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A question about the players over system philosophy

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Risen Star, May 3, 2020.

  1. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Hey, bros... riddle me this. If McCarthy is all about players over system, taking talent and scheming around it, and that rang a bell with thee Will McClay here's my question.

    Why do all our new CB additions look the same? Same length, same traits. Why did McClay talk about Reggie Robinson being his pet cat because "he fits". There shouldn't be scheme fits with a team valuing talent over system. We should be schemeless when acquiring players.

    It's almost like we're being lied to. Or they don't know what they're talking about.

    What's your theory? (Cowboys!)
  2. Dre11

    Dre11 Well-Known Member

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    because at the end of the day its all about the system. it coach speak. All coaches have a system.
  3. DakPresgoat

    DakPresgoat Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think “talent over scheme” is the overall philosophy. And I think they do mean it.

    I think that lays the foundation that, they are just going to take the best players available and adjust things to fit them.

    That being said, there are biases that will be in people’s minds when they determine “who is the best player available”

    So like the drafting of Diggs, Robinson and the signing of Worley.

    When the front office and scouts were saying “these are the best players available for our secondary” they may be making that determination with some natural bias in believing that size and length makes a corner a better cornerback than some smaller ones.

    So, I do think they are being honest when they say “talent over scheme”. Player over scheme”. But scouts and coaches are going to have their own built in biases about what characteristics make a player better than others. And you will see the result of that with some of the players they target.

    there is no universal bible of “who are the best players”. Who are the best players is subjective. Especially once you get into the later rounds of the draft in particular.
    Shake_Tiller, Proof and Mr_C like this.
  4. noletime95

    noletime95 Well-Known Member

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    Of course we’re being lied to, or not told the whole story. I’m good with that.

    It’s a mix. Find talent that fits. Don’t reach for needs, but the staff has a philosophy. They believe loading up on DBs will help STs. Limit offensive players on STs. Bigger DBs that play press. I’m guessing we will gamble more. Give up more big plays. Hopefully create more turnovers. There has been an effort to upgrade the DL but it does feel like we are a pass rusher short.

    Overall I’m excited. Feels more like the Parcells era than Campo or Garrett.
    kskboys likes this.
  5. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Moderator

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    It's a process...
  6. Hennessy_King

    Hennessy_King Well-Known Member

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    Its nonsense every coach has a system. But some players are good enough where you can create wrinkles in your scheme to make it pay off
    kskboys, Bullflop, 817Gill and 5 others like this.
  7. Dre11

    Dre11 Well-Known Member

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  8. Dre11

    Dre11 Well-Known Member

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    MCcarthy said that in his introductory press conference
  9. Kolemmitt

    Kolemmitt Well-Known Member

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    At the level I coach at, every coach has their scheme, but there are coaches that do the same exact same thing, year after year, no matter the opponent, no matter the talent and then there are those that say, "This is my scheme, but if I will change it up a bit (or a lot) to fit my talent or to match the opponent we are playing.
    To an extent, I think its the same thing in the NFL.
    Bullflop, 817Gill, 408Cowboy and 2 others like this.
  10. Nova

    Nova Ntegrase96

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    It’s probably a priority thing.

    Take the best player, but if it’s close between two guys, take the one that fits your scheme better

    I think the point is to not outsmart yourself and say something like “TJ Watt is good, but he’s not a hand in the dirt guy. Let’s take Charlton”
    TheHerd, Bullflop, fredp22 and 3 others like this.
  11. sean10mm

    sean10mm Well-Known Member

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    1. All coaches have preferences for what kinds of player they like by position.
    2. You can't always get what you want.
    3. What do you do then?
    Richard Seymor and Vince Wilfork were Belichick's ultimate prototype 3-4 front players. But what did he do when he couldn't get players like that? He didn't stick to the 3-4, he went back to the 4-3. Belichick has endless examples like this.

    Most coaches aren't like this. They only know one system on defense or offense, so that's what they do. You see coaches misuse players all the time because they have no plan B if it's week 1 and they have to use a guy with different attributes than what the system calls for. The Eagles made a big move to get Nnamdi Asomugha, a top tier man corner, and then made him play tons of zone and he (and the defense) suffered for it.
    Bullflop and Hennessy_King like this.
  12. Hennessy_King

    Hennessy_King Well-Known Member

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    100% fact. Bill is amazing at making adjustments and playing the matchups week to week
    Bullflop and DakPresgoat like this.
  13. cowboyec

    cowboyec Well-Known Member

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    in the end...they like what they like.
    Robbieac likes this.
  14. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is a serious question.

    I think we all know that when McClay and Stephen Jones referenced the McCarthy's comments about players over scheme that they were referencing Marinelli and the DLine.
    - Marinelli wanted quick twitch over size at DT (He loved Hill because he was quicker than other DTs. Marinelli didn't really care about anything else for a DT draft prospect).
    - Marinelli wanted length at DE (Taco over Watt).
    - Marinelli wanted a quick 1tech even if he was undersized.

    - McClay's comment was likely a reference to the skills they think CBs need in the modern big WR era.
    - They obviously put a strong emphasis on the ability to play the ball in the air (i.e. Ball Skills).
    - Those traits are not really scheme specific.
    Bullflop, dreghorn2, Proof and 5 others like this.
  15. DakPresgoat

    DakPresgoat Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Size and length aren’t really scheme specific player traits either.
    Bullflop, Proof and 817Gill like this.
  16. RGV_C_Los

    RGV_C_Los Well-Known Member

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    shhhhhh he’s trying to confuse the opposition :cool:
    Bullflop and Risen Star like this.
  17. Dre11

    Dre11 Well-Known Member

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    What Level?
  18. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Oh, no. Captain Copy&Paste doesn't think I'm serious.

    When McCarthy talked about talent over scheme at his introductory press conference he wasn't referring only to the DL. When he told the great Will McClay "players over scheme" he wasn't talking about DL only. This was a general overall philosophy for the team. Go back and listen to Fat Mike at his presser and then tell me he's only taking about the DL. He's not.

    But yet all our corner additions are the same. These aren't can play any scheme players nonsense. They are physical long press cornerbacks.

    It's just confusing when you hear how you need to just focus on talent when acquiring players and then hear McClay say Robinson was his pet cat because he fits so well.

    Everyone should fit in a player over scheme system. That's the point of it.
    black label, Diehardblues and 75boyz like this.
  19. Outlaw Heroes

    Outlaw Heroes Well-Known Member

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    McClay was talking nonsense. It's obvious that the team drafted corners who excel in press man because Nolan does a lot of blitzing. But it's exactly the type of happy-making lie (a.k.a. propaganda) that fans are eager to lap up.
  20. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

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    I guess there is a clear preference at corner where they have come out and said they want long press corners. That's what they went out and got. Doesn't matter to me as long as they have a propensity towards creating turn overs.
    Bullflop likes this.

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