for Terrell Owens here...)

The dude plays hard. I'm sorry, but TO brings it every game, that can't be denied.

He played hurt on the biggest stage, the Super Bowl. Now some people call it selfish, others think he made a sacrifice for the team. Call it what you will, but the dude played through some pain and pretty much put his career on the line. Like I said, I don't know the motivations behind it, but still, it was impressive to see.

So let me get this straight...you can forgive Sanders, Irvin, Haley and some others...but not TO? Whats the criteria you're using here, the fact that TO is a bigger *******?

But back to my point, the reason I wrote this thread...you're a fan. You've got too much invested. What message would you be sending to your son if you gave up on the Cowboys because they did something you don't agree with? Would you walk out on a friend who has an alcohol problem? That example may be a bit extreme, but like I said, no one is 100% perfect. Not you, not your son, not TO, not BP, JJ, Irvin, Sanders, Haley or the Cowboys.

I just hate seeing people give up allegiances to their teams because they let someone ruin it for them. Thats all.

 

[Way 'nuff]

Your missing her point. The Cowboys had a choice of bringing this cancer to the team. Those players you mentioned were there already and embedded as our heroes. We all know what this man stands for and the Dallas Cowboys are validating him for his ways by signing him and letting him wear their jersey.

So in return that translates to kids. Do what TO does and one day the Dallas Cowboys will sign you up for millions of dollars to play football.

Right?

TO was going to make millions with or without the Cowboys. That message was already there for everyone to see.

Last time I checked the Cowboys brough Sanders and Haley over from the 49ers. Irvins the only one who was homegrown, who was "embedded" as a hero.

So I still don't get it, I mean TO is a bigger jerk than Deion and Keyshawn, right? Yet people found ways to look over their flaws and accept them as Cowboys. However TO hasn't been a Cowboy for more than 24 hours and people are acting like it's judgement day around here.

So the bigger the *******, the less willing you are to forgive? And more importantly, give a chance?

 

[TunaFan33]

I haven't been around this board long, but I must say I've liked it. There are some great people on here. For the most part, the banter has been good.

Yeah, I'm a Skins fan, yeah, this isn't my house, but ever since this TO stuff broke, I can't help but notice what has come over some people on this board.

Don't confuse this with another TO thread because in my mind, this subject transcends him. This isn't a Skins fan talking to Cowboys fans...this is a football fan talking to other football fans.

I think most football fans can relate to each other in the sense that, most likely, you watched your favorite team when you were little all the way up until now, never wavering through the good times and the bad. I tip my hat to you Cowboys fans who stuck through the hard times when you were 1-15 (and yes, I KNOW who that one win came against...). As a Skins fan, up until this past year, the previous decade or so has been really lean, but I digress.

You probably grew up rushing home from church, sitting on the couch with your dad while he taught you about the game. You probably had a favorite player, collected all his football cards, tried to get his autograph whenever you could, always looked at his name in the box score, had all his stats memorized and cheered him on through the hard times as well. Even though you've grown up and that player is well on in age, you still see old pictures of him and get chills. He's still your hero, and deep down you're a little kid. Because after all this is a game, right? And games are for kids.

You probably sit on this site when you should be doing things that are more meaningful or more productive (like your job) and debate things ad nauseum. You've got jerseys, hats, sweatpants, sweatshirts, pictures, mugs, pint glasses, EVERYTHING with your teams logo on it, you have it. Your family members and loved ones try to understand and some of them don't get it and never will. But thats their problem, not yours.

In the offseason you devour every little tidbit of info you can get your hands on because if you're like me, you like other sports but nothing quenches your thirst like the NFL does. You analyze to death the FA moves you make, the draft picks you get, the coaches that come aboard...you go to the training camps, watch preseason games like you're a crackhead fiending for a hit all awaiting for the crescendo that is the kickoff on that first Sunday in September.

And some of you are going to throw all of that away because your team just signed a player you hate?

Listen, I'm not trying to tell people here what to do. Odds are that my rant here will just be glossed over and won't be taken seriously. People are going to do whatever they want regardless of what some ******* Commander fan is posting on a Cowboy message board.

All I'm saying is, to those who are seriously intending to ditch their allegiance to the Cowboys, think about all that you've invested in over the span of your life as a fan of the Cowboys. And you're really going to let Terrell Owens ruin the Cowboy Fan Experience for you?

Because, in the end, Terrell Owens will make his millions, come and go, but you'll still be a fan. And when you're a fan, you're bigger than Terrell Owens.

For the record-as much as I hated Deion, he was also a player you LOVED to have on your team.

TO is NOT that kind of morale booster.

The big reason why your Skins have improved is b/c Gibbs did just that-put emphasis on what's UP FRONT.

Us by-passing Bentley to get cancer Ownes is a HUGE mistake on our part.

 

[Hostile]

For the record-as much as I hated Deion, he was also a player you LOVED to have on your team.

TO is NOT that kind of morale booster.

The big reason why your Skins have improved is b/c Gibbs did just that-put emphasis on what's UP FRONT.

Us by-passing Bentley to get cancer Ownes is a HUGE mistake on our part.

You missed his point completely. It flew right over.

 

[DBoys]

Awesome post you saved me the trouble.

The irony is the very thing you guys claim in TO you bring about in your "I am no longer a Cowboy fan". You lynch TO yet you bring about the same division he has in the past. While I respect your decision I do not respect your attempt to divide fans to justify your feelings. If you truly are compelled to leave there would be no need to post about it you would just walk away. To post only shows your uncertainty.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Don't judge Owens for what happened while he was with the 9'ers or the Iggles.

Get rid of all of your preconceived notions.

Who cares what he did with / to those teams ?

I mean who cares about any team other than Dallas anyway, especially those two.

That doesn't guarantee anything about what will happen in Dallas.

Wait and see what he does in Dallas.

Wait and see how he responds to Parcells.

Wait and see how he performs for the Cowboys.

Then if you don't like him, ... then don't like him.

You can even stop being a Cowboys fan if you want, if you aren't any smarter than that.

But wait and see how it unfolds first.

 

[TunaFan33]

Don't judge Owens for what happened while he was with the 9'ers or the Iggles.

Get rid of all of your preconceived notions.

Who cares what he did with / to those teams ?

I mean who cares about any team other than Dallas anyway, especially those two.

That doesn't guarantee anything about what will happen in Dallas.

Wait and see what he does in Dallas.

Wait and see how he responds to Parcells.

Wait and see how he performs for the Cowboys.

Then if you don't like him, ... then don't like him.

You can even stop being a Cowboys fan if you want, if you aren't any smarter than that.

But wait and see how it unfolds first.

Funny how Iggles fans were saying how Donovan and Andy were going to smack around TO if this punk had second thoughts of opening his mouth-and they also said how Mooch was a poor disciplinarian and Garcia was "too nice"(which supposedly was their undoings).

Dude-you gotta see the Big Picture.

 

[TunaFan33]

Awesome post you saved me the trouble.

The irony is the very thing you guys claim in TO you bring about in your "I am no longer a Cowboy fan". You lynch TO yet you bring about the same division he has in the past. While I respect your decision I do not respect your attempt to divide fans to justify your feelings. If you truly are compelled to leave there would be no need to post about it you would just walk away. To post only shows your uncertainty.

He blew apart 2 teams already. What makes you think he's reformed now?

 

[conner01]

way too impressive for a skins fan.lol
great post

 

[TunaFan33]

TO was going to make millions with or without the Cowboys. That message was already there for everyone to see.

Last time I checked the Cowboys brough Sanders and Haley over from the 49ers. Irvins the only one who was homegrown, who was "embedded" as a hero.

So I still don't get it, I mean TO is a bigger jerk than Deion and Keyshawn, right? Yet people found ways to look over their flaws and accept them as Cowboys. However TO hasn't been a Cowboy for more than 24 hours and people are acting like it's judgement day around here.

So the bigger the *******, the less willing you are to forgive? And more importantly, give a chance?

Sanders had an overblown ego, but he wasn't a lockerroom cancer.

Haley threw a tirade in SF 'cuz the Niners' front office Released Ronnie Lott-NOT anything over selfish reasons.

Keyshawn is a watered down TO-don't we all remember he DID BEHAVE himself under Tony "My Offensive System is a JOKE" Dungy?

 

[SoTex]

Great post. Although not forgotten, TO's past history is somewhat "wiped clean" with me once he puts the Star on. I'm all for not giving up on somebody that has made mistakes playing a sport. Owens is now a Cowboy, so I'm willing to give him a chance. No player, opposing fan, game, coach, etc. will ever come between me and my loyalty and passion for the Dallas Cowboys.

I would rather not have a player with TO's track record play for the Cowboys. I have no say in the matter, though. I do, however, control my loyalties. That always has and always will go to the guys with the Star on their helmet.

 

[Q_the_man]

Was u a fan after JJ fired the Greatest coach in the world in Landry!!!!!

How about when we signed the knucklehead Charles Haley who was a horrible locker room person that nobody liked in Frisco!!!!

When we cut Emmitt!!!

Signed Dieon!!!!

If ur answer is Yes to all these, then their should be no problem with us signing TO.......U should still be a fan, if not oh well we still have millions of fans who wants TO here and will die a Cowboys fan, Like me!!!!!

 

[hmcorp]

I will be a fan as long as the star sits on that helmet. And they stay in dallas. I have to admit they cant leave dallas. but that will never happen.

 

[Shotgun Dave]

I haven't been around this board long, but I must say I've liked it. There are some great people on here. For the most part, the banter has been good.

Yeah, I'm a Skins fan, yeah, this isn't my house, but ever since this TO stuff broke, I can't help but notice what has come over some people on this board.

Don't confuse this with another TO thread because in my mind, this subject transcends him. This isn't a Skins fan talking to Cowboys fans...this is a football fan talking to other football fans.

I think most football fans can relate to each other in the sense that, most likely, you watched your favorite team when you were little all the way up until now, never wavering through the good times and the bad. I tip my hat to you Cowboys fans who stuck through the hard times when you were 1-15 (and yes, I KNOW who that one win came against...). As a Skins fan, up until this past year, the previous decade or so has been really lean, but I digress.

You probably grew up rushing home from church, sitting on the couch with your dad while he taught you about the game. You probably had a favorite player, collected all his football cards, tried to get his autograph whenever you could, always looked at his name in the box score, had all his stats memorized and cheered him on through the hard times as well. Even though you've grown up and that player is well on in age, you still see old pictures of him and get chills. He's still your hero, and deep down you're a little kid. Because after all this is a game, right? And games are for kids.

You probably sit on this site when you should be doing things that are more meaningful or more productive (like your job) and debate things ad nauseum. You've got jerseys, hats, sweatpants, sweatshirts, pictures, mugs, pint glasses, EVERYTHING with your teams logo on it, you have it. Your family members and loved ones try to understand and some of them don't get it and never will. But thats their problem, not yours.

In the offseason you devour every little tidbit of info you can get your hands on because if you're like me, you like other sports but nothing quenches your thirst like the NFL does. You analyze to death the FA moves you make, the draft picks you get, the coaches that come aboard...you go to the training camps, watch preseason games like you're a crackhead fiending for a hit all awaiting for the crescendo that is the kickoff on that first Sunday in September.

And some of you are going to throw all of that away because your team just signed a player you hate?

Listen, I'm not trying to tell people here what to do. Odds are that my rant here will just be glossed over and won't be taken seriously. People are going to do whatever they want regardless of what some ******* Commander fan is posting on a Cowboy message board.

All I'm saying is, to those who are seriously intending to ditch their allegiance to the Cowboys, think about all that you've invested in over the span of your life as a fan of the Cowboys. And you're really going to let Terrell Owens ruin the Cowboy Fan Experience for you?

Because, in the end, Terrell Owens will make his millions, come and go, but you'll still be a fan. And when you're a fan, you're bigger than Terrell Owens.

As one who is most likely one of the subjects of this message, I admire your post. You make some valid points. And you're dead-on about the whole loyalty thing and how long it's been. Like I've said, I'm just incredibly disappointed, that's all. I would rather have just about anyone in the league wear the star EXCEPT for Owens, but Jerrah never asked me.

Someone else said it better than I earlier; "I will be a much happier Cowboys fan once Owens is no longer on the team" - just like I was happy once we got rid of Meion. I got past that. Maybe I can get past Owens.

Good post. I needed that.

 

[DallasEast]

That was a very good post. And what I appreciate most (which I find VERY strange in conveying to a Commanders fan) is the fact that you were able to state your point without ever mentioning or making misleading comparisons of...

Michael Irvin.

Well done.

In all my years of following sports, I have always been fascinated by how others twist the definition of the word 'fan'. One simply can reach for a dictionary or surf to a dictionary website (such as Merriam-Webster.com) and find that the definition of fan is:

Main Entry: fan
Function: noun
Etymology: probably short for fanatic
1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator
2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) <science-fiction fans>

That's it. If, at any given time, someone cannot say that they are 'an enthusiastic devotee' or 'an ardent admirer' of a sports team or individual sports player (i.e. golf/Tiger Woods, etc.) then they are not a fan of so-and-so.

It doesn't mean that they were not the HUGEST fan previously. It doesn't mean that they will not return to being the HUGEST fan again in the future.

It just means that they are not a fan of so-and-so at the time their enthusiasm or admiration has been diminished in their minds.

There is no grey area within the true definition of the word. Personally, I have no ill will towards anyone dropping their allegience for the team because of Owens. I fully understand their point-of-view and generally agree with their stance. "Me?" I wish he would rot in hell. And no, I'm the ultra-literal type and that was not a figure of speech.

Where I have difficulty is with those who say they are a fan of the team, but they will not follow the team while _____________ (fill in the blank) is on it. It has always been my view that a fan cannot admire or be enthusiastic about their team or individual sports player from a distance. A fan has to be right there... on the front lines... battling the Sith (err Commanders)... without reservation.

Just my lifelong opinion. Case in point: I was a Philadelphia 76ers fan. Dr. J's team. I adopted the team during the 76-77 season. There was no other NBA team for me. My fanship lasted through the Celtic and Laker defeats. Through the magical 65-17 season. Through the almost dreamlike 12-1 postseason title run. MILWAUKEE CHEATED IN GAME FOUR! THE REFS DIDN'T WANT TO SEE A SWEEP!!! THEY CHEAT...

Sorry. :

Then, IT happen. Sixers owner Harold Katz went completely insane. Signs of his insanity had surfaced five or six years before when he traded away Moses Malone and Brad Daugherty (sp?). But then IT happen.

He traded away Charles Barkley in '92. Chuck. The man who should have inherited Erving's mantle, but Katz never made it possible for him to do so. Gone. Shipped to Phoenix for three guys I don't even remember.

That was it. That was the last straw. That day I ceased being a 76er fan and became a Charles Barkley fan. Where he went, I followed. And when he retired, I stopped watching the NBA on a game-to-game basis.

IMO, to be a fan, you have to give 100% support. Anything less is a sham. And a hollow one at that.

Unfettered enthusiam.

Unwavering devotion.

That's what being a fan is all about.

 

[Hostile]

As one who is most likely one of the subjects of this message, I admire your post. You make some valid points. And you're dead-on about the whole loyalty thing and how long it's been. Like I've said, I'm just incredibly disappointed, that's all. I would rather have just about anyone in the league wear the star EXCEPT for Owens, but Jerrah never asked me.

Someone else said it better than I earlier; "I will be a much happier Cowboys fan once Owens is no longer on the team" - just like I was happy once we got rid of Meion. I got past that. Maybe I can get past Owens.

Good post. I needed that.

I am glad to see this reaction by you. Keep reading this thread. Other good stuff said.