A True 46 defense is our best option

[blindzebra]

I will never understand how people cannot understand that the #1 ingredient for success is to have talented players to work with.

Coaching matters. Of course it does. Never said it didn't. A team of Lynn Scotts is not going to beat a team of Darren Woodsons with coaching at this level.

Schemes can create matchup problems but in and of themselves they cannot make one cent worth of difference without the players to run the scheme. Our team is proof of that. We acquired the personnel this year to make a switch. If the scheme made any difference at all without the personnel it wouldn't have required 3 years to do given a Hall of Fame Head Coach is in the driver's seat.

Teams can struggle in any scheme. The reason is simple. If they don't have good personnel the other team is going to exploit it. That's a fact and no amount of spin control can refute it.

I agree, we tried to use some 3-4 last year it caused one forced timeout, hardly earth shattering.

I can't wait for the comments after the season.

If the defense improves it's all because of the increase in the 3-4.

If it doesn't it's Zimmer's fault, too much 4-3 got played, but it won't be the magical scheme's fault.

Bellichick was not a scheme master in Cleveland, hmmm.

Buddy Ryan had one of the greatest defenses ever in Chicago with Dent, Singletary and company, a rock solid defense in Philly, of course he had one of the best front fours in NFL history too, then he went to AZ and well...

Tom Landry, one of the best strategists ever, had his team fall apart after a cycle of terrible drafts.

One word, PERSONNEL.

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken stuff even if you are a gourmet chef.

 

[Zaxor]

I agree, we tried to use some 3-4 last year it caused one forced timeout, hardly earth shattering.

I can't wait for the comments after the season.

If the defense improves it's all because of the increase in the 3-4.

If it doesn't it's Zimmer's fault, too much 4-3 got played, but it won't be the magical scheme's fault.

Bellichick was not a scheme master in Cleveland, hmmm.

Buddy Ryan had one of the greatest defenses ever in Chicago with Dent, Singletary and company, a rock solid defense in Philly, of course he had one of the best front fours in NFL history too, then he went to AZ and well...

Tom Landry, one of the best strategists ever, had his team fall apart after a cycle of terrible drafts.

One word, PERSONNEL.

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken stuff even if you are a gourmet chef.

I agree with decent personnel most schemes work brilliantly

 

[Cowboys&Caps]

Bellicheck is a true Hall of Famer - 5 Super Bowl rings. He can scheme up a team and has. Wins with Earth Wind and Fire at CB, Injuries all over plugs players into his system and wins. Won without Seymour in playoffs last year.... Chattam at LB on and on. Yes players are important but coaching and schemes are a critical factor.

Coaching truly matters but thats just me.

yea your right Bellicheck truely has sub par talent in New England, its all him his players are no better than in San Fransisco

 

[Chocolate Lab]

This quote was from Bum Phillips on Don Shula. The exact quote is as follows?

"He can take his'n and beat your'n or he can take your'n and beat his'n."

Got to love ol' Bum... He had one of the funniest lines in history when asked why he took his wife on all the team's road trips:

"Because she is too damn ugly to kiss good bye."

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Got to love ol' Bum... He had one of the funniest lines in history when asked why he took his wife on all the team's road trips:

"Because she is too damn ugly to kiss good bye."

LOL!!!!

I hadn't heard that one.

 

[Nors]

yea your right Bellicheck truely has sub par talent in New England, its all him his players are no better than in San Fransisco

Good coaches and scheming make their players better. Look at what he got out of his 2001 team. He plugs in guys like Earthwind Morris, Chattam, Izzo, Ashmore, Compton right on down the line and no beat is missed.

We will not be deploying the 46 in Dallas in 2005. Base 3-4 and some 4-3 looks. Canty, Ferguson, Ware, Burnett, Ratliff! Yeagh baby! New 3-4 player party in Big D!!!!!!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Good coaches and scheming make their players better. Look at what he got out of his 2001 team. He plugs in guys like Earthwind Morris, Chattam, Izzo, Ashmore, Compton right on down the line and no beat is missed.

We will not be deploying the 46 in Dallas in 2005. Base 3-4 and some 4-3 looks. Canty, Ferguson, Ware, Burnett, Ratliff! Yeagh baby! New 3-4 player party in Big D!!!!!!

To this day, I have still seen nothing that says we will be playing a 34 base.

 

[Cowboys&Caps]

Good coaches and scheming make their players better. Look at what he got out of his 2001 team. He plugs in guys like Earthwind Morris, Chattam, Izzo, Ashmore, Compton right on down the line and no beat is missed.

...you left out this

top 5 offensive line in the league
corey Dillon-carried them in the Super Bowl
top 3 Quarterback in league
top 5 defensive line in league
solid smart expierienced linebackers
top 5 safety in league
great TE play in Fauria,Graham
top 5 WR corp in league, very experienced, playmakers

yes he has a very good scheme but i have no doubt his players make his scemes look better.

your right he is a good coach...especially when it comes to having competent depth.but its great individual one-on-one coaching not so much scheme

 

[blindzebra]

To this day, I have still seen nothing that says we will be playing a 34 base.

But the signs are there ABQ.

Ferguson a NT...of course our 4-3 base uses a NT, too.

The draft...of course only Canty played 3-4 in college.

Mini-camps we played 85% 3-4...of course the fact that over 95% of our roster has not played the 3-4 at the NFL level and our coaches have a good idea what they can do in a 4-3 has nothing to do with it.

 

[Cowboys&Caps]

we now have the tools to play almost any defensive formation that we want to so its kinda a moot point, Zimmer will look really good or really bad by week 17 or perhaps really really good by week 22

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But the signs are there ABQ.

Ferguson a NT...of course our 4-3 base uses a NT, too.

The draft...of course only Canty played 3-4 in college.

Mini-camps we played 85% 3-4...of course the fact that over 95% of our roster has not played the 3-4 at the NFL level and our coaches have a good idea what they can do in a 4-3 has nothing to do with it.

"You are traveling through another dimension, a deminsion not of sight or sound or mind. That's the signpost up ahead: You Are Now Entering The Twilight Zone."

Norish to English translation for: "We will not be deploying the 46 in Dallas in 2005. Base 3-4 and some 4-3 looks. Canty, Ferguson, Ware, Burnett, Ratliff! Yeagh baby! New 3-4 player party in Big D!!!!!!"

 

[Hostile]

Good coaches and scheming make their players better. Look at what he got out of his 2001 team. He plugs in guys like Earthwind Morris, Chattam, Izzo, Ashmore, Compton right on down the line and no beat is missed.

We will not be deploying the 46 in Dallas in 2005. Base 3-4 and some 4-3 looks. Canty, Ferguson, Ware, Burnett, Ratliff! Yeagh baby! New 3-4 player party in Big D!!!!!!

I agree with the bolded part. The scheme does not make players better.

Nors, if a scheme was superior every team would run it. Every single blessed one of them.

It takes personnel to make a scheme superior. Period.

In other words, LT, Carl banks, harry Carson, Leonard Marshall, et al made the Giants 3-4 what it was. Take LT out of that squad and that was a pedestrian group who would have struggled. With him and the complimenting parts they were hard to deal with.

Schemes are just the vehicles. Players still drive the machine.

 

[SuspectCorner]

does the soon-to-be 65 year-old parcells have ANY history of running a "46" defense?

file this discussion under N... as in "Not Bloody Likely".

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

does the soon-to-be 65 year-old parcells have ANY history of running a "46" defense?

file this discussion under N... as in "Not Bloody Likely".

No, he has no clue of what a 0 Cov.... auhh...... I mean 46 is. He never coached against Buddy Ryan or anything.

 

[SuspectCorner]

No, he has no clue of what a 0 Cov.... auhh...... I mean 46 is. He never coached against Buddy Ryan or anything.

doesn't matter that he coached against it. you can defense or attack any formation in the history of football despite its running contrary to your OWN philosophy.

name a time or place parcells ran a "46".

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

doesn't matter that he coached against it. you can defense or attack any formation in the history of football despite its running contrary to your OWN philosophy.

name a time or place parcells ran a "46".

Let me just make the point that you could make the same arguments on a 43. Parcells always like the 34 before he got to Dallas. The truth of this matter is that nobody really knows what we will do. Nobody thought Parcells would stick with what we had for two seasons. People are still wondering why in the world we would run a 34 rather then a 43 now.

It's the off season. Most here know that a 46 is probably not in the cards. Still, it's the off season and it's something to talk about.

When the regular season comes, I'll be sure to ping the reality police and calm things down around here.

 

[SuspectCorner]

Let me just make the point that you could make the same arguments on a 43. Parcells always like the 34 before he got to Dallas. The truth of this matter is that nobody really knows what we will do. Nobody thought Parcells would stick with what we had for two seasons. People are still wondering why in the world we would run a 34 rather then a 43 now.

It's the off season. Most here know that a 46 is probably not in the cards. Still, it's the off season and it's something to talk about.

When the regular season comes, I'll be sure to ping the reality police and calm things down around here.

the board is for entertainment purposes, too.

and if it entertains you to argue the likelihood of the "46" in dallas... well, please do. however, you'll have to pardon my extreme skepticism when i consider the scenario. i don't feel i was overly harsh in my assessment. i'm certain i said what i really thought.

so, now you've expressed your opinion and i have expressed mine. all is as it should be.

 

[dwmyers]

My ought two on all this is that I don't know enough about the 46 to make any kind of intelligent comments.

So I went ahead and I bought Rex Ryan's book. I'll take a gander at it, and after I've actually read a good chunk of the danged thing, then I'll be prepared to tell you what I think.

My two cent uninformed opinion is that you can play it straight (i.e. 6 man pressure, a de facto 2 linebackers, and man coverage everywhere), or you can play it as if it were a perpetual zone blitz (certain players fall off the line to play short zones). If the Det Lions diagram is actually a typical formation, you'll need powerful 2 gap tackles to make it work, probably 2 of them, and your strongside end had better be really fast, because he's outside the TE and in a perpetual rush position.

Without pressure and a great line, you're vulnerable to the long pass. Chicago in the mid 1980s had great linemen and great linebackers, they probably could have lined up in most anything and made it work.

I don't see Dallas playing the 46 as a base look. I think that if Zimmer is allowed to gamble still, we'll see blitz looks that resemble this kind of formation maybe 3-10 times a game.

David.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, I'm happy you feel better that we've all exposed ourselves now.

We live for your entertainment, as you know. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Well, I'm happy you feel better that we've all exposed ourselves now.

We live for your entertainment, as you know. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance.

So what have you been exposing ABQ?